Cards and Combos that Might be(come) too Strong

[4RM3D]

Cards and Combos that Might be(come) too Strong

This thread is meant to look at cards and combos that are either questionable or might become too strong. It's not about demanding a nerf, especially because the cards aren't final yet and because the patch hasn't been released yet. Let's gather some constructive feedback. The two most tricky cards, for me, are Geralt: Yrden and Viper School Witcher.

Geralt: Yrden
Ability: Reset all Units and remove their tokens.
Strong against: all kinds of swarm, buff, spell and spy decks

Viper School Witcher
Ability: Deal 3 Damage. Increase damage dealt by 1 for each Alchemy card in your initial Deck.
Strong combo: having 4 alchemy cards makes for a solid 7 damage sniper + a 7 strength body (rise of Alchemy Nilfgaard)

Peasant Militia
Ability: Fill a row with Peasants.
Assumption: rows will have a unit cap, my guess is about 10.
Strong combo: Kaedweni Siege Support

Saskia: Dragonfire
Ability: Banish your Hand and draw that many cards.
Assumption/Strong combo: Alba Spearmen

Letho: Kingslayer
Ability: Choose One: Destroy an Enemy Leader on the board and set self to 11; or play a Bronze or Silver Tactic from your Deck.
Strong against: Harald and Unseen Elder

EDIT:

Hubert Rejk
Ability: Drain all boosts from units in your deck.
Strong combo: Foltest + 40 card deck (but also risky to use)

 

[BlunderMan]

Yrden sure sounds like it could do crazy damage against a lot of deck types. Maybe just restrict it to one row instead of every unit?

 

[altaybek]

Letho will be complete anti-Elder but I see no other good use for it in current state of leaders (Harald can be removed easily by any faction). Maybe against Ale-buffed Eithne or Fringilla'ed Emyhr. But they can be reset easily so we don't need a specific unit just to remove leaders.

SO,

This probably means ALL leaders will be reworked so that they will have some persistent importance after placed rather than being just a 5-6 point body. Exciting.

 

[4RM3D]

Yrden sure sounds like it could do crazy damage against a lot of deck types. Maybe just restrict it to one row instead of every unit?

One row, both sides. Indeed, that sounds more balanced, while still having the potential of a good power swing.

 

[OG.laloquaint]

I think Viper School Witchers will get the same value as the Swordmasters honestly. They're almost the same card value-wise. Except it's waaaaay easier to use the Witchers. I love them already.

Here's hoping Unseen Elder gets changed.

 

[Iuliandrei]

This probably means ALL leaders will be reworked so that they will have some persistent importance after placed rather than being just a 5-6 point body. Exciting.

It would be interesting although not necessarily, these points are there to offset the power difference between their abilities. Also Letho can find value regardless because if the leader is too low STR you could choose the tactic option.

 

[alexmanelistu]

It would be interesting if they would implement witchers for other schools.

 

[altaybek]

It would be interesting although not necessarily, these points are there to offset the power difference between their abilities. Also Letho can find value regardless because if the leader is too low STR you could choose the tactic option.

Well, more than 16-17 point control play is possible with many bronzes already. Limiting it as "leaders" surely makes no sense as of now. In this state, Kingslayer is just a buffed (literally) Triss. We'll wait and see the changes.

 

[SrdjanB]

This thread is meant to look at cards and combos that are either questionable or might become too strong. It's not about demanding a nerf, especially because the cards aren't final yet and because the patch hasn't been released yet. Let's gather some constructive feedback. The two most tricky cards, for me, are Geralt: Yrden and Viper School Witcher.

Geralt: Yrden
Ability: Reset all Units and remove their tokens.
Strong against: all kinds of swarm, buff, spell and spy decks

Viper School Witcher
Ability: Deal 3 Damage. Increase damage dealt by 1 for each Alchemy card in your initial Deck.
Strong combo: having 4 alchemy cards makes for a solid 7 damage sniper + a 7 strength body (rise of Alchemy Nilfgaard)

Peasant Militia
Ability: Fill a row with Peasants.
Assumption: rows will have a unit cap, my guess is about 10.
Strong combo: Kaedweni Siege Support

Saskia: Dragonfire
Ability: Banish your Hand and draw that many cards.
Assumption/Strong combo: Alba Spearmen

Letho: Kingslayer
Ability: Choose One: Destroy an Enemy Leader on the board and set self to 11; or play a Bronze or Silver Tactic from your Deck.
Strong against: Harald and Unseen Elder

Geralt Yrden, seems like Skellige finally got the perfect card for that dreadful forth slot, can't wait to plant him in Veteran deck.

