Graveyard interaction

[R3m_Ark]

Graveyard interaction

Hello everyone.

Actually, your graveyard could be one of your weakness. If you send too powerful units, your opponent could steal/destroy, and win with your own units.
It's pretty balanced if your opponent can counter your win condition, wich impose your deck to get many way to win.
But, it seems pretty unfair to see them winning with your own units. I think we should protect the player of loosing because of his graveyard.

For example, if a SK play wit a skirmisher, he knows this unit will be focus, and he must take care of his own card. It's not really nice to setup your victory and see your opponent wins with your card. But, if we make a small change...if the unit stolen by the opponent is just a vanilla ward, with no ability... Instead of stealing a 15+ skirmisher, he will get a 8 one, and still breaking your setup. It's a win-win, in my opinion, because he still breaks the setup, but you won't see a stong unit you create on the other board. Would be the same for Stennis: he will spawn without ability. You break the graveyard without taking a powerful advantage (siege support too).

But, what's the point?
You should not fear your own deck, your own graveyard. Ok, your opponent can interact with it. It's pretty fair, he needs to answer to your deck.
Also, this idea won't affect spies. If the unit you choose to rez is a spy, nothing will change. It's your setup. Like ng spies or iris etc.

It's not about nerfing vicovaro medic or caretaker/ozzrel. And nothing should change with Muzzle, because it's a gold. You pay the price of a slot for it.

thank you for reading

 

[DannyGuy]

Sounds good to me, +1.

 

[South8]

I agree completely. I understand the possibility of a counter, but it is just absurd that after I put up so much work into strengthening a unit to a high value to resurrect it in the last round, the opponent reaps the reward. Especially since Skellige are kind of designed to be dependent on their graveyard in later game.
On a related note: does it not bother anyone that Vicovaro medic is almost as strong as Caretaker, while being a bronze? Only difference is the ability to take a sliver and lets be honest, not many of those that are really worth taking with many juicier bronzes these days... NG can't even resurrect its own units above 5 points, but they can resurrect my 20 point Clan greatsword with a bronze card? Absurd. It could at least be limited somehow, for example what OP suggests here or resurrecting units with power lower than 5 or something..

 

[Cipher90]

Erm
That's called a weakness and every faction is having them.
All you need to do is think in a strategic way and not use these kind of units if your enemy is able to use your graveyard

 

[South8]

Yes, I understand faction weaknesses, but that misses the point. I have nothing against Golds like Caretaker or the upcoming Yennefer to mess with my graveyard, as well as silvers - Ozzrel, Assire, Donar etc... They will mess a bit, but nothing I can't get around. But having 3 bronze counters aimed at the main point of the whole faction (most of SK strategy is based on resurrect mechanic, even their spy discards instead of returning to deck like others) is a bit too much. Especially since some cards themselves have abilities on resurrect around which I can't play other than not including them in the deck... I just cannot find a comparable example of a similar faction weakness in other factions. Removal of some strategic engine units is not the same as stealing strengthened soldiers and bricking freya's priestesses in the process.
Just to clarify, I am talking about this more in principle than from being salty for this happening to me. Vicovaro medics are usually aimed at resurrecting own spies and I think this only happened to me once or twice. I always took care of distributing strengthening, luring medics via spy removal, hurry with valuable resurrect etc, so there are of course counters to this counter. Still, when playing against NG I am always a bit nervous if I can get any value out of my graveyard before the opponent does, because in the end it just feels like a cheap trick if after all my work with strengthening via non-bronze cards - mandrake, wild boar - the opponents can just take it with a simple bronze unit, no skill involved. Similar to Slave drivers, a discussion about which I would rather not descend into...

 

[TrompeLaMort]

Wouldn't that be a good example of dumbing down the game that everyone complains about (sometimes with reason)?

 

[ChaosPhantom819]

Vicovaro medic should just get nerfed to only resurrect spies or units with 6 or less power. Skellige is problematic in a completely different way though.

 

[GenLiu]

Erm
That's called a weakness and every faction is having them.
All you need to do is think in a strategic way and not use these kind of units if your enemy is able to use your graveyard

In fact you're pointing out the biggest problem with Graveyard interaction and Skellige, their weakness can't be ajusted reliably because at the end of the day, this is your win condition.

