A question for people that run 3+ Scorches

[altaybek]

A question for people that run 3+ Scorches

How many times in, let's say, 10 games Gigni, Scorch, Villen and Renewed Gigni together do make you win the game or lose? Is it worth spending all those precious golds for just one double-edged mechanic? If it's worth isn't it kinda broken to have so much strong removals?

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

They are strong, but they have hardly any synergy in a normal deck. So there are other golds, which are better for specific archetypes.
And there are situations where there aren't many targets, because you already removed most.

 

[4RM3D]

Ah, I miss the good old days. Scorch, like Hailstorm, has diminishing returns, so running too many would be overkill. I haven't actually seen players use more than one Scorch, let alone two or more.

Like you've said, it's a double-edged sword. Igni is pretty safe, but doesn't always find value. Personally, I wouldn't run more than two, even in control decks. Also, for completion's sake, you forgot to mention Schirru.

 

[altaybek]

the good old days..

What a time to be alive! But they (aglais, etihne, schirru) are faction specific so you are limited to just a mere 4 scorch for others. Control freak Radovid players tend to use 2+ scorch the most.

Can't complain about villen or gigni because they need proper setup and gold cards and i respect that. Silver scorch seems too much sometimes. Removing a "s" from "units" word in card description would balance it imho. Then it would be a proper silver instead of a gold in silver coating.

 

[4RM3D]

Then it would be a proper silver instead of a gold in silver coating.

I strongly disagree. Scorch is fine as it is and there are even tactics trying to hit as many high strength units as possible to maximize the value of Scorch in the same way Hailstorm was used on row-stacking units. The reason Scorch is fine is because it's a double-edged sword. If you would limit Scorch to only one target, then Artefact Compression is almost always better.

 

[altaybek]

If you would limit Scorch to only one target, then Artefact Compression is almost always better.

Occasionally AC is already better and i prefer it more tbh. (Especially against recently popular strenghten crazy SK decks per se). The problem with Scorch is it hits any highest enemy on any row and can be instaplayed.

Gold:

You have to wait 3 turns for Villen and hope your enemy doesn't lock it, destroy it or put a high unit on your side during those 3 turns (commander's horn, thunderbolt pot, alzur their own unit, letho, spy etc..)for maximum value. Needs timing and good setup.
You need to rowstack your enemy (or make them rowstack themselves) somehow to get maximum (or any) value for Gigni. Needs luck and rowstacking.

Silver:

You just need to pop Scorch after evening out the highest units on any row with Myrta or machines or anything that damages which is possible in 1 turn or max 2 turns.

It needs some tweak. Maybe playing from graveyard like Wolfsbane with a 2 turn counter while it "charges". It's just unfair to those Gold cards that a silver just can insta use their main ability.

 

[Skryba86]

Villen brings a big body with his scorch, so he's automatically always good value, even if the scorch doesn't trigger anything.

Gigni only burns your opponent, so it has zero chance of blowing up in your face. And it also carries a body, albeit small.

Scorch, on the other hand, can easily become a dead card in your hand (with negative value at that, not only 0) if drawn at the wrong time or played around by your opponent.

They seem perfectly balanced to me.

 

[Draconifors]

I agree that the scorch effect cards are fine and balanced at the moment.

Igni has rarely gotten good value in the games I've played this patch, and Scorch can indeed become a dead card quite easily.
Villentretenmerth I suppose could have some intimidation value, but is even less reliable than Scorch due to having a timer and several counters.

All in all, those cards are well worth it when they work - but sometimes they don't seem to really work in several games in a row.
As for running both Igni and Villentretenmerth (or either of those plus Schírru), I'd say that often is a waste of a gold slot.

 

[Ruthless95]

scorch, igni, borkh, aglias scorch, ethnie scorch, shirru... good old days.
this tactic is not prevalent anymore.

 

[altaybek]

Villen brings a big body with his scorch

If you think 8 point body is big, you should wash your face and sober up. Even Triss is a 8 point body with a total 13 point play %90 of times. Many locking units bring more than 8 point play that can nullify Villen's 8 points. (except D Shackle, Margarita and Auckes)

Gigni is ok. It's a high risk/high reward card. It can be totally useless or it can be devastating.

You are missing my point. Even GOLD cards need 3 turns or a properly buffed row to use the ability but a neutral SILVER card achieves this INSTANTLY without any row restrictions. That's not balanced.

If i were Villentretenmerth, I would go on a strike with all my dragon buddies in front of CDPR building.

 

[Skryba86]

Lol you have to look at the potential value for villen. He automatically brings an 8 body to the table, with potential to burn 12+ easily from your opponent's side. That's a 20 point gold if not played around and can escalate further.

Do I think villen should be buffed? Yes I do, but it's also a tricky card to balance in its state.

