Wishlist of Scoia'tael buffs.

[Barracuda88]

Wishlist of Scoia'tael buffs.

With all the constructive nerf threads out there, I figured I'd post a modest list of Scoia buffs I'd like to see:

1. Bowman: Either increase strength to 9 or increase initial damage to 4.
2. Mahakam guards should go back to strengthening dwarves.
3. Silver Morenn: needs to revert to applying damage before the enemy's ability is resolved.
4. Sentries need to be able to reboost to proper value when resurrected.
5. New Ambush unit: Blah Blablanna Trapper: Flip to lock a unit, either immediately or after two turns or something
6. All ambush units need to flip over at the round end, regardless of whether ability conditions are met
7. Filavandrel: Create a spell, THEN play a card.
8. Marauder: apply the ability on contact with hazard/boon when deployed, in addition to end of turn gains
9. I: Meditation: Increase to 5 STR and make a spy, but remove the row restriction, reverting back to how the ability worked originally.
10. Elven Merc: inscrease str to 2

Feel free to add your own

 

[Rawls]

1. Bowman: Either increase strength to 9 or increase initial damage to 4.

Most non-engine bonzes default value is 11. 7 + 4 = 11.

2. Mahakam guards should go back to strengthening dwarves.

Did they strengthen? I think they always boosted. Either way, strengthen, combined with skirmishers, Barclay Hattori and Paulie is highly problematic.

3. Silver Morenn: needs to revert to applying damage before the enemy's ability is resolved.

+1 I agree.

4. Sentries need to be able to reboost to proper value when resurrected.

Disagree. Also if they were still 15+ value ... I'm not sure ST would have a way to rez them anyways. At least I couldn't think of one off the top of my head.

5. New Ambush unit: Blah Blablanna Trapper: Flip to lock a unit, either immediately or after two turns or something

I'm not sure bronze lock units would be a great idea. Would completely negate the need for DShackles.

6. All ambush units need to flip over at the round end, regardless of whether ability conditions are met

I dunno ... that would make playing against ST really un-interactive for opponents. Which isn't much fun. Or so was claimed before they nerfed ambush to the ground prior to OB.

7. Filavandrel: Create a spell, THEN play a card.

Play card from hand or from deck? Is it random or chosen? If it's from hand and chosen ... I could get behind it.

8. Marauder: apply the ability on contact with hazard/boon when deployed, in addition to end of turn gains

If you wanted to do this though, I think it should be nerfed one point so that he doesn't get to 10 on contact with a boon before opponent gets a chance to respond. They should be subjected to at least one opportunity for bronze removal.

9. I: Meditation: Increase to 5 STR and make a spy, but remove the row restriction, reverting back to how the ability worked originally.

I would prefer they just increase the base strength and leave it as is on our side. Maybe something like 5-7 points. That plus current ability would make him reliably around 15-20 points + with potential for much more in certain circumstances. As he was he was OP, even giving opponent a 5 spot. Also Iorveth as a character doesn't make a ton of lore sense as a spy.

10. Elven Merc: inscrease str to 2

+1

 

[partci]

Reading through this... how about deleting all other factions and the game be renamed to Gwent'atael?

 

[1990BW]

Why do these cards need buffs?

 

[Laveley]

ST needs a win con. Sentry dont quite hit the mark.

 

[Barracuda88]

Most non-engine bonzes default value is 11. 7 + 4 = 11.

So do you agree the Bowman should be bumped to 9 or +4? Cos right now it's 7+2=9. Or are you saying they shouldn't be boosted because they're engine cards? Personally, I feel like engine cards are the ones that perpetuate themselves, i.e. ships, dragoons, vran. Bowman requires multiple other cards to interact with the board to use its ability.

Did they strengthen? I think they always boosted. Either way, strengthen, combined with skirmishers, Barclay Hattori and Paulie is highly problematic.

Yes, they did strengthen at one time. Mostly, i'm looking here for a boost to resilient archetype, but even if I commit 3 guards to strengthen ONE skirmisher to like +9 and then resurrect it one time with a silver, I don't think why that's "highly problematic". Skirmishers no longer strengthen themselves.

Disagree. Also if they were still 15+ value ... I'm not sure ST would have a way to rez them anyways. At least I couldn't think of one off the top of my head.

