More accessible rank 21

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More accessible rank 21

I am sure someone broached the subject before, but I think Grandmaster rank 21 is too hard to get and point system should be made more generous so more players could attain it.

It was a 3 months long season and I doubt all top 1000 accounts (not players because some people have more than one in top 1000 :D) will get to 21 rank. Top 1000 are supposed to be viewed as elite, less than 1/1000 of player base with specific end season rewards so it makes no sense not even they could get to 21 rank IN 3 MONTHS. Leave it like this and what would next seasons batch of 21 rank look like

So CDPR you should based on the current engagement of the top 10k players make it so 2-3k players could get to the 4500 MMR in a two months, paying no attention to the inevitable 100 or so >5000 MMR guys, they get the prestige from two digit rank and avatars, borders and titles in the end.

I am not criticizing CDPR, they are more than good to their players and this is beta which serves to polish (yup, could be viewed as pun since Poland now stands for great game design) the game, just a suggestion.

And before "Git Gud" is mentioned I must inform you I am 20 rank, one good streak from 21 and didn't play Ranked for, in all, more than 45 days this season for various reasons.

 
CDPR has already made ranked more accessible. Now, a lot of players are even complaining that gaining ranks is too easy and ranks below 20 doesn't mean anything any more. What we need is not rank 21 being made more accessible, but rather have a better spread across the ranks.
 
4RM3D;n9339151 said:
CDPR has already made ranked more accessible. Now, a lot of players are even complaining that gaining ranks is too easy and ranks below 20 doesn't mean anything any more. What we need is not rank 21 being made more accessible, but rather have a better spread across the ranks.

I know about that, I am not complaining for my sake because I want to coast to rank 21 in the everyone gets the trophy environment.

It is about numbers for me, top 1000 are super special and they should be they are less than 0.1% of players and that fraction will get even smaller, obviously CDPR agrees since they get avatars and titles and stuff and are prominently featured on the leader board for all to see anytime.

If all of them won't be rank 21 is than more exclusive than top 1000. Would it be akin to participation trophy if 1% of players every season got to 21, would it be unfair? No it would not it is 1% but I am not proposing that, 0,2-0,3% is even more exclusive but still attainable to people who are dedicated and know what they are doing.

And bear in mind the seasons will last two months, it's much much shorter than 3, and still in those long 3 months not even all top 1000 elite of elite of players got to the rank 21.

As for the spread I agree, it is ridiculous to get to the 17 rank with 35% win rate or something, but I am not talking about how easy it is to get to rank 19 or 20 I am talking specifically how hard it is to get to 21 and I know how hard it is because not even all top 1000 manage to do it.

While I am not currently rank 21 I am hoping to get there soon, not fretting much since I haven't played for a large chunk of season and I do aim for top 1000 next season if all goes well and I have the opportunity to play regularly, but I am still for making rank 21 more accessible, it doesn't cheapen the top 1000 players a bit, since they will still have their triple, double or single digit ranking and pimped profiles no matter the another thousand or so rank 21 players who are below them.
 
Member when I asked for this?

Currently like top 200 have rank 21, it is ridiculous on so many levels.

Grandmaster title should designate the top players (not the same as pro players or top competitors). Top players should be constituted to encompass top 1% of player base. So much more than 200 or so or even 500 which is unlikely to happen in 13 days.

With the introduction of Pro Ladder trying to separate real pros or top competitors from the rest of the players in Ranked is absurd. You know were to find them, in the first 10 pages of Pro Ladder scores. Further more, adding just 200 or so new players into Pro Ladder is nothing, it currently has 15000 players, so it less than 1% additions. Btw I am already on Pro Ladder and will stay, so it's not me wanting to claw my way there.

Now that competitive side of it is missing, Ranked should be less punishing to climb, to the very end. Ranks should be evenly distributed like 4-5% each. Even if Grandmaster is taken as some pinnacle of achievement, I think in Ranked at least 1% of active players should attain the rank 21 in the end of season.

My observation about prestige of top 1000 in comparison to rank 21 is made even more glaring now. Not all top 1000 players getting it is ridiculous. Lowest number of players to attain rank 21 each season should be like 4000-5000, and ranking system should be balanced around that goal.
 