Viper Witcher, Alchemy Nilfgaard will now be viable and have strong target removal which are both great things, but I doubt VSW will be that overpowered

Peasants, I doubt we will have row limits, it would fuck up the swarm tactic really badly, my guess is they will make it summon concrete number of peasants, 7-10

Saskia Dragonfire, excellent idea, run 40 card Nilfgaard, reverse mulligan all the good cards, let it all burn and have like 15 str Alba Spearman, which now that I think of it is not that good of a combo but interesting one at least.

Letho Kingslayer, really flexible card that will by my account be just right in some hybrid Nilf deck with Tactics, because no one will run him just for leader kill, it will is great backup value min 13 and frequently 18, plus you get to disable Harald who will see some play with Derran now. Unseen will get Immune you can bet on that, so that combo falls through.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

Winch with Field Medic and Henselt. Creating with a lot of luck 3 times the same siege machine, which you already have in your deck and then field medic or Neneke them back into your deck, just to pull 5 out at once with Henselt.

 

[DRK3]

I agree with the OP's first 3 cards, those might be way too powerful if they work as assumed here.

But Letho Kingslayer doesnt feel that strong, it actually feels well balanced considering it has 2 options.

And Saskia Dragonfire, will probably work well with Spearmen like you said, however it still seems like a ultra-risk move that might backfire more often than it works. I'll probably use it, but players who like to play it safe will probably avoid it.

 

[DMaster2]

Yrden is the good old Dimeritium Bomb (the first one introduced) on a 5 power stick. Considering that the first d-bomb was literally in every deck i wouldn't be surprised if this version of geralt yrden will be staple in most deck (like muzzle now, except way more devastating for certain decks).
It will also means that buff decks will see zero play (just like it was when original d-bomb was everywhere).

Vipers are too strong. Mahakam Ale is an already borderline OP alchemy card you can play 3x of with novices, allowing you insane tempo swings. Having 3 additional "leo bonhart" available will make the deck annoying to play against.

The rest are fine imho.

 

[lakired]

Vipers are too strong. Mahakam Ale is an already borderline OP alchemy card you can play 3x of with novices, allowing you insane tempo swings. Having 3 additional "leo bonhart" available will make the deck annoying to play against.

When evaluating a card's value it must be done in the context of the deck in which it'll be run. A great recent example of this is the Venendal Elite. It's a completely OP bronze... but reveal as an archetype is sufficiently weak that it's a complete no-show in the current meta. It'll only ever become an issue as the archetype is given the tools to become viable. As of today alchemy NG is basically a non-existent archetype. So a single OP bronze is unlikely to thrust it into prominence. Whether or not it's a broken card will really depend a lot on what other cards are being introduced to NG this patch that synergize with the archetype.

 

[DMaster2]

When evaluating a card's value it must be done in the context of the deck in which it'll be run. A great recent example of this is the Venendal Elite. It's a completely OP bronze... but reveal as an archetype is sufficiently weak that it's a complete no-show in the current meta. It'll only ever become an issue as the archetype is given the tools to become viable. As of today alchemy NG is basically a non-existent archetype. So a single OP bronze is unlikely to thrust it into prominence. Whether or not it's a broken card will really depend a lot on what other cards are being introduced to NG this patch that synergize with the archetype.

Veteran and handbuff decks were also non-existent, yet with a bronze each become tier 1 and tier 2 respectively. People love the elite example but i wonder why they overlook single bronze cards that actually pushed unexistent archetype into the meta...

 

[Bleach25]

I wonder if Germain Will see much play from now on, considering that peasants are bronze cards

 

[twinsbuster]

A single Yrden can destroy many deck archetypes. I'm not sure about this card.

 

[lakired]

Veteran and handbuff decks were also non-existent, yet with a bronze each become tier 1 and tier 2 respectively. People love the elite example but i wonder why they overlook single bronze cards that actually pushed unexistent archetype into the meta...

Handbuff is definitely not T2, and it also benefited from the change to Iorveth. ST as a faction arguably doesn't have a single T2 deck outside of -maybe- Spell. As for Veterans, it shot to prominence thanks to extremely solid existing support for the archetype that was only made "unplayable" previously because it lacked consistency, early tempo, and Bran Restore was simply so much better. The silver and gold support that made/makes Bran Restore so strong is basically the same as what Vet needs to thrive. So when you introduce a card that fills out its bronze list and tutors its core engine cards, while ALSO adding a gold that increases its R1 tempo, its two weaknesses (consistency and early tempo) are effectively fixed. Meanwhile, Bran Restore got dinged with the changes to Restore, losing it a major tempo/carry-over combo, but that change really had no significant impact on vet's game. In fact, the addition of Maiden gave Vet a fantastic Restore target that DID work with its game plan, so the change really didn't hurt them much at all (and effectively saved them versus Aglais).

