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Make Muzle 9

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  • Make Muzle 9

    In this point spam meta i dont get much value from it, geting 9point drunk viper would be decent
    ​​​​

  • #2
    Too strong for a neutral Gold. While on topic, Shupe's charm should have an upper limit, something like 10? "Charm the Highest enemy with 10 power or less."

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    • #3
      8 is perfect, per current balance.
      Otherwise it is too good

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      • #4
        Its not too good, wont do more harm than now to engine decks.
        and dont tell me its to strong for neutral, triss and dandelion get huge values.
        I steal 6 point drunk vico thats 12point gold and they smash triss into ointment, vico, ointment, vico, beers.

        Also muzle dont pull roach so i am punished to play ultra low tempo control deck, against point spam braindead fiesta.
        Last edited by Pruny; 19-05-18, 09:50.

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        • #5

          Let's not forget how much of a pain in the arse this card was when it was meta. Also making it 9 would turn it into an 18 point card. So no, it's already good as it is.

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          • #6
            Every gold that can neutralize Engines needs to be taken down to 14 points at best, muzzle, kayran and Seltkirk included. It's already a bit much to be able to kill them AND gain that many points yourself.

            That of course entails other changes. Slightly less power to engines on deploy (most of them at least) vipers and every bronze removal (damned sorceresses - panthers) reworked, except Alzur's Thunder. That includes inconspicuous cards like the cyclops. And of course silver mages no longer spawning thunder, even though silver removal options should exist. But those should be balanced around 10 or 11 or so.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ser2440 View Post
              Every gold that can neutralize Engines needs to be taken down to 14 points at best, muzzle, kayran and Seltkirk included. It's already a bit much to be able to kill them AND gain that many points yourself.
              That of course entails other changes. Slightly less power to engines on deploy (most of them at least) vipers and every bronze removal (damned sorceresses - panthers) reworked, except Alzur's Thunder. That includes inconspicuous cards like the cyclops. And of course silver mages no longer spawning thunder, even though silver removal options should exist. But those should be balanced around 10 or 11 or so.
              The problem with this approach, that it can either make engines could go rampant or you can just end up helping point-spam instead of engines. Anyway I don't think this conversation belong here. You can find my opinion (mostly) on this in more details here.

              As for current meta they seem fine to me. They are counter card against specific type of decks and cards, it's natural that they find somewhat less value against others (not unlike for example Caretaker).
              Last edited by time_drainer; 19-05-18, 12:14.

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              • #8
                In the current meta? Absolutely.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bleach25 View Post
                  Let's not forget how much of a pain in the arse this card was when it was meta. Also making it 9 would turn it into an 18 point card. So no, it's already good as it is.
                  muzle can be countered by muzle, many times i got archerspores or greatswords and my oponent got them back.
                  like i said 1point will not afect engines decks more but its consistecy against point spam decks.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pruny View Post

                    muzle can be countered by muzle, many times i got archerspores or greatswords and my oponent got them back.
                    like i said 1point will not afect engines decks more but its consistecy against point spam decks.
                    Your opponent muzzled back because he had muzzle, which means that for your statement to be valid, muzzle would need to be meta again (another autoinclude card)

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                    • #11
                      muzzle was completely annoying back in the day when EVERYONE ran it. So no. I know my previous post involves of course getting a better meta first, but since apparently no one likes the current meta, that's why I focused on a rework for removal.

                      Even now it's still very much viable, as we see a lot of top players run it, in tournaments. Muzzle is useful in the matchups against almost every top tier deck. It's 17 points plus removing an engine against a damaged greatsword, it can take archespores, nekkers, axemen if used early on, henselt's machines, only brouver and alchemy have some resistance against it. Against brouver, you only need to wait until they boost a half elf hunter once or twice and it's still decent value. not good but decent. Against alchemy, it depends on what they spawn.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ser2440 View Post
                        muzzle was completely annoying back in the day when EVERYONE ran it. So no. I know my previous post involves of course getting a better meta first, but since apparently no one likes the current meta, that's why I focused on a rework for removal.

                        Even now it's still very much viable, as we see a lot of top players run it, in tournaments. Muzzle is useful in the matchups against almost every top tier deck. It's 17 points plus removing an engine against a damaged greatsword, it can take archespores, nekkers, axemen if used early on, henselt's machines, only brouver and alchemy have some resistance against it. Against brouver, you only need to wait until they boost a half elf hunter once or twice and it's still decent value. not good but decent. Against alchemy, it depends on what they spawn.
                        Stealing one Viper it's actually quite huge as you're denying a target for resurrection.

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                        • #13
                          they have plenty vipers, best target its roach (if it gets drunk)

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