Every decks have weaknesses I'm agree with that but most of the time, you can play around your opponent's counters to establish you win con. For example a weather deck will not spam their weather effect too agressively if they expect their opponent to have clear sky effects, this way, they can trick their enemies into delaying the clear too much or playing it too early and still get their win condition generating value.

Skellige don't have this luxury, if you play QG, for example, you HAVE to get your QG into your graveyard and you HAVE to buff them. This is how you win the game and when it's true you can rely on tricks to increase your chance of winning (buffing something else to confuse your opponent or place them in a position where they don't have a perfect res target, delaying Bran as much as possible ect) they will remain tricks that every good player will be able to read/play around/counter them and you're still gonna lose 9O% of the time because the res strategy is just too "all in" in one direction to begin with and every play you make in order to avoid counters will affect your score by a great deal, leading you to pretty much the same chance of losing than playing right into them.

I played QG a hell of a lot (I never stopped playing this deck and still do) and believe me, if your opponent runs cards like Vicovaro med or anything that affects your res targets and know how to use them, you stand no chance the vast majority of the time.

Hello everyone.

Actually, your graveyard could be one of your weakness. If you send too powerful units, your opponent could steal/destroy, and win with your own units.
It's pretty balanced if your opponent can counter your win condition, wich impose your deck to get many way to win.
But, it seems pretty unfair to see them winning with your own units. I think we should protect the player of loosing because of his graveyard.

For example, if a SK play wit a skirmisher, he knows this unit will be focus, and he must take care of his own card. It's not really nice to setup your victory and see your opponent wins with your card. But, if we make a small change...if the unit stolen by the opponent is just a vanilla ward, with no ability... Instead of stealing a 15+ skirmisher, he will get a 8 one, and still breaking your setup. It's a win-win, in my opinion, because he still breaks the setup, but you won't see a stong unit you create on the other board. Would be the same for Stennis: he will spawn without ability. You break the graveyard without taking a powerful advantage (siege support too).

I agree and disagree with you.
While I agree that graveyard counters are too strong in Gwent (Vicovaro medic being a bronze card that reads "you lose the game" in this case) I don't think it would be a solution to prevent your opponent to touch your graveyard all together.
It's certainly annoying but it's the counter against the res strategy and if you remove it from your opponent, it's basically home run for you, there is nothing that can stop your strategy.

What CDPR could do, however, is make Vicovaro medic resing a unit and set it to it's starting power (so, for example Skirimisher would come back to 8 even if they were 18).
That would be better and more ballanced because what kills every res based strategy right now is the fact that, when an opponent steal a unit from your graveyard, they counter the unit plus all the effort you put into it....twice! Which is game breaking.
If at least the unit came back with its starting power, it would be a lot more managable imo.

 

[DannyGuy]

What CDPR could do, however, is make Visovaro medic resing a unit and set it to it's starting power (so, for example Skirimisher would come back to 8 even if they were 18

+1. Makes more sense than disabling the unit's ability.

Erm That's called a weakness and every faction is having them. All you need to do is think in a strategic way and not use these kind of units if your enemy is able to use your graveyard

Alright, so I'll think in a strategic way and just avoid playing as Skellige, thanks

 

[R3m_Ark]

Maybe, it could be a locked unit, when you steal it. You punish the opposent, but can't use the unit expect if you tech in order to....
Anyway, like someone said on Twitter, maybe it's just all the graveyard and rez tech wich need a rework.

 

[Esmer]

My main faction is SK since the CBT. I have no problems with opponents interacting with my graveyard. And in hundreds of games I had with skellige I can't remember even 10 when Vicovaro medics really hurt me.

First of all, you have to play around it (lose round 1 to resurrect a unit first thing in round 3, not invest into 1 unit, etc). Secondly, we are talking about a faction identity here.

The game was already dumbed down, do you really want to hurt it further by killing off the whole archetype (NG spies) just so your strategy couldn't be punished?

 

[TrompeLaMort]

Vicovaro medic should just get nerfed to only resurrect spies or units with 6 or less power. Skellige is problematic in a completely different way though.

I would definitely be fine with Vico ressing units with 5 or less strength. And it would make him symmetric to ointment. I think it is a great suggestion.

After they limited freya and even Sigfrieda, it makes absolutely no sense that Vico can ress things that not even SK can. And I truly believe no bronze should be able to counter entire archetypes. Having a Caretaker (or now a Necromancer) destroy your strategy feels bad, but at least they are golds. Aghouls (and Necromancy, I guess) are silver. Vico is the outlier there.