Well, how i imagine it is they would revert to 2 value in the graveyard and then REBOOST back once rezzed, so Hattori would be able to, you know, be used for something other than Barclay.

I'm not sure bronze lock units would be a great idea. Would completely negate the need for DShackles.

Well, not really. I mean you couldn't control what they lock, so a lot of times they would flip on something pointless, like a viper witcher or a hunter or whatever. And other times you would time it perfectly and grab an engine or something. Also, it wouldn't have to damage the thing by 4, but would have some sort of STR value to the unit.

Play card from hand or from deck? Is it random or chosen? If it's from hand and chosen ... I could get behind it.

Create the spell like he does now, then play either it, or any other card from hand.

If you wanted to do this though, I think it should be nerfed one point so that he doesn't get to 10 on contact with a boon before opponent gets a chance to respond. They should be subjected to at least one opportunity for bronze removal. I would prefer they just increase the base strength and leave it as is on our side. Maybe something like 5-7 points. That plus current ability would make him reliably around 15-20 points + with potential for much more in certain circumstances. As he was he was OP, even giving opponent a 5 spot. Also Iorveth as a character doesn't make a ton of lore sense as a spy.

Well, the value is at 7 now, so the way I see it, if you deploy it into boon or hazard, it would deploy at 9, which is still within the bronze removal range.

 

[Barracuda88]

Why do these cards need buffs?

Because they are too weak

 

[Rawls]

So do you agree the Bowman should be bumped to 9 or +4? Cos right now it's 7+2=9. Or are you saying they shouldn't be boosted because they're engine cards? Personally, I feel like engine cards are the ones that perpetuate themselves, i.e. ships, dragoons, vran. Bowman requires multiple other cards to interact with the board to use its ability

Oh. You meant Marksman. I thought you meant DB Archer. Well Marksman are an engine card. So 7+2 feels about right. You only need to get one move on them to get them to 11 points. And if they have no counter you can get significantly more.

Yes, they did strengthen at one time. Mostly, i'm looking here for a boost to resilient archetype, but even if I commit 3 guards to strengthen ONE skirmisher to like +9 and then resurrect it one time with a silver, I don't think why that's "highly problematic". Skirmishers no longer strengthen themselves

It was definitely a huge issue during the-winter patch time period. It becomes a 15+ point bronze round 3 finisher.

Well, the value is at 7 now, so the way I see it, if you deploy it into boon or hazard, it would deploy at 9, which is still within the bronze removal range.

Into a boon you would get +1 for the boon plus + 2 for the ability. 7+3 = 10.

 

[time_drainer]

1. Bowman: Either increase strength to 9 or increase initial damage to 4.

They seem fine, or at least on par with similar engines.
As far as I can see it engines that create point on their own get 1/turn. Engines needing effect 2/effect in general (though it depends on teh effect of course).

2. Mahakam guards should go back to strengthening dwarves.

Not sure if they should get better at this than Skellige, whose staple is strengthening (Blacksmith or whats-his-name).

3. Silver Morenn: needs to revert to applying damage before the enemy's ability is resolved.

Sounds good to me. She's the least (never?) used Silver Ambush for a reason.

4. Sentries need to be able to reboost to proper value when resurrected.

As long as Hattori is the only resurrect option, I'm fine with this, but they shouldn't get easy ressed.
On the other hand they could use some base strength increase, as the insane amount of setup they need is rarely justified with proper end value. Also they would be then slightly less useless if forced to be played prematurely.

5. New Ambush unit: Blah Blablanna Trapper: Flip to lock a unit, either immediately or after two turns or something

Well, I'm not against bronze locks, but then each faction should get their own and silver locks should be buffed / reworked.

6. All ambush units need to flip over at the round end, regardless of whether ability conditions are met

Agree with the addition of their ability not resolving in this case. Sappers would need to be considered if they should be nerfed for this case (e.g. base strength 8, boost self by +3 when flipped unless on round end).

7. Filavandrel: Create a spell, THEN play a card.

Not sure if they want to keep new batch of Leaders for Casual/Arena or reworked when Create is removed from Rank. Former case I don't care that much about them being too well-balanced.

