Outdated card stats

[TV_JayArr]

Outdated card stats

This is a quick thought list of cards whose stats simply haven't altered in the course of the last patches.
It is not meant to be a discussion about the general balance of a card regarding its ability or a discussion about whether the changes - especially in terms of tempo and the ratio of border to base strength - were good or not. Feel free to mention cards that I am missing, since I'll add them to the list. As I said those are the first that came to my mind, furthermore the stats I suggest are not thought through carefully, this is more of a spontaneous post.

1. King of Beggars - He is not able to catch up anymore with only 15 base strength at most. Probably 18 would be more fitting.
   Spoiler

   Regressing.
   

   1. Deploy, Brave: Strengthen self enough to tie the Round or to a maximum of 15 base Power.
2. Geralt - He is literally weaker than the Imperial Manticore, who got a Beast tag on top of the 13 base strength and offers even more synergy being a silver card.
3. Silver Spies - Those 11/12 Strength are a remaining of a time in which it was hard to overcome 12 points with one card. 15/16 would probably get them back to what they were used to be, unless they are meant to be a free card without losing the lead.
   Spoiler

   1. Cantarella - 11
   2. Thaler - 11
   3. Frighener - 12
   4. Udalryk - 12
   5. Yaevinn - 12

Additions:

1. Dun Banner Light Cavalry - Their activation or base strength probably needs a tweak.
   Spoiler

   4 strength; If at the start of your turn you have not passed and are losing the Round by more than 20 Power, play this Unit from your Deck.
2. Bloody Baron - Although it is not what hurts him the most, a higher Base Strength (e.g. 8) would help him a lot.
   Spoiler

   6 strength; If this Unit is in your Deck at the end of the Round, place it on top.
   Whenever an Enemy is Destroyed during a Round while this Unit is in your Deck, Boost it by 1.
3. Crones: Triplet
4. School of the Wolf: Triplet

References:

1. https://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...01#post9858801
2. https://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...01#post9859001
3. https://forums.cdprojektred.com/for...971-outdated-card-stats?p=9881501#post9881501
4. https://forums.cdprojektred.com/for...971-outdated-card-stats?p=9881501#post9881501

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

That is a great topic, which deserves attention

I agree with you, except on Geralt, because of his synergie with Pirate Captains and Spotters. Giving him more base strength would instantly make this combination much stronger. And giving Geralt enough power to make him worth as a Gold card, would make this combinations instantly too strong. So Geralt would need this extra strength as a buff on deploy or something different.

Another unit I'd like to suggest are the Dun Banner Light Cavalry. Neither their base strength nor their activation cap was changed for a long time.

 

[altaybek]

Beggar, Baron, Triss, Geralt, Yennefer Conjurer, Triss Butterfly all needs tweaks and/or reworks. Just look at GwentUp meta report to see which cards are the least popular and you may get an idea

 

[TV_JayArr]

[...]
I agree with you, except on Geralt, because of his synergie with Pirate Captains and Spotters. [...] So Geralt would need this extra strength as a buff on deploy or something different.

Another unit I'd like to suggest are the Dun Banner Light Cavalry. Neither their base strength nor their activation cap was changed for a long time.

The Clan Dimun Pirate Captain and Spotter synergy would be problematic indeed. I always liked the Brave ability, don't know why they removed it. This could be a change.

The change to Blue Stripes Scouts only boosting Temerian units only, surely hurt the Dun Banner Light Cavalry. Still its a manageable to proc - Thaler is pretty abusive in this regard, slow play is not that viable anymore however - 15 strength muster, with Foltest and careful mulligan. Dandelion still works on them too.

Beggar, Baron, Triss, Geralt, Yennefer Conjurer, Triss Butterfly all needs tweaks and/or reworks. Just look at GwentUp meta report to see which cards are the least popular and you may get an idea

Except Bloody Baron, those are cards I don't see the issue mainly in their base strength, and thats what this thread is about. Bloody Baron included they got issues with rushed, gruff and still not adjusted removal of gold immunity.