The system needs revision. There is an requirement in Pro Ladder to play with different factions in order to get more points so you can climb to the top. Yet the (unspoken) requirement in the Regular Ladder is for the player to be able to play just one faction and to grind with it till he goes insane, which leads to some just pathetic plays in the PRO Ladder (as proven from numerous videos).

I get the idea that not everybody has full collection of cards, but in order to get to the Pros (or at least a certain Rank), one should be actually ABLE to play with more factions. I think a regressing MMR point gain for playing with the same faction or two should be added in the Regular Ladder, similar as the one in the Pro Ladder, once you reach a certain Rank. This will make climbing games more diverse and generally the game fun to play on the Regular Ladder and will also put actually players that can play the game with different factions in the Pro system. Also this will make some of the rewards more accessible and not frustratingly hard to get to (stuff like a certain Avatar, that should not be that hard to get to, in my opinion - borders are a different beer (ale, scuse my Eastern European)).

Maybe start this regression at Rank 21, while till Rank 20 you have a decent flow of MMR points (slightly higher amount for a win than the one we have right now) and make the Pro Ladder available at Rank 30 or 31. The idea is, at Rank 21 one should already have a decent collection of cards so he can play decently with at least with two Factions, that will allow him/her to climb at least a bit faster with the regression than if he/she's having cards for just one Deck from one Faction, killing all the diversity in 80% of the games and achieving laughter when he goes "Pro" (which is the case right now).

Also, speaking of rewards - the leveling rewards after a certain level should include Avatar or a Border, instead of a card. I assume after a certain level and tons of games played, one does already have a full collection of cards and a bonus Gold Card or Kegs or Ore or Scraps is something like "Meh, whatever", but a Border or a Avatar for reaching lvl 60/70/80/90 and for damn sure 100 is something that should be rewarded as something special for that player, who had dedicated so much time playing the game.

(this you get when you wake up early in the morning)


Regards.
 
partci;n9711001 said:

Ranked ladder system needs revision that is for sure, it is one of the urgent things Gwent needs. Rank 21 shouldn't be exclusive to 200 or so players, I can guarantee that was not the intention of CDPR when they made the system. It should abandon all pretense of exclusivity. Even before top 1000 had their names and positions on the ladder, they were planned to be true exclusive elite. Now even they are just glorified participants in qualification ladder, because really elite is on the Pro Ladder in the places that award Crown Points.

So no exclusivity, rank 21 should be something majority of dedicated and competent players should get each season so like few thousands 4000-5000.

Change MMR system so it awards more points for a win, or at least equally as for loss up until rank 21. Then implement the current system after rank 21 so the players will have highly competitive atmosphere chasing top 1000 spots. Then decide that either top 1000 or all rank 21 go to Pro Ladder, depending on you view on ideal scope of Pro Ladder. Either way boosting Pro Ladder engagement should be easy to achive, just enable getting regular rewards on Pro Ladder, it doesn't mess with Masters system or guidelines so it is easy to just transplant, 4500 MMR on Pro, rank 21 and end of story.

 
We already know your opinion about this topic. You don't have to post 1000 comments saying the same thing (there are a lot more people than 200, who were above 4.5k at some point this season btw). In my opinion reaching grandmaster should be a great achievement. If it's too easy to reach no one cares about it. Additionally many people stop playing gwent after reaching the highest rank. If they do so after 3 weeks....
 
BornBoring;n9711661 said:
We already know your opinion about this topic. You don't have to post 1000 comments saying the same thing (there are a lot more people than 200, who were above 4.5k at some point this season btw). In my opinion reaching grandmaster should be a great achievement. If it's too easy to reach no one cares about it. Additionally many people stop playing gwent after reaching the highest rank. If they do so after 3 weeks....

How many more, like 500?

Should it really be more exclusive than being in a Pro Ladder? Or being in top 1000 on the same regular ladder? Everything points out to logical conclusion that being in top 1000 is what devs thought a greatest achievement, hence list with names and positions and special avatars, borders and so on, but you know that already since I wrote about it 1000 times.

 
I was thinking this to get to 21 is really hard like to get there you have to have a higher win rate the should be possible in this game.
 
