Buff for Kayran

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Buff for Kayran

Kayran is a bit underwhelming at the moment as there are not many power 6 units you really want to get off the board.
And often you end up devouring a lower unit, because there are no other options.
At best he is a 12 power swing and there are many silvers who can do much better than that.
Wouldn't he be more on par with other gold units if he was either:

1: power 7 devour 7
2: power 4 devour 9
3: power 8 devour 6
 
At best it is an 18 power swing actually. 6 (power) + 6 (removal) + 6 (boost) = 18. I would prefer if it boosted itself by double instead though, so the maximum would be 24.
 
I like the idea but would prefer a slight change. Instead of changing the power of the card or ability, what about a second consumption. You get a max of 30 (could be less depending on what cards are consumed.) but this way the player gets more flexibility and it is useful for consumption decks.
 
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Give him the regurgitate ability. Eat a unit of 6 strength or less and strengthen self by the devoured unit's strength. After digesting for 2 turns, spit it out and damage an enemy with the devoured unit's strength.
 
Getting 24 or even 30 power out of a card, which only condition it is to have low enough enemies on the board is far too high. Moreover, the consume stacks are great, too.
14 to 18 + 1 consume stack aren't that bad. Against decks that open with a 6 strength card, Kayran is basically an auto win for the first round, if the enemy doesn't want to get down 2 cards.

The only thing I could imagine is: Consume a card with 8 or less power than consume an enemy with less power.
This way it would be a double consume (an ally and an enemy), but would need a bit more setup as you need to have a fitting consume target on your own side before.
 
FG15-ISH7EG, I think you are missing a few things. 1, every other faction has a gold card at or around 25+ which swings the game. Examples (these are not the only examples just one for each) NG Menno Coehoorn, NR dijkstra or vandergrift, SK hjalmar, or vabjorn, or coral (the list goes on,) ST iorveth meditation, ithlinne plus tremors, schirru. My point is the ability to consume 2 enemies is not game breaking or auto round winning (especially with scorch.) As for 4RM3D suggestion that the enemy be regurgitated, I like it, but I wonder if that wouldn't hurt 3rd usefulness (as there might not be enough time to digest and spit.)
 
Wonderboy8700;n10222662 said:
but I wonder if that wouldn't hurt 3rd usefulness (as there might not be enough time to digest and spit.)

That's the whole idea. You can easily get up to a solid 18 point swing and another 6, if the round lasts long enough and Kayran isn't countered. Even if you can't get the 2nd ability off, it's still a nice card.
 
Yeah, up to 18 power seems pretty decent to me. I don't think a buff is really needed. But of course in some meta's you'll see that card less often than in others.
 
I think you are missing a few things. 1, every other faction has a gold card at or around 25+ which swings the game. Examples (these are not the only examples just one for each) NG Menno Coehoorn, NR dijkstra or vandergrift, SK hjalmar, or vabjorn, or coral (the list goes on,) ST iorveth meditation, ithlinne plus tremors, schirru. My point is the ability to consume 2 enemies is not game breaking or auto round winning (especially with scorch.)

Correct but also not every gold is a finisher. Kayran, aside from its obvious ability to eat Impera Enforcers, empowers Nekkers, actually giving you a max of 18 points on play and 2 - 7 to your nekkers. It is usually worth more than 20 points, but it's usually not a finisher. That is all. If you want a gold finisher with monsters that's more than 20 power, then you play Weavess: Incantation into Crones. But really, almost every Monster gold is worth 18 points or more under the right circumstances. Woodland spirit is 12 with Foglet, + Fog giving you passively 2 points each turn, Draug is usually 18 without even using Ruehin or Yennefer, Whispess: Tribute into Monster Nest into Ancient Foglet is 19, Kayran is 18 plus the number of nekkers, Imlerith is 17, Brewess: Ritual can be as much as 17 just by resurrecting 2 Rotfiends, and the list goes on. The point is that the monster golds have a decent value. The only one which is a true finisher is Succubus though, which is insane if not countered.
 
