The entire Northern Realm faction needs a buff

+
The faction should be able to compete on the highest ladder with other factions, otherwise game is not balanced properly. Why would I not stick with a faction, assuming that the game is being developed to satisfy players? Is it a smart move to put a faction in the dumpster? Is this faction in the game only to be ignored and never be able to rival other decks? Seems not very smart to me. And for the record, the "NR being bad" thing is going on for quite some time now, pretty much since the open beta and denying that is just sad at this point.
 
really, i play all factions and every season since first beta with more than 4000 MR every time and i can say that NR, while being the most interesting and most creative, is one of the most weak by now. (previously in old seasons it was not so bad, but it got defiantly worse)

PS: and actually fixing this would be quite easy, by just removing some restrictions:
* let play aretuza adapt any kind of bronze spell card, and not only weather hazards (=> it would result then in some interesting combos with ban ard tutors and maybe also the baron could get some revival)
* let blue stripes scout increase any unit with the same strength not only temarian units (so you could really try to go for once for a big swarm deck)
* let henselt summon any NR unit - not only kaedwen (with exceptions of reavers)
 
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Gemueseknolle;n9819101 said:
really, i play all factions and every season since first beta with more than 4000 MR every time and i can say that NR, while being the most interesting and most creative, is one of the most weak by now. (previously in old seasons it was not so bad, but it got defiantly worse)

PS: and actually fixing this would be quite easy, by just removing some restrictions:
* let play aretuza adapt any kind of bronze spell card, and not only weather hazards (=> it would result then in some interesting combos with ban ard tutors and maybe also the baron could get some revival)
* let blue stripes scout increase any unit with the same strength not only temarian units
* let henselt summon any NR unit - not only kaedwen (with exceptions of reavers)

Yaaas. So much yes to this. Just changing the A Adept as a start would be great. And as I've said before, all weather play bronzes should have the same strength for balance. The WH Hounds are 4, A Adepts, Elven Mercs, and Herbalists should be too. I'm also for balancing the VV Novices str as well and letting them pull weather.
 
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lemonsplitter;n9822071 said:
Yaaas. So much yes to this. Just changing the A Adept as a start would be great. And as I've said before, all weather play bronzes should have the same strength for balance. The WH Hounds are 4, A Adepts, Elven Mercs, and Herbalists should be too. I'm also for balancing the VV Novices str as well and letting them pull weather.
If every faction run the same units with different names, what's the point of having factions in the first place. No, please don't do that.
 
Theodrik;n9822441 said:
If every faction run the same units with different names, what's the point of having factions in the first place. No, please don't do that.

Where in the world did I say I wanted all the units the same with no point in factions? That's just getting carried away. The point being that the weather cards are balanced, so why not the units that pull them as well? The chances of mirrors are still pretty low across factions, and some players still won't run weather at all.
 
Damn got me thinking. Since they just transferred Braenn card ability into a bronze card , can't they just transfer Sile de Tansarville card ability into aretuza adept? And just rework how Sile de Tansarville works , like for example she could target silver / bronze spell in hand ( does not include Reinforcement since it's classified as Tactic ) and if she kill / remove something with it buff all mage by 1.

And just like @Gemeueseknolle said there are a lot of restrictions that need to be lifted and let me add to the list :
* Reinforcement should be able to target any unit card ( Right now mage could not be targeted )
* Kaedwani Siege Support ability should revert to his original ability ( boost 1 +1 armor if it's a normal unit , but if it's machine buff 2 + 2 armor)
- sounds completely broken but in game it's not even outstanding since you could not play more than 1 machine in each turn.
* Siege tower would give units beside it +2 armor ( helps protecting the very vulnerable crewman unit )

Btw i kinda forgot what is the previous effect of these cards so feel free to fix what I said.

Plus they should bring back the trio ability. Like seriously why would they completely remove this mechanic? It makes absolutely no sense to me since they are just nerfing the already weak faction and removing their Iconic ability.
 
Michelazz;n9822561 said:
Try playing henselt machine deck with battering rams and ballistas and tell me again if NR needs a buff

Played with the deck and the whole deck seems like a downgraded version of ST spell deck. Like seriously although the deck has a solid round 1 plan what's the deck gonna do in round 2 and 3? Hoping for a 30 str Bloody baron? when 50% of the time he didn't even reach 12 str .And like i said before it lacks power and the problem of Siege support and Masters , they could not stay in the board long enough for their crewman ability to has any kind of use. While Siege Master is a good crewman effect , BUT his base strength is 5.... that dude really need a 1 or 2 point buff to his base strength. And Skellige deck would just completely laugh at your machine and just keeps playing all of their card without even caring. Heck they would even give their thanks to you for damaging their unit

The deck could only win in a match against a Monster consume deck / swarm deck ( btw swarm deck is almost extinct in 3.7 k MMR++ ) and against any other deck this deck would have a disadvantage.
 
esra01;n9822831 said:
Damn got me thinking. Since they just transferred Braenn card ability into a bronze card , can't they just transfer Sile de Tansarville card ability into aretuza adept? And just rework how Sile de Tansarville works , like for example she could target silver / bronze spell in hand ( does not include Reinforcement since it's classified as Tactic ) and if she kill / remove something with it buff all mage by 1.

