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Emhyr mill is the worst thing to happen to Gwent in ages.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by partci View Post

    Strategy?

    Exhaust your opponent's resources?

    It's war out there!
    Filthy Nilfgaardians will do anything to conquer the north heh.
    Anyway My point is that at least in yugioh,a card game with over 10k cards,there are at least 200 cards to help you counter this strategy.While in gwent those cards are super limited,some of them are locked in specific factions too.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by burek18 View Post
      Mill is NOT able to completely mill you if you don't thin at all.
      That is not true if their Avallac'h combo all went good. I've done much calculations on how much cards I can mill with the deck. I'll just list them here I guess:

      - Avallac'h, then Renew Avallac'h, usual Avallac'h combo that replays him 3x, then Albrich and Sweers. This can actually mill 26 cards deck that doesn't thin itself at all. That routine mills by 11-13 cards (the variable number comes from Sweers). Which if Sweers didn't mill anything, would leave you with 1 card remaining if you play a 25-cards deck.
      - Same as above, but without Renew or Summoning Circle, would mill by 9-11 cards.
      - If Avallac'h got killed twice: Albrich, then combo for replaying him 3x, and Sweers. This would mill for 8-10 cards. Without thinning your 25-cards deck, you'd have 2-4 cards remaining.
      - That 11-13 mill is NOT the max, since Assire can shuffle back Albrich or even Avallac'h. I've not counted any Summoning Circles as well.

      This deck can still be countered though, even just by not thinning your own deck. I can mostly Renew Avallac'h first before going to combo him, and killing Avallac'h twice is not the end of the deck since you can still replay Albrich. This deck doesn't run weathers, but it does run weather clears, and there's Merigold's Hailstorm in the list which is highly effective for long rounds. Also tbh, against a deck that usually thins itself much, and therefore runs much weak cards individually, I think this deck can out-value them depending on how things turned out. Atm I'm on around 15-1 with millfgaard, I'm still rank 15 though so don't mind that winrate. But the interesting fact that I've figured is that out of 4 variants of millfgaard that I've tried, only 1 can achieve that kind of winrate, as it still can win unfavored match ups as well (but I bet some is due to my opponent's missplays, low rank stuffs).

      Anyway, how you can win with Millfgaard, and how you can win against it depends on what list the mill is running, then it depends on how you play against them or with them. As with all decks, there are people that just get into the deck, so winning against them would be easier. In the other way though, there are those that don't know what the hell is happening in front of them. But mill's win condition nowadays lies in Magne Divisions, so basically you just need to have a bronze card in your deck so that they will still give you cards.

      Regarding the thread itself, I both agree and disagree with it. It's mixed up really. Millfgaard is one of the most complex decks in the game, both how to play it, and how to counter it, which gives players the unique experience of playing it, and facing it. But the idea of having a deck that pretty much has the upper-hand against most efficient-decks is somehow bad, right? I mean, most efficient decks would run some sort of deck thinning, and I've figured that even if you just thin 3 cards, it would still be pretty millable. I've said that even non-thinning deck is still millable, so...

      But oddly, CDPR just gave mill an even better win-condition than Tibor/Vilgefortz, which is Magne Divisions. And honestly, my mill deck is better with just Ava, Cahir, Stefan, and Renew line-up. Its win condition shifts to 3 bronze cards which is pretty crazy imo.

      Also, I almost forgot to mention. Mill decks that run Assire and Decoy can never deck out so long that they can keep using Decoy on their Assire (as long that Assire is on board. Killing her would make their deck unrenewable anymore). Something to put in mind if they over-mill themselves, or in mill mirror. When they shuffle back Decoy, they might want to use it on Assire, so this one is quite predictable.
      Last edited by overcold_ice; 06-09-17, 12:36.

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      • #18
        I've mentioned it before in a different thread: I'd like to see a doomed tag on Avallach. The ability to replay this card over and over again is just not healthy for the game.

        Or add a timer to cards who draw one or two cards on both sides.

        Or make A. a 7 strength unit so he's at least in A. Thunder range for all factions.

        Another problem seems to be that not all factions can put back cards in their deck, which would be a bit of a counter.

        The basic concept behind mill decks seems interesting to me but IMO there need to be better ways to work against it.

