How Can You Please Everyone?

[gards]

How Can You Please Everyone?

Regarding faction choice. I'm very low level indeed, can barely win against new/old players and their god damn youtube decks. I can cover one faction but 2/3? GTFO! For me, GWENT has run it's course. The internet has taken over. New players and for that matter, ALL players are doing this. If I go on ranked with my non meta ST deck. Lose.

So freezeframe this moment. GWENT is't a viable game to invest time into unless you are copying youtube decks.

That's not a game. It's not the devs fault. Literally any online game is full of unpleasant people. I hate online games but I do like GWENT, For what it is or was. Same thing happened to DayZ (internet hackers or just general cheating/BS. All online games Seem to have the same problem, because it's humans against humans who cheat.

I look forward to Thronebreaker but I will not be returning to "ranked" anytime soon. The decks at rank 8 are simliar to rank 20. That should NOT happen.

 

[4RM3D]

It was your own choice to only play ST till the bitter end. It was also your choice not to play Spell'Tael or, presumably, an actual viable deck. You have limited yourself a lot by doing this. And while what you have said, does hold some truth to it, you're experience could still have been a lot better by being a little bit more flexible.

From my personal experience, I do want to give an example. I am playing a Foltest Swarm deck (26 cards). And while I wager I cannot break through the top ranks with it, it has still given me a 90% win-rate on the journey to rank 15. NR is not really meta right now and my deck variance is also different. Where I'm going with this is that you can still have your own deck up to a certain rank. However, you have to adapt to the situation and that could mean switching factions or create an anti-meta deck.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Learning decks online is simply not cheating. Did you expect people to only ever make their own decks? If that is what you thought then your expectations were far off from reality.

 

[Jesting-Jack]

Just because someone is playing the meta doesn't necessarily mean they copied their decks from Youtube. For instance, I never watch streamers because it's not my thing but if a player beats me, I think to myself "You know what, that deck seems pretty effective", so then I recall what cards that players used and copy his deck and use it in the next match. Maybe I'll add my own tweaks to it too.

Copying each other's decks is part of the game, it's like an arms race if you will. If you want to win, you have to adapt your deck to what others are playing.

 

[m0bius8]

As the old saying goes 'If you can't beat em, join em!' Personally, I look up a deck that appeals to me and then make changes of my own to as I see fit. The highest rank I've hit is 19 and you know what, I'm happy with it. The rewards are aplenty and most importantly it keeps me entertained. Besides, it's perfectly fine to stick with Casual as long as you're have fun.

 

[gards]

Learning decks online is simply not cheating. Did you expect people to only ever make their own decks? If that is what you thought then your expectations were far off from reality.

I honestly did. I come from a creative background (music). My point was it doesn't matter what game you play. If it's an online game you will get OWNED haha You know, the FPS games the survival genre..same result.The game is not at fault here. 4RMD i right, I did stick to my guns, refused to play anything other than ST.

People that are new to the game should not have access to powerful cards.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I honestly did. I come from a creative background (music). My point was it doesn't matter what game you play. If it's an online game you will get OWNED haha You know, the FPS games the survival genre..same result.The game is not at fault here. 4RMD i right, I did stick to my guns, refused to play anything other than ST.

People that are new to the game should not have access to powerful cards.

I am really not following your reasoning.

I do want to respond to your last sentence there. What do you mean that new players shoudn't have access to powerful cards? Any new player could A) Spend real money to get the cards they need or B) Mill other factions to get the cards they need.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Just because someone is playing the meta doesn't necessarily mean they copied their decks from Youtube. For instance, I never watch streamers because it's not my thing but if a player beats me, I think to myself "You know what, that deck seems pretty effective", so then I recall what cards that players used and copy his deck and use it in the next match. Maybe I'll add my own tweaks to it too.

Copying each other's decks is part of the game, it's like an arms race if you will. If you want to win, you have to adapt your deck to what others are playing.

100% true. People will copy the best decks whether they look at them online or not. People complaining constantly of "net decks" really baffle me.

