Misleading/Unclear/Inconsistent Card descriptions

[Firekangaroo]

Misleading/Unclear/Inconsistent Card descriptions

The list of cards with horribly written descriptions in Gwent is pretty long, and the last patch didn't help it.
Some examples:

Succubus/Other disloyal units/All wheather cards: "on your opponent's side" and "start of your turn" would make one think that these cards trigger at the start of the turn of the one who played the card.

Morenn/Savage Bear: Both descriptions say they damage appearing units, but because CDPR didn't know how to deal with bears, they don't work the same way.

Orders: Golems literally contradict the ablities description, again because CDPR didn't know what to do.

Bronze or silver/Can be gold: Some effects include golds, some don't. This is not consistently stated in card descriptions.

Morkvarg/Clan Tuirseach Skirmishers: Getting discarded/destroyed(Morkvarg) is exactly the same as "enters the graveyard"(Skirmishers). There's no other way for units to enter the graveyard, considering Regis: Higher Vampire is treated as a discard effect(which should be changed imo)

Roach/card effects that refer to itself: Its effect says "play roach", other cards like Cerys say " this unit"

etc. etc.

Please, make this game consistent and easy to understand.

 

[Joneleth]

Hi,

I really don't get why there seems to be so little effort put into getting these fundamental things straight.

WHEN a unit appears = before deploy ability
AFTER a unit appears = after deploy ability

It could be so easy and instead we are getting 3 extra words on these cards every new patch. Orders, Morenn and Bear at least use "when/after" (plus an extra sentence explaining the word) while Roach just sais "whenever".

As for the "including Golds" thing: I think the problem comes from drawing cards. It feels unintuitive that you cannot draw gold cards unless statet so in the effect. It seems like CDPR are still learning when they have to be super precise and when it is more important for the text to be parsable.

Still i feel like haveing a rule and following it only 50% of the time is worse than not having any rule at all (that is still bad). I think wording in gwent in general would need a workover and then not be shredded again by following patches.

 

[Skryba86]

Being destroyed and getting discarded are two different ways of entering the graveyard, another way is by being consumed from the hand or deck, and they all trigger different things, so in that regard there is nothing wrong with the descriptions (Regis HV no longer activates the discarded effect now, that was a bug).

I agree that the main thing that should be rechecked completely is the wording for draws. While it may be considered a basic rule that gold units are only affected when that is stated specifically, the same cannot be said of gold cards (draw effects, target revealed cards in hand, play cards directly from your deck or your opponent's deck, etc).

Examples: before, calveit did not specify golds or non golds, and he could play any type. Spies still do not specify gold or non gold, and they can draw whatever. Xartishius does specify golds included, treason does not specify yet it cannot play golds.

I think for the most part, for units it's consistent. For cards it isn't at all.

 

[Ihear_BlueColors]

Being destroyed and getting discarded are two different ways of entering the graveyard, another way is by being consumed from the hand or deck, and they all trigger different things, so in that regard there is nothing wrong with the descriptions (Regis HV no longer activates the discarded effect now, that was a bug).

No. Wait. Let's be clear.

Your discarded cards are your graveyard. And the vice versa is true.

Destroyed. -> remove from play: target unit on a player's board is removed and then placed card into the graveyard of the player's board this unit/card was on.
Discard. (effect from an opponents units/cards) -> your opponent removes the card(s) from their hand and places it into their graveyard.
Discard. (effect from your units/cards) -> remove the card(s) from your hand and place into your graveyard.

Re:discarded/graveyards. Consumed.
A consumed unit on the board is destroyed.
A consumed unit in your hand is discarded.
A consumed unit in a graveyard is banished.

A banished card is removed from play.

 

[Ihear_BlueColors]

Re:gold cards. Unless specified gold cards are confusing because nothing effects them? Positive or negative. Unless you demote them to silver.

 

[Skryba86]

No. Wait. Let's be clear.

Your discarded cards are your graveyard. And the vice versa is true.

Destroyed. -> remove from play: target unit on a player's board is removed and then placed card into the graveyard of the player's board this unit/card was on.
Discard. (effect from an opponents units/cards) -> your opponent removes the card(s) from their hand and places it into their graveyard.
Discard. (effect from your units/cards) -> remove the card(s) from your hand and place into your graveyard.

Re:discarded/graveyards. Consumed.
A consumed unit on the board is destroyed.
A consumed unit in your hand is discarded.
A consumed unit in a graveyard is banished.

A banished card is removed from play.

What makes you say a consumed unit in your hand is discarded? A consumed unit in the deck isn't discarded, it's just consumed and put into the graveyard. The thing with discard is that it triggers certain criteria. Unless an effect states the card will be discarded, it should never trigger this effect, and therefore cannot be considered as a discarded card.