For NG, their silvers and golds are much more tailored to their existing archetypes (mill, reveal, spies). While there are definitely some solid silvers/golds that an alchemy deck could utilize, they don't specifically synergize with what it wants to accomplish. There also aren't really any existing bronzes that provide the deck's engine. Vic Novice tutors alchemy cards, but outside of that what bronze support is there for the archetype? Vets had its Veterans, Skirmishers, and one of the most universally versatile/powerful bronzes in Harpooners, plus Pirate Captains as an added variant, already in place, it just needed a reliable way to see its Veterans early every match and thin down its deck. Alchemy now has effectively its first "core" bronze. Compare that to say, Reveal, which already had a fully fleshed out archetype with bronze, silver, AND gold support in place... and adding an OP bronze still wasn't sufficient to push it out of the doldrums and into T2. So like I said, whether this card is OP or not rests entirely on what other support is being released for it, because currently it has next to nothing. We'll see.

 

[Khreygond]

This probably means ALL leaders will be reworked so that they will have some persistent importance after placed rather than being just a 5-6 point body. Exciting.

Let's not forget we've got new leaders coming as well. The Usurper for NG and Filavandrel for Scoia'Tael have been revealed

 

[HTMekkatorque]

I want to throw out there that I have this slight incling that you are all in fact wrong and in fact everybody will be playing ghoul/wearwolf moonlight monster.

 

[DMaster2]

Handbuff is definitely not T2, and it also benefited from the change to Iorveth. ST as a faction arguably doesn't have a single T2 deck outside of -maybe- Spell. As for Veterans, it shot to prominence thanks to extremely solid existing support for the archetype that was only made "unplayable" previously because it lacked consistency, early tempo, and Bran Restore was simply so much better. The silver and gold support that made/makes Bran Restore so strong is basically the same as what Vet needs to thrive. So when you introduce a card that fills out its bronze list and tutors its core engine cards, while ALSO adding a gold that increases its R1 tempo, its two weaknesses (consistency and early tempo) are effectively fixed. Meanwhile, Bran Restore got dinged with the changes to Restore, losing it a major tempo/carry-over combo, but that change really had no significant impact on vet's game. In fact, the addition of Maiden gave Vet a fantastic Restore target that DID work with its game plan, so the change really didn't hurt them much at all (and effectively saved them versus Aglais).

For NG, their silvers and golds are much more tailored to their existing archetypes (mill, reveal, spies). While there are definitely some solid silvers/golds that an alchemy deck could utilize, they don't specifically synergize with what it wants to accomplish. There also aren't really any existing bronzes that provide the deck's engine. Vic Novice tutors alchemy cards, but outside of that what bronze support is there for the archetype? Vets had its Veterans, Skirmishers, and one of the most universally versatile/powerful bronzes in Harpooners, plus Pirate Captains as an added variant, already in place, it just needed a reliable way to see its Veterans early every match and thin down its deck. Alchemy now has effectively its first "core" bronze. Compare that to say, Reveal, which already had a fully fleshed out archetype with bronze, silver, AND gold support in place... and adding an OP bronze still wasn't sufficient to push it out of the doldrums and into T2. So like I said, whether this card is OP or not rests entirely on what other support is being released for it, because currently it has next to nothing. We'll see.

The first part, sorry but i call it nonsense. Oh wait veteran decks aren't only made of the new chick in town. Woah really? No bronze can make a deck works alone, veterans in fact were unplayed until they got a key bronze card that allowed that deck to shine. And you don't need wolfsbane to make a working veteran deck, personally i'm running a Cratch build that doesn't use it and i'm cruising both normal and pro ladder with it (don't want to jynx it but i'm going with a 72% winrate right now).

Vipers aren't the only cards made for alchemy. Novice is the fetch card. Novice in fact already allow you nice tempo swings by having only 2 other units on two different rows, then pulling ale for a 14 boost. Now consider that vipers are 7 deal 6 running ONLY 3 ales, which you always want to run anyway because you already do so if you attempt an NG alchemy deck, and you see why it can easily become scary. They just need a strong gold card that support the play style to shine imho, the core pieces are already there.

Calveit (unless a new alchemy leader is revealed) will also fix the inconsistency issue you may get because you don't draw the vipers. Well with John and Cahir that isn't an issue anymore.