 

[lemonsplitter]

It’s just absurd that it seems some people want a Win Only game. Gwentmasters Twitter is posting intro cards summarizing each Tournament competitor with win rate included. Nobody gets higher than 70%! I’m tempted to all cap that just to emphasize that nobody, not even the top of the ladder, has a higher win rate than 70%.

Shoud the concept of good sportsmanship and accepting losses be added to the next patch notes? Smh.

 

[nemirni]

The internet has taken over

Evil thing that internet.

People that are new to the game should not have access to powerful cards.

Indeed. They should also be capped at having only 2 golds per deck and 4 silvers. Non Premium of course.
In fact they should auto forfeit against anyone who has a Pioneer rank. Shame to waste the time of the venerable aristocracy...

 

[DRK3]

Actually, the fact that better cards got more accessible made the game a whole lot more fair.

I know for sure that my winrate on closed beta was better, and one of the main reasons was because i played way more than the average player and had Legendaries most hadnt even seen before.

When they made the whole silver = epic and gold = legendary, and increased the amount of scraps you were able to get, the players who played more / paid real money stopped having a real advantage, and that's ok.

 

[Jurus331]

There's nothing stopping you from playing Casual where meta decks are the exception, not the rule.

In Ranked only wins matter and you get punished for losing, especially at higher levels. So of course people will play with the decks that gives them the best chance at winning. Which gets boring. That's why after reaching lvl 19, when progression gets gimped, I just play Casual for fun with my various non-competitive decks

 

[lemonsplitter]

Also can we underscore the fact that learning how to play a game by watching others or listening to their tips isn’t “cheating”?

And someone having a better card than yours isn’t “cheating”.

If the time is taken to check out the deck lists from the last Gwentslam

http://www.gwentdb.com/news/203-gwentslam-2-results-top-4-decklists

All varied, none with 100% win rates, some even using Starter Deck cards like Scorch and Decoy.

It really isn’t about having perfect cards or a perfect deck, that doesn’t happen. Skill is also involved, especially the skill to make the best of some less than optimal draws.

Learning is part of the fun with Gwent. It isn’t point and click or memorize one strategy or combo. Changes roll out every patch and the game changes a bit, leveling things out a bit for both veteran and new players. Even a loss can be considered an opportunity to learn something new.

 

[gards]

Would you say that right now. Any faction is capable beating another one in ranked?

 

[ZenaRose]

Blaming netdecking in 2017 is not very smart thing. Every online game is overrun with netdeckers/meta builds.
There is no place for new players to play competive games with their own custom stupid decks.
I play in top 200 with my custom decks though, but this requires to know meta copypasted decks and game mechanics

 

[4RM3D]

There's nothing stopping you from playing Casual where meta decks are the exception, not the rule.

Eh, I wish that were true, but I am facing more netdecks in casual than I am in ranked, ironically. I hate to admit it, but since the latest patch, something is off with casual. Not sure what, though.

All varied, none with 100% win rates, some even using Starter Deck cards like Scorch and Decoy.

You are saying it like starter cards are automatically bad; they aren't. Case in point, Royal Decree, Cahir, etc...

Would you say that right now. Any faction is capable beating another one in ranked?

Assuming that every faction plays one of their strongest decks, then definitely.

 

[busterginger]

If you don't mind messing up your stats and you want to continuously win for a while just lost a bunch of times on purpose, then you will get a long string of actual playable opponents (works in ranked especially) where you can not only get back the points you lose quickly but get a better chance of ranking up. Some may say "If you can't beat em join em" Or you can waste loads of time researching better decks or skills, or just actually mess with the statistics directly, pass and pass and pass until you get matches that matter.

I've been told man times that level and titles don't matter but that's absolute balderdash. If you're level 100 or have a master title it means you've been playing for a while, have built up your decks and are playing ranked now to get more rewards. Even if you're the same rank, you're playing a powerhouse, will probably lose so just give them the win. So, whoever said it doesn't matter (a lot of the moderators on here surprisingly) are dead wrong. Just pass to win.

Not fair? Too bad. Like the option to forfeit, it's a part of the game and it's not fair.

Let's start talking about that? Please everyone? why?

 

[lemonsplitter]

You are saying it like starter cards are automatically bad; they aren't. Case in point, Royal Decree....