8. Marauder: apply the ability on contact with hazard/boon when deployed, in addition to end of turn gains

They could just get base strength increase to 8 (a bronze engine shouldn't get higher than that). Similar effect, but less complicated.

9. I: Meditation: Increase to 5 STR and make a spy, but remove the row restriction, reverting back to how the ability worked originally.

Not sure about that, it could still get too powerful. I liked another idea someone suggested better of letting him make duel a unit of your own with an enemy unit (with or without same row restriction).

10. Elven Merc: inscrease str to 2

Being more flexible than any other bronze special tutor should come with a price. I would be ok with strength increase if she gets limited to Spell & Alchemy (would kill the insane bronze tutor chain with Recon, which I consider a plus).

Feel free to add your own

I think is one thing SC needs is more - but less stupid and OP - ways to put multiple elfs onto the board. I don't think that either Scouts or Half-Elfs should remain in their current state, but the swarm deck definitely needs viable replacement for them (actually their own reworked version could be that replacement). I can't think of any right now that isn't a direct copy of an existing card though.

 

[Barracuda88]

Oh. You meant Marksman. I thought you meant DB Archer. Well Marksman are an engine card. So 7+2 feels about right. You only need to get one move on them to get them to 11 points. And if they have no counter you can get significantly more.

Correction: you need 2 targets AND a another card to get them to 11. Then another card to get them to 13, and another card to get them to 15. Meanwhile, more often than not all you get from this card is 9 and sometimes 7, which is why movement is not a competitive archetype.

It was definitely a huge issue during the-winter patch time period. It becomes a 15+ point bronze round 3 finisher.

Guards were never an issue because they did not strengthen during the winter dwarf meta. The issue was the skirmisher strengthened itself instead of boosting, requiring nothing but a valid target, then restrengthened itself when rezzed. Just because it's a 15+ point bronze finisher, doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game. There are NUMEROUS other high bronze finishers across other factions.

Into a boon you would get +1 for the boon plus + 2 for the ability. 7+3 = 10.

I guess. Well, the aim is to get to 9 before the opponents turn starts, whichever way we make it work

 

[Barracuda88]

They seem fine, or at least on par with similar engines.
As far as I can see it engines that create point on their own get 1/turn. Engines needing effect 2/effect in general (though it depends on teh effect of course).

What if we made the Marksmen ambush units? They'd stay at 7 and flip over when an enemy unit is moved

 

[Khreygond]

Sounds good to me. She's the least (never?) used Silver Ambush for a reason.

Stronger than Toruviel, and an absolute NG handbuff killer (snipes Emhyr mid-ability, making it impossible to return the unit to their hand AND they go an extra card down ). I use her in my ambush and ST Handbuff decks because no one expects her. You can use her early against certain decks (like Reveal if you play first to snipe their Mangonel and gain some tempo of your own) and force them an extra card down even if they have high tempo openings. All in all, she is not particularly good, but she isn't bad.

 

[1990BW]

Because they are too weak

Well some suggestions are not a remedy to that and some are overpowered or completely broken.
Just my thoughts about them:

1. Bowman: Either increase strength to 9 or increase initial damage to 4.

They are still prone to removal by strengthing them to 9 so it won't have effect.
If you let them do 4 damage they are overpowered against decks that don't have removal.
Unfortunatly most engines in this meta only work with resurrect.

2. Mahakam guards should go back to strengthening dwarves.

Same as the bowman Mahakam guards were useful on resilient units such as Defenders and Zigrin.
But they are vulnerable to removal so I guess the ability it has now is better.

3. Silver Morenn: needs to revert to applying damage before the enemy's ability is resolved.

An absolute no because it can block almost every gold or silver card of your opponent.
She's still useful as she is now.

4. Sentries need to be able to reboost to proper value when resurrected.

This is not how they work so no.

5. New Ambush unit: Blah Blablanna Trapper: Flip to lock a unit, either immediately or after two turns or something

It can be extremely usefull or it will do nothing, not a good card if you ask me.

6. All ambush units need to flip over at the round end, regardless of whether ability conditions are met

Fair

7. Filavandrel: Create a spell, THEN play a card.

Turn him into a Jan Calveit + play a spell?
No thats just insane value.

8. Marauder: apply the ability on contact with hazard/boon when deployed, in addition to end of turn gains

You'll have to change the boon for that.