 

[OG.laloquaint]

This is a great topic. So many cards have been forgotten about. I hope that after the December update, CDPR takes the time to really look back at older cards that don't work well anymore and update them to be better.

 

[partci]

That is a great topic, which deserves attention

I agree with you, except on Geralt, because of his synergie with Pirate Captains and Spotters....

Yeah, because you see those so often.

I can name few cards too:


SCOIA'TAEL:

Hawker Support - 6 STR + 3 Buff is not that good. Still it sees play, but a point in STR or Buff will be better.

Dol Blatanna Archer - 6 STR and 3+1 DMG. In theory it should be good because of the alignment with Scorch, but since the mindless nerf to Shirru, when he can burn himself to a crisp and the Power of Bronzes going up to 11 at general, I haven't seen them in at least a month.


NILFGAARD:

Alba ARMORED Cavalry - pretty decent in theory but is lacking something... maybe ARMOR?

Black Infantry Arbalest - I think in most factions this card will actually be decent, but in NG it just does not have the right archetype to get a nice support. Maybe this will change with the added Crewman tag to the Engineers? Maybe it should do the damage when you have an Officer on the Board as well? Or maybe it needs rework, like 3 Base DMG and per 1 for every Soldier on the Board.

Alba Pikemen - I see them here and there, but they are just not worth it. I don't think a rework is needed, maybe just a boost in their STR by 1, but they will have a nice synergy with the aforementioned Arbalests last suggestion.

Nauzicaa Standard Bearers - they do have some synergy with the Soldier Archetype, but how many of those do you see out there? Some where saying they are the best Bronze Weather Cleaning card out there and still I see the others from the other factions, but the NSB are like the Halley's Commet - 9 Points on the board without nothing else is just BAD.

Nilfgaardian Knight - in some other faction maybe they'll see more play and if the Spotters were not changed they could have see even more play, but right now they are just not worth it to play in NG.

Spotters - the need something like Armor or Quen. There is nothing that can buff them to a decent size... besides Geralt, but sacrificing a Gold slot in NG for him is ludicrous. Maybe add a buff on Deploy when they will get an extra 1 point for each revealed Card in both Players' hands? This will give them synergy with the aforementioned NG Knight and they will see some more play.


SKELLIGE:

Clan Dimun Pirate Captain - same position as Spotters. Maybe in a bit better one, as they can go to around 20 if you use your Veterans A LOT.

Clan Dimun Pirate - OK, thinning, nice and dandy. At least give them the Veteran Tag or make them boost themselves while in the Graveyard for every discarded Card by 1. This will make Ermion see a bit more play too. Long Ships too.

Clan Heymaey Skald - RE - WORK. Or synergise them with something. Veteran tag. Something.

Clan Torrdarroch Shieldsmith - I see him a bit more often than once in a blue moon, but with the Graveyard hate they are just not worth it. Hey! That's an idea! Give them the ability to SHIELD a Bronze Unit from Graveyard Hate. Something.


NORTHERN REALMS:

Battering Ram - yes, I do know it's the most efficient NR Machine out there, but I find it's ability boring and dull. I had suggested to make it a mini Geralt: Aard, 3 DMG and push one Unit to the back Row. It's a RAM, it hits and pushes things.

Catapult - ouch! Just Ouch! With an Exclamation Point. Just make it hit 3 targets - the one in the middle by 3 and the ones on the sides by 1, with +1 on the side targets per Crewman. I think this will be pretty cool and maybe have synergy with the aforementioned Battering Ram suggested change.

Reinforced Ballista - give it the present Battering Ram ability.

Trebuchet - this one I haven't seen in play, so I just can't wrap my head around it. It was dealing DMG to a whole row before, with the suggested change to the Catapult above... maybe make it do Vertical Damage? This will be neat.

Tridam Infantryman - make him like NG's suggested Arbalest, but boosting himself instead of doing damage. It will be way better than it is now.


MONSTERS:

Ancient Foglet - I had suggested to boost all it's copies in the Deck, Hand and Board by 1 while Fog is ticking. It will need reducing in it's base STR, no question about it, but it will make it a lot more playable, I think.