Actually you are saying that I implied that when I didn’t. My point was that there obviously are strong cards in the Starter Decks, since the pros are still using them.

So let’s break it down, back to the original points of the poster of the topic, which were beginners shouldn’t have strong cards, yet somehow paradoxically beginners cannot win unless they netdeck and buy kegs, implying all beginners who do so are “cheating”.

My point, which apparently wasn’t spelled out enough to prevent people from accusing me of saying things which I did not say, was supported by the statistics of the top competitors and the variations of their lists, which all contain cards accessible to beginners.

And for those of you who seem to think, or want to think, that I share the same sense of unrealistic outrage as the original poster about any aspect of this game, I do not. I enjoy the game and am looking forward to the upcoming new content. That enjoyment does not always directly transfer to the people I deal with in order to play it, however.

As far as faction win rates go, the last statistically compiled data shows the Dagon deck still going strong season after season, with SK and NG following close behind. NR and St received some heavy nerfs and drastic changes which seemed to weaken some of their mechanics. Despite that, no faction has a 100% win rate.

 

[SigilFey]

I think CDPR has gone to great lengths to make the game as accessible as possible to beginners while also giving higher tiers something to strive for. Kind of a fine line to walk, and let's not forget that this is still a beta. The way I see it, games like this can go one of two ways: D&D or Dark Souls.

In D&D style, you start with a rusty dagger, a barrel lid, and damage-resistant underwear. Your gear sucks. You have to steadily accrue better gear as you play...or you will lose. A level 1 character in chain mail underoos simply cannot defeat a Level 10 Orc Warlord with a mace the size of your thigh -- you lose. Viciously. (Card games like this would be like Magic or Yu-Gi-Oh. You need to get those better cards if you ever want to beat the higher tier decks. Period. [Simple, direct, and effective. And CCGs were born.])

In Dark Souls style, that rusty dagger you start with can be used right up until the endgame. Your leather loincloth +1 doesn't just block a tiny amount of damage, it also leaves you incredibly mobile. Every single item has its own strengths and weaknesses -- there is no "best weapon". There is some level of progression with gear, so players have something to strive for, but "higher / lower stats" do not directly translate into "win / lose". Despite all this horizontal freedom, however, it's still possible to generate an inefficient build. If I develop a character that's based on fast movement and rapid attacks, then choose one of the slowest and heaviest weapons in the game...I'll lose almost every time. (And here we have Gwent and Hearthstone and the like [because I know there must be others out there.] More refined approach, less linear and more organic, but also much more complex and hard to wrap one's head around sometimes.)

So how does Gwent create 100% balance across the board, ensuring every deck that seems viable actually delivers on that promise? How does it please everyone? It doesn't. Neither does D&D or Dark Souls. It can create a warehouse of options...but eventually you'll get through the entire inventory and start realizing there's no room on the shelves for more options. You've hit the wall. Whenever you get there, that's a great sign to try a different approach.

The net-decking thing is also a far cry from cheating. It's exactly the same as a strategy guide or walkthrough. I do understand that playing against the "same thing" all the time can become real drudgery, but I don't think it's possible to completely avoid it. Many people simply do what works. Nature of the game. In that regard, some players may simply decide that this type of game is just not their thing. (Can't please everyone! )

 

[4RM3D]

I've been told man times that level and titles don't matter but that's absolute balderdash. [...] So, whoever said it doesn't matter (a lot of the moderators on here surprisingly) are dead wrong.

I don't know about the others, but I have said that level and (sometimes even) rank does not equal skills. Actually, I should have expanded on that by saying it doesn't automatically mean you will lose, which was implied. There is a correlation between it, that you'll find better opponents in higher levels/ranks. Yes, it still matters. However, it isn't the end all some players think it is because there are many other circumstantial win-conditions, like:

• The opponent has to go first.
• The opponent might be trying a new deck.
• The opponent has a bad hand.
• The opponent is playing 'scissors' against your 'rock'.
• The opponent makes a mistake.

I have only played against the top 20 players twice and won both games. That's not because I am a professional, but because they couldn't deal with my deck (and one of them had to go first).