Consumed units on the board are indeed destroyed, and that isn't referenced in the effect, but it should be. The same way that a consumed unit in the GY is banished, and that (I believe? Not sure for katakan's effect) is mentioned in the effect.

 

[Iuliandrei]

Being destroyed and getting discarded are two different ways of entering the graveyard, another way is by being consumed from the hand or deck, and they all trigger different things, so in that regard there is nothing wrong with the descriptions (Regis HV no longer activates the discarded effect now, that was a bug).

I wouldn't call that a bug since it was perfectly in line with the mechanic description, it was more like an unintended consequence which imo they shouldn't have changed.

Regarding the gold interaction i'm ok with how they deal with them on the board but i think for the deck should be a rather different rule, meaning golds should be included by default, especially when using the word "Draw", very common in card games.

 

[Skryba86]

It wasn't perfectly in line with the mechanic description because it doesn't state that the consumed card is discarded. For consistency, anything that triggers a discard-triggered ability needs to state that the card is discarded.

Discarded isn't just "put into the graveyard from anywhere but the battlefield". It's specifically discarded, even if it sounds the same, it isn't (or shouldn't be, otherwise it leads to interactions that happen when they wouldn't be expected to happen).

Regarding the golds (both units and cards), I believe every card should mention if they affect only silver/bronze or if they affect golds. Even if it "costs" a bit more space in the description, it's much better in order to avoid unnecessary complications.

 

[Ihear_BlueColors]

I was describing the action. If cards in your hand behave different when destroyed then discarded then before this game leaves beta there better be a collection of rules, the order of some operations / strn / boosts / damage / when special cards take effect, clarification on the diseased cow - it's effect is a special one and not damage... etc. pages of clear definitions that don't contradict.

A rule-book. If you will.

 

[Iuliandrei]

It wasn't perfectly in line with the mechanic description because it doesn't state that the consumed card is discarded. For consistency, anything that triggers a discard-triggered ability needs to state that the card is discarded.

It actually does, the description for both "Discard" and "Consume" hasn't changed after this hotfix.

Discarded isn't just "put into the graveyard from anywhere but the battlefield". It's specifically discarded, even if it sounds the same, it isn't (or shouldn't be, otherwise it leads to interactions that happen when they wouldn't be expected to happen).

This is your opinion, i doubt you could find any example for this.

 

[Skryba86]

What do you mean I couldn't find any example? CDPR just changed an interaction so that a card consumed from the deck, aka put into the graveyard from the deck, doesn't trigger a discard-triggered ability.

They stated plainly it wasn't intended to work like that, and they fixed it.

Yes, it is my opinion that in order for something to trigger an effect it needs to have the correct wording to indicate that it will do so. And apparently, it is CDPR's opinion as well.

The description for discard says what you need to do when a card tells you to discard. It doesn't tell you that any card moved from the hand or deck to the graveyard is discarded, it just tells you that if a card says you need to discard a certain card, then what you do is you pick that card and move it to the graveyard from wherever it is. Those are two different things entirely.

 

[BILBO.BAGGINS]

Another very bad description: Summoning Circle.
I played a Trapper and placed the trap on the siege row. Opponent played, from hand, a Priestess of Freya, her deploy ability triggered normally, she resurrected a card and then got killed by the trap. I played SC, thinking i'm going to get a Priestess, and instead, got a Ship the opponent had played before the Priestess. It could be a bug, but i doubt it. The description should make clear that with SC you get a copy of the last enemy card that was played from hand and is present on the board. Also, it would be good to know that SC doesn't work with ambush cards.

 

[Skryba86]

Humm wasn't the resurrected unit a ship? Even it didn't make much sense, I can see the game recognizing that the resurrected card was the last card played, and so that's what gets copied. Simply ignoring the priestess would be petty weird, though xD

As for ambush cards, I'd say it'll probably work once the ambush is revealed, if no other units have been played until then by the opponent. I say this because an ambush isn't an enemy until it's revealed, so the game shouldn't recognize it as such until it is.

 

[BILBO.BAGGINS]

Humm wasn't the resurrected unit a ship? Even it didn't make much sense, I can see the game recognizing that the resurrected card was the last card played, and so that's what gets copied. Simply ignoring the priestess would be petty weird, though xD

As for ambush cards, I'd say it'll probably work once the ambush is revealed, if no other units have been played until then by the opponent. I say this because an ambush isn't an enemy until it's revealed, so the game shouldn't recognize it as such until it is.

The card description is: last enemy played from hand ( so, no resurrected, summoned, spawned enemies can be copied ). It could be a bug... I guess i'll just contact support to make sure.

I can see your point about the ambush card.