Ice Giant - this one boggles my mind since the beginning of times. Maybe add him a slight boost to the base STR for every other Ice Giant that appears in the same round? Like, the buggers are proven to come in hordes and be stronger while they fight together.

Wyvern - Needs. More. Draconids. Also Strengthening for Draconids in Hand and on Board will help a bit. Maybe also Strengthening with 1 per each will be even better.

The Deatwish and Relic Archetypes - they just need some new cards to get decent. I just can't judge them right now.



That's it. I think I covered all the Faction Bronzes. Am not having the STR to go to the Neutrals or Silver and Golds.


Need some boost too. :troll:

 

[TV_JayArr]

partci Justified mentions and interesting solutions. The only big issue I see, is that entire archetypes need to be reworked for them.

As far as the Hawker Support, the Dol Blathanna Archer and the Alba Pikeman are concerned, all of them could get a simple one or two point strenghtening to start things of. Distributing more Veteran tags could be good as well.

 

[altaybek]

There is nothing that can buff them to a decent size

Creating an archetype around spotters is meaningless (and always was) but that's how it should be. Just playing them as a middle card is good enough because they get the BASE POWER of whatever unit they choose. You can Venendal my highest unit or your own spy and still get full value of it from spotters. Buffing Mangoel to prevent it from insta removed would be a better solution for reveal decks.

 

[devivre]

As for Spotters... they easily get 15 (there are enough 11 strength target units) and there's not that much you need to do for that.
I think for a bronze card that's enough. I don't like the design of this card but it seems strong enough for a bronze card.

 

[Kerset]

Does anybody remember that there is card such as Cyprian Wiley? I play this game for quite long time but still didn't see anyone to use it.

 

[Sunsibar]

Does anybody remember that there is card such as Cyprian Wiley? I play this game for quite long time but still didn't see anyone to use it.

I just saw it today? Yesterday? I don't play that much though, so I can't say how often he appears, but at least someone remembers him

 

[Pounc3e]

I can name few cards too:

SKELLIGE:

Clan Dimun Pirate Captain - same position as Spotters. Maybe in a bit better one, as they can go to around 20 if you use your Veterans A LOT.
I do agree, Pirate Captain does need a slight buff to connect well with Veteran units to get the full most value out of him.

Clan Dimun Pirate - OK, thinning, nice and dandy. At least give them the Veteran Tag or make them boost themselves while in the Graveyard for every discarded Card by 1. This will make Ermion see a bit more play too. Long Ships too.
I agree, Dimun Pirate does need a slight buff or a rework completely to make him more useful, though combining with Ermion may do some justice for him by if discarded hr will gain strength or something else in general along with strengthening.

Clan Heymaey Skald - RE - WORK. Or synergise them with something. Veteran tag. Something.
Yeah I do definitely agree with this rework, could have him connect better with Veteran units.

Clan Torrdarroch Shieldsmith - I see him a bit more often than once in a blue moon, but with the Graveyard hate they are just not worth it. Hey! That's an idea! Give them the ability to SHIELD a Bronze Unit from Graveyard Hate. Something.
I don't agree with this change, as he is perfectly fine the way he is but I could be wrong maybe a slight buff or a rework of some sort...

NORTHERN REALMS:

Battering Ram - yes, I do know it's the most efficient NR Machine out there, but I find it's ability boring and dull. I had suggested to make it a mini Geralt: Aard, 3 DMG and push one Unit to the back Row. It's a RAM, it hits and pushes things.
I agree with this change for Battering Ram, though I feel I mentioned a Battering Ram change but unable to remember where I wrote this, but nonetheless, yes the Battering Ram should be able to push things instead of a hit. Ex. Deploy: Damage by 2; if destroyed then push 2 units to the row above and damage by 1. Fresh Crew: Repeat the deploy ability.

Catapult - ouch! Just Ouch! With an Exclamation Point. Just make it hit 3 targets - the one in the middle by 3 and the ones on the sides by 1, with +1 on the side targets per Crewman. I think this will be pretty cool and maybe have synergy with the aforementioned Battering Ram suggested change.
Though, I agree with this point but could use further tweak to the Catapult, ex. Deploy: Damage by 3; if destroyed, then damage 2 units on the opposite row on each side by 1. Fresh Crew: Repeat the deploy ability.