And just like @Gemeueseknolle said there are a lot of restrictions that need to be lifted and let me add to the list :
* Reinforcement should be able to target any unit card ( Right now mage could not be targeted )
* Kaedwani Siege Support ability should revert to his original ability ( boost 1 +1 armor if it's a normal unit , but if it's machine buff 2 + 2 armor)
- sounds completely broken but in game it's not even outstanding since you could not play more than 1 machine in each turn.
* Siege tower would give units beside it +2 armor ( helps protecting the very vulnerable crewman unit )

Btw i kinda forgot what is the previous effect of these cards so feel free to fix what I said.

Plus they should bring back the trio ability. Like seriously why would they completely remove this mechanic? It makes absolutely no sense to me since they are just nerfing the already weak faction and removing their Iconic ability.

Yes! This is brilliant, keep thinking. I hope they listen to these ideas. Upgrading the Adepts would give this faction so many more options.

I miss the the good old NR days too but if they don't want to reverse direction then at least really pave the way for something new. And as the Gwentlemen mentioned on their last talk show, something besides Shani+Stennis+DBHC as a finisher? Bc if a VV medic steals or Katakan(?Nekurat?grave gobbler) eats Stennis you really are finished. Or just make Natalis/Reinforcement be able target any NR as quoted.

Something other than machines being playable with finishers comparable to Tibor or Vilgefortz or Hjalmar or Vabjorn, please. Is a one card finisher possible for NR? Besides a neutral.
 
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esra01;n9822831 said:
Since they just transferred Braenn card ability into a bronze card , can't they just transfer Sile de Tansarville card ability into aretuza adept?
This is actually a very cool idea for this card :)

About trio tho, I don't think they are bringing it back, not to MP.
 
Michelazz;n9822561 said:
Try playing henselt machine deck with battering rams and ballistas and tell me again if NR needs a buff

I am spamming NR henselt all day every day, and I can tell you this. Get rid of crewmen on the board/play gold weather and we are done. Every faction has bronze cards capable of removing crewmen which are the key of henselt machines, when our(NR) bronzes need crewmen to do anything. Our bronzes are too easy to remove, and they only gain strength when not removed from the board early. New elven cards can destroy every crewmen instantly if you boost them, and there is plenty of ways to boost them and these ways synergize with ST cards. Same goes for nilfgaard and skellige. Every faction has strong bronzes, all but NR.
 
I made sure to read all the comments in order to correctly analyze what were people’s concerns regarding Northern Realms current state. All in all, I do agree with the gist of most points being made. I do, however, think most users weren’t able to correctly express their opinions in an understandable fashion and/or were unable to validate their arguments.

We have to understand that each person can only offer his opinions based on his/her experiences and knowledge, so it’s common that disagreements arise in topics regarding balancing issues. I will try to tackle what I believe are the biggest flaws in NR’s design concept. This will, most likely, be a long post, I am sorry for it, but I care a lot about the faction and I do want to help with as much as I can.

Why this sort of discussion started?

A new patch has arrived. Not only that but new cards. Catapult is the newest bronze card added to the faction. Now, I see two immediately recognizable problems about that. By comparison, every other bronze card added is being used in some way or another, but not only that. Every other card feels like it’s adding a different dimension to the way each faction can work. Catapult doesn’t. It’s more of the same, it doesn’t introduce something that the faction couldn’t do before (Dol Blathanna Swordmaster, Heymaey Battle Maiden, Slyzard) or a brand new interaction altogether (Venendal Elite). Catapult feels lacking…

Which leads to the second problem: It’s not a particularly good card as well. It’s probably one of the most situational and hard to set up cards in the game, and even when all the stars align and you’re able to optimally play it. It’s still, just as good as existing cards (Battering Ram, Reinforced Siege Tower).

So this, obviously, makes people worried. It makes us wonder if CDPR is able to recognize what NR has and what it needs. If they were just pushing a crappy card because they didn’t care about it or if they were lazy about it.

Why is CDPR trying to push crewmen / machines? and why they are doing it wrong?

Both Ronvid and Catapult fit into the same archetype. Ronvid is an example of a great card design that really added to faction( I don’t think you’ll find many people that can deny it ), but it’s targeted towards an already established archetype. It has great power and it’s finally a card that can be reliably played to guarantee a crewmen on the board. But when every deck plays Ronvid even if they don’t benefit from crewmen, it goes to show that there’s something inherently wrong with either the card or the faction. In this case, I believe it’s the latter.