Does that mean scorch is overtuned? No it does not.

 

[Lornick77]

If you think 8 point body is big, you should wash your face and sober up. Even Triss is a 8 point body with a total 13 point play %90 of times. Many locking units bring more than 8 point play that can nullify Villen's 8 points. (except D Shackle, Margarita and Auckes)

Gigni is ok. It's a high risk/high reward card. It can be totally useless or it can be devastating.

You are missing my point. Even GOLD cards need 3 turns or a properly buffed row to use the ability but a neutral SILVER card achieves this INSTANTLY without any row restrictions. That's not balanced.

If i were Villentretenmerth, I would go on a strike with all my dragon buddies in front of CDPR building.

Then run scorch in every deck and win every game if it's that overpowered. I personally disagree. I pretty much stopped using scorch some time ago. There are so many high value silver cards that have deck synergy that I just don't have room in my decks for a highly situational card. And that is the thing that you seem to be missing in your card analysis. It is a situational card. For instance, it's round 3 and both you and your opponent used all cards in round 2. The game is decided by a single card and since you won round 2, you have to go first. Your first draw is less that ideal so you mulligan into scorch. Guess what? You lose. Scorch has precisely 0 value in that situation. Alternate situation: Your opponent plays a high power silver unit spy and draws a card. You now have the highest power unit on the board, your opponent has card advantage, and you have a dead card in hand. The only way to "fix" this situation is pray your opponent plays a higher power creature (not likely and hoping your opponent does something that helps you is never good strategy), damage the spy unit to lower it's power (and thus lose opportunity to damage an opposing creature), or buff an opposing creature to make it higher than the silver spy (and thus cost you card disadvantage by not buffing your own unit), or concede the round (and potentially the game if you already lost a round). None of those are good options. None of these are fairlyland situations either. Putting scorch in your deck can and will occasionally bite you in the butt. Sometimes you'll get that miracle opportunity to scorch 2 or more units for 10+ value each though. But that is the point entirely. It is a situational card. That is part of it's "cost" when evaluating it. IMHO, scorch is fine as is.

 

[Rawls]

I used to run a scorch deck several patches ago pretty effectively with Scoia'tael, but I think as others have said having more than 2-3 at the most doesn't make sense in the current iteration of the game. Borhk isn't worth playing IMO currently (which makes me sad since he's such a awesome looking premium card I have).

 

[Yykkla]

I wish Villentretenmerth was useful...he's got such cool artwork, and a catchy name. Any card with a timer in the current game iteration is far too easy to work around though.

Even a single Scorch can be a dead card and in some cases, it's inferior to Artefact Compression - which is effectively a banishment whereas Scorch sends it to their graveyard, which can favour Skellige decks for example. Running multiple Scorches is probably not a good idea similar to why Dudu is so played so little - it evens out a large threat, but doesn't actually gain you any presence.

 

[4RM3D]

and a catchy name

Viletrickymess
Villaintradesmeth

:thinking:
Vilentertemerf
Villentrotaman
Villentreatsmen

:huh:

Nope, too difficult. Can't we just call him VTM? I usually call him Villenmethingy.

*inserts Benedict Cumberbatch name meme*

 

[Rawls]

I usually call him Villenmethingy.

I personally like Borhk or Villewhatever.

 

[altaybek]

Can't we just call him VTM?

nonononono just use a deep voice and get a serious face when saying it. Think about Christopher Lee versing a black magic spell in the middle of a pentagram while a hot naked virgin hangs on an inverted cross.

It's cool until you remember it just means Three Black Birdies.

 

[devivre]

Not sure I'd use Renew in a deck with Villy and Gigni (might be too situational). But I guess ST has better ways for a third and fourth scorch
Two times Scorch seems enough to me though.

 

[TheShift]

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[Void_Singer]

How many times in, let's say, 10 games Gigni, Scorch, Villen and Renewed Gigni together do make you win the game or lose? Is it worth spending all those precious golds for just one double-edged mechanic? If it's worth isn't it kinda broken to have so much strong removals?

it's meta dependent.... when most people are playing tall creatures, 3+ (even pure) is worth it, if only for the draw odds... but only if you play a short critter deck.

in SC it's particularly powerful because Schiru can also go low with epidemic, coupled with Ethine that's 2 either way for the price of a gold, add in actual Scorch for 3 and only costs a silver more. the same works in NG via Scorch + Yenn + Emhyr, and Yenn can dupe other spells too. in either one of even if scorch itself is 100% dead the rest can be forked to other things. add Renew (and Cahir) and/or Uma's for more, but at gold cost each so probably not worthwhile...

...other factions aren't so lucky, costing a gold per replay with reduced benefit (Villen / Igni)