As we near the biggest changed in history of Ranked ladder I would like to focus attention on this issue once more (probably the last time since I know how to take a hint).

This change to month-long season is perfect opportunity for CDPR to make Rank 21 more accessible and aim in the general direction of Rank 21 being attained by few thousand players every season as not to devalue great achievement like being placed in publicly viewable spots 1-1000 with it's own position dependent prestige awards.

In my opinion Pro Ladder is also devalued by this focus on Rank 21 as it is currently easier to get Crown Point(s) than to get Rank 21 which may change if Challenger qualifications remain but to get those thing even in the remotely same range is ridicilous. I don't know how will Pro Ladder entry now work since there will be two Ranked seasons for each Pro season, but if CDPR holds a view of making Pro Ladder more exclusive, which would be mistake as it is already starved for players, they could implement the elegant solution of allowing only top 1000 or 500 or 100 of new players from each Ranked season.

Now with shorter season the pressure is even higher, you could miss a week or two or more of every season and not worry to much about ability to place high, but now two weeks is half of season and every break can make it impossible to claim to Rank 21.

So relax the requirements for the Rank 21, it should be something every good, dedicated player can reasonably aim for, highly competitive players have additional prestige and rewards from placing in numbered spots 1-1000, those are the things that should be more exclusive and more prestigious than Rank 21, as it was clearly the intention.
 
As someone who is not succeding in reaching rank 21 i am actually ok with it being hard to reach as it is.
My issue is more on pro ladder entry requirement which i think should be lower especially with seasons being halved.
 
nemirni;n10013831 said:
As someone who is not succeding in reaching rank 21 i am actually ok with it being hard to reach as it is.
My issue is more on pro ladder entry requirement which i think should be lower especially with seasons being halved.

I really don't know why would you think that way, especially since there is whole next tier of rewards that should be harder to reach than Rank 21, not to mention Pro ladder placement and CP.

I am not saying make it easy, just tune it so it is probable that few thousand players each season will reach it.
 
I don't think top 1000 should be harder than GM partially because i find the gm reward more appealing than top1000. I am really ok with it being a "very" exclusive and hard to reach club. I am just not sure if the consequences of that reflect well and fair on proladder. On the other hand having top 1000 as a proL entry requirement would be more appropriate imo.

 
nemirni;n10014141 said:
I don't think top 1000 should be harder than GM partially because i find the gm reward more appealing than top1000. I am really ok with it being a "very" exclusive and hard to reach club. I am just not sure if the consequences of that reflect well and fair on proladder. On the other hand having top 1000 as a proL entry requirement would be more appropriate imo.

Well in that perspective you would get the GM reward and also vanity items to show of prestige of being top 1000 on top of being on public list with designated places. Also top 1000 rewards are different every season and as such are clearly thought of as next level in consideration to Rank rewards.

I mean after all you are OK with the current state but do you really think it is better than alternative I proposed, would you mind having 3-4k or so Rank 21 players every season?
 
I wouldn't mind, but i don't think it is better:).
GM for me is the ultimate title, but if they change that i certainly wont be sad about it.
But we do agree that proladder has issues the way it is now...

 
nemirni;n10014411 said:
I wouldn't mind, but i don't think it is better:).
GM for me is the ultimate title, but if they change that i certainly wont be sad about it.
But we do agree that proladder has issues the way it is now...

OK, agree to disagree :D

Yeah, Pro Ladder is having some issues not format related but minor tweaks that could and should be made, bigger player pool would be nice but it doesn't mean much if it remains exclusive casual for all except like 100 players, I don't know have you checked out but I have wrote about that issue previously.
 
Rank 21should be hard to get, but not prolader requirement, that should be 20.
i got to 4350 with my eredin variant (no iris,raiders) and i dont want to netdeck to climb more.
I see only netdecks at this level

PS. I once beat a "netdeck grandmaster" who used double iris on me because he didnt count his units...
 
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Pruny;n10021021 said:
Rank 21should be hard to get, but not prolader requirement, that should be 20.
i got to 4350 with my eredin variant (no iris,raiders) and i dont want to netdeck to climb more.
I see only netdecks at this level

PS. I once beat a "netdeck grandmaster" who used double iris on me because he didnt count his units...