Machines feel great to play with and it feels oppressive to play against. Because it offers something that most NR cards lack: synergy. Cards outside this archetype feel random, static, weak. Let’s try to give some examples to illustrate this argument:

Aretuza Adept - Wild Hunt Hound: It’s not unreasonable to compare these two cards. Hounds have one more power but have a fixed kind of Hazard, that seems completely fine, right? Well yes, Aretuza isn’t bad as a card. It just lacks a follow-up. Monsters have cards that synergize with Biting Frost/Hazard ( Wild Hunt Rider, Wild Hunt Warrior, Drowner and others). NR doesn’t. It could be argued that weather is good by itself, if so… then why monsters have cards to make it even better? Notice that the problem here is not that monsters have tools, is that NR doesn’t have them.

Redanian-Knight Elect, Kaedweni Siege Support, Temerian Drummer, Reinforced Trebuchet. All these cards are low tempo with over-time potential cards. Four cards that offer very little immediate value, with the “promise” of big rewards. Aside from “Siege Support”, they are cards that also offer NO inherit synergy with any other faction cards. That’s 3 slots bronze slots. There’s also Dandelion, Priscilla, and Odrin that fit the same category. It could be argued that Dandelion is not low tempo. Well, that’s a Drowner on a bad day, when there’s no weather; or a very sad, top-deck, last card Whale Harpooner. But on a good day, these bronze cards can offer way more immediate value than a gold card with a promise of a happy ending.

So what’s the problem? Gwent in its current state relies on coinflip ( problem for a whole different topic ), which means 50% of the time ( haHAA ) these cards will only hurt you. The other times, they can still be easily locked or killed. Why NR need 7 low tempo cards with overtime potential, that offer zero to no synergy?

Final thoughts.

Now there’s a lot more to address about cards that feel wonky: Temerian mulligan chaos, Field Medic/Dijkstra RNG factor, shield not translating into power with Stennis/Shani. But the underline is the same, machines are played because they are the only archetype that feels remotely decent while still requiring some kind of decision making. Playing NR nowadays isn’t as rewarding as playing other factions. It feels like your steps are predetermined from the moment you draw your cards.

I don’t want to extend it much further so I’ll end it here.

PS: Make Muzzle lock the unit, 16 points swing + added card ability is way too strong. Making a low-tempo with over-time potential card even worse when turned into a high tempo with over-time potential play by your opponent.
 
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can't they just transfer Sile de Tansarville card ability into aretuza adept?
actually that would be really helpful for more interesting combinations (you could play a mage deck with tutors instead of this boring machines).
the difference between aretuza adept and Sile de Tansarville should remain that only Sile de Tansarville redraws a card afterwards (like it is now already).
 
and got to say: very good post by ScieCode.
the only thing i disagree is the last point: Muzzle can be used in both directions. It already doesnt copy the ability so it is fine like it is now.
 
exuma92;n9817001 said:
I started this game in the middle of season2.
So I didn't have any chance to play "OP NR" ok?
I play gwent for fun, not for some rank point like you. On the other hand, I played this game because I enjoyed the sound effects and voices of characters whom I saw in the game. That's why I prefer NR than any other faction not because it is strong or op.

To be honest, justifying netdecking Pro's deck just to earn some rank points is shameful dude. Rank points system should work as an supplement element which aids you to enjoy the game by matching player with same level of yours. Netdecking destroys the fundamental of this period
Are you playing a card "GAME"? or just playing for meaningless rank points?
Please DO think.

Doesn't make any sense to try to tell other people how to play a game. In my experience people play any competitive game to win so they will try to find a deck that will help them win. This is not surprising in the least. Complaining about people getting help from the internet is pointless and nonsensical.
 
ScieCode;n9824381 said:
Redanian-Knight Elect, Kaedweni Siege Support, Temerian Drummer, Reinforced Trebuchet. All these cards are low tempo with over-time potential cards. Four cards that offer very little immediate value, with the “promise” of big rewards. Aside from “Siege Support”, they are cards that also offer NO inherit synergy with any other faction cards. That’s 3 slots bronze slots. There’s also Dandelion, Priscilla, and Odrin that fit the same category. It could be argued that Dandelion is not low tempo. Well, that’s a Drowner on a bad day, when there’s no weather; or a very sad, top-deck, last card Whale Harpooner. But on a good day, these bronze cards can offer way more immediate value than a gold card with a promise of a happy ending.
I agree that NR has many low tempo cards without any direct synergies, but there are a lot of indirect ones.
Due to Field Medics cards that are locked can be shuffeled back and come back later, in particular if you have another one of them already on the board. So as long as they aren't completly removed you can do a lot with them.
And Siege support synergizes well with all those cards summonening or playing another one, of which NR has more than plenty. It is only a bit weird that the siege support therefore works best, if you don't use siege.

