She's fine as is, not every deck uses a spell meaning she is useless in many games. I never even use her for that reason. Nerf her she will go from high risk to unplayable, nobody is going to risk a 5 or 6 point dead gold which they can do nothing about.
I agree with the replies here. I happen to use her quite a bit, and she has indeed been bricked for me quite a few times. She's great when she works, though...no doubt about it. I say leave her as is. If anything, she's a another great example of a risk/reward-type of gold card.
Hellsmoke77;n10773921 said:
That's maybe why they should bring the "Effort" tag back.
Iuliandrei;n10774101 said:
In my opinion we should stop suggesting ST nerfs as ST just had a whole list of nerfs and another list is already in the works.
List 1
1. Dwarven Skirmisher
2 . Iorveth Meditation
3. Aglais!!!
4. Ithlenne
5. Dwarven Agitator
6. Mahakam Guard
Upcoming nerf list 2
1. Wardancer
2. Elven Scout
3. Half-Elf Hunter
4. Brouver
5. Aglais again?!?
How about we just delete the faction all together? Would that make everyone happy? Maybe we should wait until Brouver gets nerfed and actually see where ST stands without the coinflip abuse before suggesting a nerf to every card we don't like. I know it's hard to grasp but some of us actually like playing ST...
Hellsmoke77;n10774261 said:
First of all how is that you only see nerfs whenever someone suggests anything? Secondly it seems your passion is driven by pure self-interest. I know it's hard to grasp but most people don't identify themselves with a faction in this game and make suggestions that they think might make the game better overall, not buff the faction they play or have knee-jerk reactions to changes they perceive as threatening to their livelihood.
There's no need for hostility, so please leave it out of your posts. Thank you.
KenLBlack;n10773981 said:
Exactly, if you nerf here you'd have to give her an ability in case the opponent hasn't played a special card, Like Letho: Kingslayer or Aguara.:yes:
What has that to do with Aglais. If she is too strong, she needs a nerf, no matter how the faction is doing, if she isn't too strong she should stay as she is. And instead of keeping single cards too strong, only for a faction not becoming too weak, it makes more sense to buff too weak cards, because that will actually increase deck varity.Hellsmoke77;n10774261 said:
Concerning Aglais current state:
I think in theory she is in a good spot as a risk reward card. 8 power if the enemy doesn't have a spell isn't too bad and 8+silver specials is pretty strong but not too much.
The only problem that I see is that in the current situation there are too many decks running specials, such that the risk isn't high enough.
Of all decks (at high tier):
-32% use Runestone
-15% use Scorch
-47% use Mandrake
-46% use Recon
-25% use Double Cross
This makes her far too reliable. If Runestone gets removed from Ranked, and Mandrake or Recon might be nerved, the whole situation will look completly different for sure.
What I personally find completly annoying about her is the banishing part. Playing a Eithne-Movement deck with Pit Trap, she can completly deny the whole strategy by banishing the Pit Trap. I think it would make more sense if she just spawned a copy and would banish that.
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Iuliandrei;n10774291 said:
The very title of this thread is "Nerf Aglais", if you can come up with an excuse as to how REDUCING the points of a unit is anything but a nerf I'll gladly hear it.
Nefing a faction this hard is not "making the game better overall", it's catering to people who play other factions and are threatened by the cards they want nerfed. Aglais is used in about 20% of ST decks, she was nerfed in the last balance patch and is fine as is. The rest of what you wrote and how you wrote it I'll just ignore as it has nothing to do with facts rather than your opinion.
Hellsmoke77;n10774411 said:
A title to which you responded by just saying "No", very articulate and insightful. I'm sorry but do you actually believe you're saving this faction right now? Do you actually believe that CDPR devs will read this thread and consider nerfing Aglais, but seeing your post would make them change their mind?
However you took a similar approach to my comment aswell, for suggesting a change.
Also you're free to play other factions aswell, maybe then you'll move past this tribal mentality and see the game in a more objective light, rather than this "us versus them" where you have to make up reasons to defend your faction. And if you dare speak of facts maybe you can provide some sources for where you got that 20% play rate. I'm not really sure who you're trying to convince here.
FG15-ISH7EG;n10774391 said:
If there are too many decks running specials that's not a problem with Aglais, that's a problem with people not taking her into account while building their deck. I don't want to run mandrake but I'm left with no other option. I don't want to run a spy but I'm left with no other option. It makes no sense to change a card due to what people are playing, people should build their decks keeping all possibilities in mind.
The op had the brilliant idea to run rockslide to combat ST without thinking about Aglais and got punished. Instead of going back to the drawing board he chose to come here and complain to have the card nerfed.
The banishing part was a nerf, if not for that Aglais could not only grab your rockslide but use it again with Eithne. It is logical that something which is stolen is no longer at your disposal, if we are going to change that let's change Vicovaro Medic who can grab a 20 point greatsword from your graveyard and is a bronze, or Caretaker. Like Aglais these two are also situational.
What do all these nerfs have to do with Aglais? They make the whole faction weaker. Once Brouver is nerfed I guarantee you ST isn't going to be up in the higher ranks as it is now. Nerfs need to be carefully thought through or you will kill the faction that has already had a few archetypes rendered useless.
Iuliandrei;n10774591 said:
Do you know which factions I play? I highly doubt it..let's focus the discussion on the card if anything and not on me.