Again no one is saying make it participation trophy, just a little more accessible to the very good players who are among 3-4k or so best players on Ranked ladder. Best among them will still get their due with season specific vanity items and sheer prestige of being in publicly available list ranking 1-1000
 
Right now we have tons of players unable to reach their goal, the Grand Master title. They try month after month, season after season, but it's such an exclusive award, that most of them will never reach it. Most of them don't even care about the esport aspect, they just want the cool border and avatar, maybe some kegs. From a psychological standpoint, creating an unachievable, elite award within a game sooner or later alienates players unable to reach it. Rewards like avatars and borders should never be frustratingly hard to get. I think the sense of satisfaction is very important for retaining a player base. Titles might be a different thing, but that's where I'd draw the line. I think no game should dangle a carrot in front of the players, which over 90% of them won't be able to reach.

So what's the solution?

In my opinion, one ladder. The rewards should stop at a certain level, reasonably attainable for most of the players, let's say 20. If you worry that the players will accumulate kegs too fast, reduce the overall number, but allow people to get them all. I think it's much better solution for everyone's sanity. Then the pro grind should begin. This way anyone with enough dedication could unlock all the content and be satisfied with it. But then, to live like a pro and advance up the ladder above that point, requirements for playing different factions could be introduced and we could have a pro-player ranking similar to what we have now. But in my opinion it should be seamless. Ranked and Pro worlds shouldn't be separated with an artificial wall.
 
MaroonJack;n10023481 said:
Right now we have tons of players unable to reach their goal, the Grand Master title. They try month after month, season after season, but it's such an exclusive award, that most of them will never reach it. Most of them don't even care about the esport aspect, they just want the cool border and avatar, maybe some kegs. From a psychological standpoint, creating an unachievable, elite award within a game sooner or later alienates players unable to reach it. Rewards like avatars and borders should never be frustratingly hard to get. I think the sense of satisfaction is very important for retaining a player base. Titles might be a different thing, but that's where I'd draw the line. I think no game should dangle a carrot in front of the players, which over 90% of them won't be able to reach.

So what's the solution?

In my opinion, one ladder. The rewards should stop at a certain level, reasonably attainable for most of the players, let's say 20. If you worry that the players will accumulate kegs too fast, reduce the overall number, but allow people to get them all. I think it's much better solution for everyone's sanity. Then the pro grind should begin. This way anyone with enough dedication could unlock all the content and be satisfied with it. But then, to live like a pro and advance up the ladder above that point, requirements for playing different factions could be introduced and we could have a pro-player ranking similar to what we have now. But in my opinion it should be seamless. Ranked and Pro worlds shouldn't be separated with an artificial wall.

Just right, Rank 21 should be attainable to all dedicated and good players (like 50-something win rate), further competition among very best already has so many avenues, fighting for top 1000 spots and prestige from being on public leaderboard and exclusive season restricted vanity items (titles and even the current border system of progression are OK, I maybe would abolish the top 1000 avatars) and of course esport competition of Pro Ladder.

Rewards are fine, 10 kegs is not that much especially to veteran players (not to mention those with full collections) and comparing to Rank 20 reward of 400 meteorite powder which is objectively harder to get by daily grind. You get like 3 kegs for Tier 2 dailies every day and with that now really bad system of Common cards kegs aren't prime commodity but just source of on average 70 scraps. If they want to make it 8 kegs (Rank 18 is 7 so keep the increment) it would be fine with me though.

That solution will not be implemented, they spent too much effort on Pro Ladder to ever abolish it so it is unlikely it can happen. There are two distinct problems there, and I am trying for a few months to get them both adressed, first is unaccessible Rank 21 which is annoying and second is lack of engagement in Pro Ladder because only top 20 (if Challenger qualifiers became a regular thing case could be made for including top 200) players can hope for something. With like 10000 players in Pro Ladder that is insignificant percentage.

When we go to the percentages your figure of 90% percent is underestimating the problem, maybe if you count only dedicated and good players who should have earned the reward by now. Around 500 people go the Rank 21 in each Season and most of those are the same people, while player base numbers millions, so it's more like 99,999% of players won't be able to reach Rank 21.

Anyway we totally agree about the main point which is the topic of this thread.
 
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