What I think would have been great would be if the Farseer had been added for NR instead of ST, such that the buffing units get a bit more of synergy.


Also, I would like, if depending on the choosen leader all support and machine units would become part of his realm. So if Foltests leads your army, of course he commands all those units which are not directly part of any realm, too.
So far it doesn't change anything for Henselt and Radovid, as Henselts ability kind of includes this effect, and there are no cards having an extra effect for Redanian units, but it would allow Blue Stripe Scouts to target Support and Machine units, too, which isn't the case currently. At the same time it works only with Foltest, such that too oppressive plays in combination with Henselt wouldn't work.
 
Gemueseknolle;n9824431 said:
the only thing i disagree is the last point: Muzzle can be used in both directions. It already doesnt copy the ability so it is fine like it is now.

What ScieCode meant, is muzzle should lock the unit so that the enemy does not benefit from this unit's ability. For example, if you muzzle siege support it becomes locked and does not buff enemy units. Right now muzzling siege supports is incredibly powerful play because they keep buffing.
 
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What ScieCode meant, is muzzle should lock the unit so that the enemy does not benefit from this unit's ability. For example, if you muzzle siege support it becomes locked and does not buff enemy units. Right now muzzling siege supports is incredibly powerful play because they keep buffing.
yeah, understood. but that would simply result in a boring 8 points swap. i think the current version, where it doesnt trigger the deploy ability is just fine.
 
Just coming back from exam. Here is my general thought

When the realm tag first introduced I thought it could be a tool to make the game more in-depth but it turns out a nerf tool to NR archetype. We used to be able to hybrid between swarm/armor/machine but now except general KSS the archetype are basically fixed to a few cards and their realm. Needless to say how restrictive it is in deck building. There used to be a couple cards that tap into every archetype like old siege tower (Believe it or not I used it before nerf and it works with armor/swarm). Now these cards are simply gone.

The major weakness of NR is the weak control aspect. There is no graveyard hate option for NR and the control aspect of all NR units are pretty weak (1 to 2 base damage per shot, no movement, only reset), hence they can never deal with any skellige archetype even the most easily dealt with queensguard. Without Dethmold or Radovid, Enforcer/dragoon are also not removable in most case so just have to watch opponent develop. In short NR is unable to deal with snowball effect and anything skellige.

I have been trying blue dream DJ extra into reaver hunter these days. In lower rank yes this works but still unable to beat any form of skellige due to Coral & Lugos and high base strength of skellige. I'm surprise to find blue dream in some case is in fact better targeting opponent's gold instead of another DJ, for example pulling a Coral or Ge'el will probably more reliable than DJ.

What hit most on NR must be the reinforcement not able to target mages. Cards like Sile, Operator, Dethmold or Margerita could be central to a lot of NR deck and often a difference between win and lose. Imagine current restore only work on soldier & officer tag, this is how hard it is.

Keira on the other hand, despite people argue she can be good with aeromancy, but Northern realm really don't have that much synergy with weather, losing Quen is another huge hit to Machine/Reaver hunter archetype while epidemic would kill Keira herself is plain ridiculous. (Also 3 missnig point from tb potion, meh)

Nenneke no longer being able to shuffle special cards make sense in some way, I'm fine if she cannot shuffle horn but what's wrong with reinforcement/Decoy?

Blue strip Henslet tag nerf just simply killed hybrid synergy, don't know what's the intention of this. Henselt into reaver hunter could generate huge value but in no reason this is not counterable while bluestrip nerf simply limit swarm into only one realm, can't say it's reasonable nerf.

If we want to buff northern realm, I really want to enable cross realm hybrid again but that's not enough. The machines will require a higher base damge and better crewman bronze to achieve a higher upper cap, armor could use some support unit to regain or increase the amount of armor like old siege tower and swarm really need better mulligan tool, current tutor & Ves really doesn't help a lot. I also would like to see reinforcement get to pull mages again.

What I've not mentioned here is field medic. This card is simply having anti synergy with the buffing nature of northern realm and doesn't belong to any archetype, can't it just revive a bronze OR heal & give armor like armor smith? Either way would have better synergy than current medic.


There are much more card in NR than I mentioned require buffing but I think I shall stop here. Instead of buffing NR can we start nerfing skellige properly? This is ridiculous how they stay on top for this long after two nerf while nerfing NR only take one nerf to beat it to the ground.
 
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ScieCode;n9824381 said:
Why is CDPR trying to push crewmen / machines? and why they are doing it wrong?

They are trying to push skellige instead I guess. Based on what they give to NR machine I don't really think they want to push machine. If they want to push machine they would do what they did to push armor and boost the archetype by a lot. Now that's exactly what they do to skellige
 
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