9. I: Meditation: Increase to 5 STR and make a spy, but remove the row restriction, reverting back to how the ability worked originally.

Hell no

10. Elven Merc: inscrease str to 2

They are similar to every tutor from other factions so I don't see a reason to strengthen them.

 

[Barracuda88]

They are still prone to removal by strengthing them to 9 so it won't have effect.
If you let them do 4 damage they are overpowered against decks that don't have removal.
Unfortunatly most engines in this meta only work with resurrect.

What you get is 9-11 value on deploy, instead of 7-9

Same as the bowman Mahakam guards were useful on resilient units such as Defenders and Zigrin.
But they are vulnerable to removal so I guess the ability it has now is better.

Strengthening would make them gear towards resilient archetype. Right now they're just an all around 11-point "meh" that no one plays.

An absolute no because it can block almost every gold or silver card of your opponent.
She's still useful as she is now.

An absolute no because you can't be bothered playing around her? Whatever useful you think she is, almost no one plays her, so there's probably a reason for that.

This is not how they work so no.

Yes, the whole point of the suggestion was to actually CHANGE how they work. Because they HARDLY work right now.

It can be extremely usefull or it will do nothing, not a good card if you ask me.

Ok.

Turn him into a Jan Calveit + play a spell?
No thats just insane value.

No... you wouldn't turn him into Calveit. You would create a random spell, just like he does now, but THEN instead of being forced to immediately play it, you could play another, less badly timed card from your hand instead. How is this turning him into Calveit? Did you just misunderstand my idea?

You'll have to change the boon for that.

I don't see why you can't just change the card. Is there some coding issue that you're aware of and I'm not? Possible, I suppose.

Hell no

Eloquent. Here's a bit of explanation, since you provided none. Meditation was OP, so it was nerfed. Now it's useless, even in movement decks there's no reason to run it instead of Zoltan, Aard or about a dozen other golds. So the idea is to reduce the nerf a bit.

They are similar to every tutor from other factions so I don't see a reason to strengthen them.

Yeah, they're really NOT that similar. Your NG tutor, for instance, is 2 STR, for whatever reason. If anything though, the mercs are probably better, because they're so versatile. The extra point buff was more of a general bone thrown to a faction that's about to get the nerfhammer

 

[Bleach25]

Reading through this... how about deleting all other factions and the game be renamed to Gwent'atael?

Let's make it Gwent: a Skellige game instead

 

[HotdogMcG00]

Was the original post not sarcastic? You all are actually discussing this like he was serious. If the OP was serious - lol.

 

[Laveley]

Was the original post not sarcastic? You all are actually discussing this like he was serious. If the OP was serious - lol.

Yeah, its almost like scoiatael isnt the most OP faction with an astonishing higher win ratio than any other. And its almost like ST only has one real top tier deck that rely on a one trick pony... right?



There you go, some real sarcasm for you.



As far as i concerned, all the faction on this game needs serious buffs.

 

[1990BW]

1. Bowman: Either increase strength to 9 or increase initial damage to 4.
They are still prone to removal by strengthing them to 9 so it won't have effect.
If you let them do 4 damage they are overpowered against decks that don't have removal.
Unfortunatly most engines in this meta only work with resurrect.

What you get is 9-11 value on deploy, instead of 7-9

It's an engine type card so this buff will have no effect against removal.
And it makes them a bit to strong against (engine) decks who don't have removal (or limited).
Most engines have 7 strength and do 2 damage/boost with a requirement mechanic.
If you for example only buff the bowman and leave the others untouched this will cause new imbalances.
7 strength and 2 whatever is not a great design choice but it's how it is now.

2. Mahakam guards should go back to strengthening dwarves.
Same as the bowman Mahakam guards were useful on resilient units such as Defenders and Zigrin.
But they are vulnerable to removal so I guess the ability it has now is better.

Strengthening would make them gear towards resilient archetype. Right now they're just an all around 11-point "meh" that no one plays.

I understand but decks that rely on resilience are to weak against removal and to strong against non-removal decks.

3. Silver Morenn: needs to revert to applying damage before the enemy's ability is resolved.
An absolute no because it can block almost every gold or silver card of your opponent.
She's still useful as she is now.