Source..
https://www.gwentdb.com/cards/3006-aglais
I said about 20% because I was too lazy to look, it's 24.20% to be precise. You're welcome.
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To determine whether or not Aglais needs a nerf you need to get a rough idea of her average card value.
Iorveth Meditation and Ithlinne/Tremors had to be nerfed because they averaged 20-30 points every time they were used. I don't believe Aglais is getting very close to those numbers on a regular basis. You'll high roll scorch now and again, and mandrake is always nice, but even mandrake requires certain game states to get massive value out of it, and ST is one of the factions least able to benefit from a boost to one of its own units (very little in the way of resurrection tech; not even a Cahir equivalent).
I certainly don't think of her as a power gold, more an effective roleplayer like Triss: Telekinesis. Now that she dooms the spell she grabs so Eithne can't double up on something the faction isn't meant to have, I don't see her as a major problem, and I can't think of many games where she's really turned the tide either for or against me.
Iorveth Meditation and Ithlinne/Tremors had to be nerfed because they averaged 20-30 points every time they were used. I don't believe Aglais is getting very close to those numbers on a regular basis. You'll high roll scorch now and again, and mandrake is always nice, but even mandrake requires certain game states to get massive value out of it, and ST is one of the factions least able to benefit from a boost to one of its own units (very little in the way of resurrection tech; not even a Cahir equivalent).
I certainly don't think of her as a power gold, more an effective roleplayer like Triss: Telekinesis. Now that she dooms the spell she grabs so Eithne can't double up on something the faction isn't meant to have, I don't see her as a major problem, and I can't think of many games where she's really turned the tide either for or against me.
Completely agree. Please keep this thread focused on Aglais instead of general opinions of whether Scoia'tael is too strong or too weak.FG15-ISH7EG;n10774391 said:
True, she rarely bricks nowadays. The problem with her though is that usually you just have to take what you get, having only 1 or 2 cards to choose from that has has no synergy with your deck or what you actually need in the situation. Granted sometimes you get just what you need, but that's very rare especially since opponent can actually play around her (e.g. a smart Consume player doesn't play Mandrake when suspecting Aglais). Also often she's a dead card until your opponent plays a spell, which sometimes happens only late in the game if ever at all.FG15-ISH7EG;n10774391 said:
Compare that to Vesemir, who's active from turn 1 and can play a card from your deck that you actually included for a reason (though granted sometimes that reason is just to have another Alchemy card
). Or even Triss where you have up to 3 choices again including cards that you added to your deck for a reason (but yes she cannot play Silver). Both of them are Neutral btw, but also there are several other examples of 6-pont Gold tutors for Silver cards in other factions as well.Considering all this I don't find that +2 power all that strong. If anything she needs to get buffed if the changes you mentioned actually happen.
Eithne's ability is pretty strong and I don't find it problematic, that we have at least one card in the game that is able to mess with it. Movement has problems of its own if it only takes removing the ability to re-play Pit Trap to kill it.FG15-ISH7EG;n10774391 said:
So including Rockslide into a swarm deck as a tech card against a swarm deck that runs Aglais turned out to be bad choice. Sorry, but that's hardly a reason to nerf a card. (You may also want to consider having more targets for your Eithne, as if it only takes Aglais to brick her, that seems problematic even without Aglais.)Pruny;n10776121 said:
I think Caretaker mostly meant to be a graveyard hate tech card. As a tech card though it's meant to be somewhat weaker against other decks, and usually having several targets he was too consistently good with the 6-point regular Gold tutor value.
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Not convinced Aglais needs a nerf. I'd hazard that she's worth, on average, ~20 points. That's strong for a gold but not overpoweringly so, and she's balanced by two weaknesses:
1) She can brick in certain matchups (= 8 point gold).
2) Opponent needs to actually play a spell first, and it needs to be a spell you can use. The first part is not trivial - against some matchups you might have to wait until near the end of the game before Aglais becomes useful. The second isn't trivial either, e.g. if you're the one with the biggest unit on the board then you can't take Scorch even if it's available. You might not be able to take Marching Orders if the lowest unit in your deck is a Wardancer. Et cetera.
One can compare her to some extent with Hanmarvyn's Dream. That's also a simple "improved value" on your opponent's cards, and yet it doesn't see play. If she took spells from your own graveyard then it's a much better deal since she'd be much more consistent, which is why Eithne's body is only worth 5 points.
Is Aglais a good gold, yes, is she overpowered, I remain to be convinced.
1) She can brick in certain matchups (= 8 point gold).
2) Opponent needs to actually play a spell first, and it needs to be a spell you can use. The first part is not trivial - against some matchups you might have to wait until near the end of the game before Aglais becomes useful. The second isn't trivial either, e.g. if you're the one with the biggest unit on the board then you can't take Scorch even if it's available. You might not be able to take Marching Orders if the lowest unit in your deck is a Wardancer. Et cetera.
One can compare her to some extent with Hanmarvyn's Dream. That's also a simple "improved value" on your opponent's cards, and yet it doesn't see play. If she took spells from your own graveyard then it's a much better deal since she'd be much more consistent, which is why Eithne's body is only worth 5 points.
Is Aglais a good gold, yes, is she overpowered, I remain to be convinced.