Haven't been seeing Kayran that much, but almost every time it has appeared it has eaten an important (in one way or another) unit. Its Consume synergy gives it extra usefulness, so IMO it doesn't necessarily need buffs. Never really played it myself, though, so I lack that perspective.


4RM3D;n10222062 said:
Give him the regurgitate ability. Eat a unit of 6 strength or less and strengthen self by the devoured unit's strength. After digesting for 2 turns, spit it out and damage an enemy with the devoured unit's strength.

This actually sounds really cool. :D
 
Wonderboy8700;n10222662 said:
FG15-ISH7EG, I think you are missing a few things. 1, every other faction has a gold card at or around 25+ which swings the game. Examples (these are not the only examples just one for each) NG Menno Coehoorn, NR dijkstra or vandergrift, SK hjalmar, or vabjorn, or coral (the list goes on,) ST iorveth meditation, ithlinne plus tremors, schirru. My point is the ability to consume 2 enemies is not game breaking or auto round winning (especially with scorch.)
All those units you mentioned need a lot of setup. Menno needs at least a 13 point spying target to reach above 20, Dijstrka is pretty unreliable except as a finisher, Vandergrift needs long rounds for more than 20, too, Hjalmar needs a removal and can be locked or passed by the enemy, Vabjorn needs a traget with more than 10 base strength which isn't that common + a removal, Ioverth needs 2 high targets, Schirru also needs the right state of board and scorch can always be played around.
Not a single of the cards you mentioned can be used as an opener and needs so less setup (except Hjalmar maybe).

And concerning scorch. First of all, even scorch is a far lower powerswing than Kayran was, because the consumed value won't come back, so scorch leaves the Kayran player still with about +10 or even more. And not all decks include scorch. There are other cards like, Gigni, Villen, Artefact Compression/Coral, which are used against high cards, but are useless against Kayran, and even Reset doesn't give much power back.
This would make a Kayran start a first round win on even cards or card advantage, if the enemy opens with cards smaller than 7. And even if he doesn't in a longer round, Kayran will easily find his targets and therefore be combined with Nekkers a 30+ powerswing without any chance for the enemy to prevent it.
And he can even remove key tragets.

Therefore this idea would completly be broken.
 
Pruny;n10224652 said:
gold cards can reach 20 points, so make him 4 and consume 8
:rage:

With the recent power creep this sounds reasonable, cause most of the engine units are now starting at 7. I can only think of Enforcers and Brigades off the top of my head. Maybe a Nekker here or there, but in general you'll need to do some damage to use Kayran properly. And you'll hardly have such cards in Consume.

4 to 7/7 also sounds reasonable and WAY better than 6/6/6 (though I like the last number \m/ (^__^) \m/ ).
 
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I think Kayran needs to be able to target more stuff. Buffs have made a lot of the cards you'd like to hit too tough for Kayran to actually target.

And it should be born in mind that the ideal scenario does require an exact 6 power target. Lots of decks don't give you such a clean target, and you have to take a 4 or 5.
 
Buff KAYRAN

He should consume at least 8point enemies, its ridiculous how Seltkirk can kill my 11point foglet and kayran cant kill reinforced trebuchet.:mad:
 
"Consume a unit with 8 power or less and boost self by its power. Leave behind a 2 power carcass in its place."
Edit: This thread appeared for me as new, since I only clicked on the last comment link. He should be 6 power if he could consume 8 point units and leave 2 point carcass. When you make big buffs like these, you should always try to make a smaller nerf, to keep it balanced.
 
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they already buffed it to a 19pt swing (5+7 and the opponent loses 7) with no set up AND consume synergy.... with even minimal setup it easily surpasses even Nova. Meanwhile You're complaining about Seltkirk which is exactly the same 19pt max swing, has no synergies, nor any setups to increase it's value*

*correction: Seltkirk can get up to +2pt more swing that Kayran comparing both played with royal decree, which I think is more than fair considering the lack of synergies and setups.
 
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