An absolute no because you can't be bothered playing around her? Whatever useful you think she is, almost no one plays her, so there's probably a reason for that.

She's (was) a good engine killer.
The possibility to kill and disable a gold card's ability is overpowered.

4. Sentries need to be able to reboost to proper value when resurrected.
This is not how they work so no.

Yes, the whole point of the suggestion was to actually CHANGE how they work. Because they HARDLY work right now.

I think it's very hard to implement such an mechanic in this game, it should track and record all boosts you did in every single game.
Good luck with creating that

7. Filavandrel: Create a spell, THEN play a card.
Turn him into a Jan Calveit + play a spell?
No thats just insane value.

No... you wouldn't turn him into Calveit. You would create a random spell, just like he does now, but THEN instead of being forced to immediately play it, you could play another, less badly timed card from your hand instead. How is this turning him into Calveit? Did you just misunderstand my idea?

The way you've described it now is playing Fillavandrel > create spell (create has to be played immediately)-> play a card.
But OK the version as you meant it is basically a hybrid version of Dandelion: Poet and create.

8. Marauder: apply the ability on contact with hazard/boon when deployed, in addition to end of turn gains
You'll have to change the boon for that.

I don't see why you can't just change the card. Is there some coding issue that you're aware of and I'm not? Possible, I suppose.

If you want to boost them when they get in contact with froth they will boost twice because their ability is to boost themselves if their value changes.
Not sure if thats the right thing to do compared to other engines and general game balance.

9. I: Meditation: Increase to 5 STR and make a spy, but remove the row restriction, reverting back to how the ability worked originally.
Hell no

Eloquent. Here's a bit of explanation, since you provided none. Meditation was OP, so it was nerfed. Now it's useless, even in movement decks there's no reason to run it instead of Zoltan, Aard or about a dozen other golds. So the idea is to reduce the nerf a bit.

So it's fair to give SC the possibility to play two spies to get CA?
If this will happen partci's suggestion should also be implemented.

10. Elven Merc: inscrease str to 2
They are similar to every tutor from other factions so I don't see a reason to strengthen them.

Yeah, they're really NOT that similar. Your NG tutor, for instance, is 2 STR, for whatever reason. If anything though, the mercs are probably better, because they're so versatile. The extra point buff was more of a general bone thrown to a faction that's about to get the nerfhammer

SC has the 2 str Sage as well.
I agree tutors need attention but the Elven mercenary is fine.
From all the tutors this one has the largest cardpool at it's disposal.

 

[sfruzz]

3. Silver Morenn: needs to revert to applying damage before the enemy's ability is resolved.

I remember. It felt so good to snipe a card like Ceallach Dyffryn or deny a Vicovaro!

Basically it forced your opponent to respect an ambush card. The player couldn't just follow the gameplan as he/she were on autopilot, but had to respect the possibility of having Morenn instakill one of his/hers fragile cards. A good player would just test the waters with a high strength card to trigger Morenn and only afterwards play low strength units.
It was a fun and interesting interaction between players!
I'd love to have it back.

Stronger than Toruviel, and an absolute NG handbuff killer (snipes Emhyr mid-ability, making it impossible to return the unit to their hand AND they go an extra card down

As long as you can lock an ambush card I think it's fine. Moreover the Handbuff player could just play a Nilfgaardian Knight to take the hit, then Emyhr into Vesemir into Mandrake et voilà.

All ambush units need to flip over at the round end, regardless of whether ability conditions are met

I don't know if all ambush units, but at least golden Morenn should.


On the other items on the list I'm not sure, but I have some ideas for a Scoia'tael nerf wishlist.

 

[time_drainer]

Was the original post not sarcastic? You all are actually discussing this like he was serious. If the OP was serious - lol.

Just in case you're not trolling and you're were serious :
As OP states lot of nerf suggestions are around for ST (Wardancer, Brouver+Yaevinn+Cleaver, Scouts, Half-Elfs). Which I think are fair. But it's also fair to get some weaker cards buffed in exchange*.

*Ok, I'm actually not in favor of "trading" faction buffs for nerfs, but instead buff what's too weak, and nerf what's too powerful regardless of faction. But ST as any other factions has some weaker cards, and adding some well-deserved ST buffs would make ST players feel less like everybody just wants to kill their favorite faction.