As people have pointed out when you put all of your eggs in one basket then it's logical that a counter card like Sweers will ruin your day. It's the risk you take for only having one win condition.
Yykkla;n9840181 said:I agree, but I don't think the idea of having only one condition should be punishable by one card that doesn't require any setup. Especially one that's specific to only 1 faction. If there was a card that acted like a 'Sweers effect Multiplier' that would be more predictable and counterable. Nekker Consume relies on a specific card for their power, whereas a deck like Nilfgaard Spies relies on a specific card for their engine for their power. If a faction had a card with the ability "Banish all disloyal units from both decks" it would gain a lot more unpopularity despite it only heavily affecting Nilfgaard.
StrykerxS77x;n9844731 said:Honestly there is always going to a card or two that is amazing vs. certain decks. Scorch for instance is extremely good vs. any deck that relies on a lot of buffed units. I am playing a deck like that right now where if my opponent has scorch and maybe one debuff he can swing a round very quickly. My deck doesn't rely on just one strategy like yours does either. Now that I think about it using sweers on one of my cards would be pretty devastating but it hasn't even happened yet because Sweers isn't even used that often. That's kind of the problem with this thread. Sweers isn't OP in the least. It's only good a small portion of the time so I just don't see your side of the argument. If Sweers wasn't countering your deck then you never would have made this thread. That really hurts your argument.
I really don't see anything wrong with a niche silver card destroying a deck that only relies on one strategy. Especially a deck like yours that doesn't have a whole lot of counters.
Yykkla;n9845021 said:Yes, he isn't OP in the slightest, he's only crushing against the Nekker Warrior + Nekker combination specifically, which is my argument. I definitely agree that I would not have made this thread if it wasn't affecting my deck.
I do have to disagree though about the counters. I feel there's plenty of counters, it's just that opponents play them too late - eg, trying to shut down the Nekker train later rather than earlier.
If you play Hearthstone, the way I envision the Nekker Consume playstyle is like Jade Druid, and Sweers is like a class-specific card that removes all Jade Golem-related cards from your deck.
To me the game is less about strategy than archetypes - maybe that is why we disagree. I prefer to see the meta shift around archetypes, and not the other way around. Therefore, design should be appropriated around these archetypes, and not archetypes around design. Maybe some find that boring, but I personally prefer this method of balancing.
gigabomb;n9845281 said:Sweers make's a strong faction even stronger against certain archetypes.
Wonderboy8700;n10232822 said:I agree but I think he should be gold instead. Also reeks havoc on henslet, dwarves, reveal etc...
4RM3D;n10232852 said:Paris155 thread merged
Ironic, Consume is normally at the top of the food chain. But that one thing that keeps the archetype in check needs to be nerfed so that Consume can reign supreme? Let's not.
Also, Sweers can be countered in a Consume deck. Simply don't be greedy. Keep one Nekker Warrior in your hand and use Brewess: Ritual to resurrect your Nekkers. Sweers is not an auto-loss when you know how to play around him. Now, RNGstone or Decoy is a different matter, but that's a rare exception.
Now, now, we've been over this. In no universe is Sweers is gold worthy. Instead, try to find a way to tweak him. For example, by limiting the number of copies to 3, if you must.
Paris155;n10232902 said:Consume at the top of the food chain? What a joke. Everyone and their mothers is playing nilf, dwarves . Consume has many flaws nowadays. Keeping one nekker warrior in hand till the end just makes the whole strategy useless. Either you ll run out of copies fast, the remaining copies will have very low power, or simply you will not be in a situation with all 3 warriors readily available oh and the sweers user can always use decoy to destroy the rest of the nekkers or whichever card s copies he fancies. Brewess: Ritual is a completely useless gold i still regret crafting it. Resurrects 2 nekkers at base 4 power each.... And? most of the time we ll be close to end game not enough time to boost one or 2 more copies while having lost all the op ones. Plus Brewess: Ritual is way too situational to be useful all-around. It is a waste of gold slot. I insist Sweers can not be countered. Every other card in the whole game can be countered one way or another by every faction, Sweers against monster consume uncounterable, i believe limiting his ability a bit is completely fair. Otherwise go ahead, make cards like Succubus work on deploy turn, it will still be less OP than current Sweers
Wonderboy8700;n10232922 said:4RM3D, I agree there need to be ways to stop consume deck (compression, mandrake, vandergrift's blade, plus I already put up a thread about more doomed cards to stop revival and slylizard.) My point is (and has always been) that the effect is overpowered relative to every other silver in the game. Moreover, nothing ruins the fun of the game faster then watching your whole strategy evaporate in the first round while the enemy uses a draw deck and you no longer have enough cards to match much less win. In any event I decided to stop playing gwent because of the changes since midwinter (create and silver spy had me close, but cutting season rewards while adding points to reach top ranks sealed it for me.) I will check the message boards from time to time but that is it.
Wonderboy8700;n10244142 said:No other card in the deck allows opponents to take a card from your hand and place it in the graveyard.
Wonderboy8700;n10244142 said:iamthedave. Any good card (literally any good card) can be made meaningless by circumstance. Ciri nova can be igni or scorch killed. Igni can be 5 power if no row has 25 or more. Scorch can kill your own cards, etc... Sweers can be useless. For example if you run a shupe deck you only have a single copy of every bronze. That said, his effect is unique in the game. This is a fact. No other card in the deck allows opponents to take a card from your deck and place it in the graveyard. You are correct that some silvers may guarantee more points, but this does not make them better. You could argue that original geralt at 15 is better than triss butterfly which only guarantees 8. But given 4 units of the same power (and that they are the lowest units) you get 12 points on turn 1 and are up to 16 by the end of turn 2. Opportunity is the value, and sweers has the opportunity to destroy hands. If you use a henselt deck and wench approach that is 3 cards sent to graveyard. Nekkers sends more, dwarves send less (but brick more.) Anyway, this conversation is only valid until the developers give the players the option to exclude factions from opponent search. At that point NG will be boycotted until they fix sweers.