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        • #19
          I have a small suggestion on the matter:

          If a card that forces your oponnent to draw is played and the oponnent doesn't have more cards to draw from, generate a copy of a 5 strength Last Minute Soldier in his hand instead. This way, mill decks won't get the card advantage, but they still might be good for the strength of the cards drawn for those playing them.
          Last edited by Theodrik; 06-09-17, 17:07.

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          • #20
            I'm sorry, what is mill deck?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Ildun View Post
              I'm sorry, what is mill deck?
              Emhyr deck with tools to make your opponent draw all his cards, while you're left with some. This causes your Avallach/Albrich/Magne Division to draw you free cards + card advantage. Tibor is also a free 23 points card then.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Ildun View Post
                I'm sorry, what is mill deck?
                It's a deck whose goal is to thin opponent's deck of so many cards that they run out, preferably without running out of cards themselves.

                Nilfgaard mill can aim to use cards such as Albrich, Tibor Eggebracht and offensive Vilgefortz without the cards' usual drawback, which is opponent drawing a card.
                "I fear nothing but the fact that I'm afraid of everything." - Sunrise Avenue
                While I like to joke around a lot, anything written in blue should be taken seriously. When in doubt, click here.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Theodrik View Post
                  If a card that forces your oponnent to draw is played and the oponnent doesn't have more cards to draw from, generate a copy of a 5 strength Last Minute Soldier in his hand instead. This way, mill decks won't get the card advantage, but they still might be good for the strength of the cards drawn for those playing them.
                  I think that would be too bad for mill decks. Spawning them directly instead of drawing them would be better, since mill decks generally would lose a lot of card advantage in the early game.

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                  • #24
                    I don't know. I've been hearing horror stories of this but the few times I've come across it, I was able to hang in there. Thing is, I play NG myself so i have a lot of tools to make Avallach unavailable for spamming. Then again, I also had Assire, so I was able to keep up.

                    I actually tried a mill deck and it's not as grand as people think. It's incredibly low tempo and dependant on one card to do most of it's work.

                    Again, keep in mind that I play NG so I have the tools to fight this.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Snake_Foxhounder View Post
                      I actually tried a mill deck and it's not as grand as people think. It's incredibly low tempo and dependant on one card to do most of it's work.
                      No offense, but the deck does not entirely depend on Avallac'h. I can still win games even by just replaying Albrich instead of the usual combo. But mill decks are match up dependent generally, and highly player dependent on each match, from both sides. The player that mills need to know exactly what they should do, and so does his opponent. Also, Alba Spearmen can help their tempo, and the deck is fine going -3 so long that its opponent still thins their deck.

                      If by not grand you meant not fun, then it is. At least for their opponents.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sgt_Prof View Post
                        Well I do manage to counter mill NG with few cards like ESKEL, JADE FIGURE, CORAL, MANTICORE VENOM, LETHO. Jade figure/coral, letho can banish demoted avallach or Albrich. If you do not run those cards, you can use eskel/venom to kill avallach even if he was returned from the graveyard.
                        Wait, i thought Letho didnt banish the cards he consumed anymore since Gold Immunity update. Are you sure he still banishes? Because i stopped playing my Letho deck when i had seen he had been nerfed so hardly...

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                        • #27
                          I love the mill deck, didnt expect to find so much hate already for it. Then again, i absolutely hate Emhyr, and actually use Calveit on my mill deck, which limits my Avallach uses, but gives me the element of surprise. I also dont use Tibor, hate that fattie...

                          Maybe for the regular Emhyr mill deck users is easy to use, but i've found it really hard (unlike most decks) to properly use and actually succeed in draining your opponent, and ended only having like a 33% winrate with it, but when you do win it's very satisfying.

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                          • #28
                            I'm in two minds about Emhyr Mill. It's annoying if you have no answer, but then isn't everything in the game? It is good to see different win conditions, and I really wish they'd add a few more interesting ideas like Mill in the game.

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                            • #29
                              I hate this mill deck too although I have rather high winning percentage against it; just for one reason: it takes long time as hell to finish a game.

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                              • #30
                                The title summs it up pretty well.

                                In the past we've seen SC faction ability dominating card advantage. So what about the NG abuse of card advantage using Avallach 4x throughout the course of a match, drying the opponent of cards with total consistency and VERY few means of avoiding it?

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