Reinforced Ballista - give it the present Battering Ram ability.
I do agree, though let me re-write to make your suggestion more clearer, give it what the current Battering ram has now, let it have that.

Trebuchet - this one I haven't seen in play, so I just can't wrap my head around it. It was dealing DMG to a whole row before, with the suggested change to the Catapult above... maybe make it do Vertical Damage? This will be neat.
Now this I do find intriguing, something new a machine giving damage vertically (units on separate rows) is a must in my opinion. Ex. Deploy: Damage by 1 on opposite row then damage another unit on the siege and melee row by 3. Fresh Crew: Repeat the deploy ability.

Tridam Infantryman - make him like NG's suggested Arbalest (Black Infantry Arbalest?), but boosting himself instead of doing damage. It will be way better than it is now.
Not too sure but do agree on a slight buff or a rework completely to make him more useful.

That's it. I think I covered all the Faction Bronzes. Am not having the STR to go to the Neutrals or Silver and Golds.

Other suggested factions, which you made I agree and disagree with few but the remaining factions, I have mostly covered that are in need of a tweak or re-work.

Note: You will find corrections and response highlighted in Purple.

Regards,
byExeplar

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

Does anybody remember that there is card such as Cyprian Wiley? I play this game for quite long time but still didn't see anyone to use it.

Never seen him a single time so far. But I guess that is fine as he is a hard counter to ambushes and therefore relies on ambushes getting op, to be played.

 

[tussauc]

These all seem like rather reasonable suggestions, I would like to see them spice up the base Geralt some: possibly just ramp him up to 17 or something.

 

[TV_JayArr]

Does anybody remember that there is card such as Cyprian Wiley? I play this game for quite long time but still didn't see anyone to use it.

I always tried to use him in decks, since the start of Open Beta.
His problem is that he used to be the hard counter to roach, which was an auto-include in most decks and had the option to counter deatwishes and ambushes on top of that. Nowadays he turned to be too situational. He is a counter to ambushes, deathwishes - if you get the chance to answer a deathwish unit, referring to Iris instantly getting killed with Impera Enforcers, or the Frost + Wild Hunt Rider insta-kill - and Nekkers. With Slyzard, it does not prove as decisive as it used to be to deny one Nekkers deatwish.

 

[BornBoring]

Silver Spies - Those 11/12 Strength are a remaining of a time in which it was hard to overcome 12 points with one card. 15/16 would probably get them back to what they were used to be, unless they are meant to be a free card without losing the lead.

I hope CDPR reads this. They should definitely be at least 13/14.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

What about the 3 Witchers or 3 Crones? They are cards, where the power only lies in their base strength and neither of them seem to be really popular currently

 

[TV_JayArr]

What about the 3 Witchers or 3 Crones? They are cards, where the power only lies in their base strength and neither of them seem to be really popular currently

Crones do see play, even at the Gwent Open #2. They were actually beyond ridiulous in closed beta.

 

[partci]

Last night I was thinking of some cards while playing and have few more suggestions, which I will share here cause doing a new topic seems kinda selfish (not that I am not a selfish man, but still):

________________________________________________

Clan Dimun Pirate:
Strength 5, Veteran

Deploy: discard all the other copies of this Unit into your Graveyard. If there is a Graveyard interaction from your opponent's side of the board with your Graveyard, damage the interacting unit with this Pirate's Strength, than banish the Pirate.
​

This guys can give some retaliation to the Graveyard Hate SK is experiencing against units like Archgriffins, Katak... err. Nekkurats and etc. Vico Novices won't be that much for a punish, but still - if Emhyr will want to bounce one back cause of his Emissaries, he won't be able to. I was considering to suggest something like, to keep the Pirates' current Strength and than Strengthen by 2 for each Pirate that enter the Graveyard, but it is too much like the Skirmishers.

________________________________________________

Cerys:
Strength 4

(retains it's old ability with the slight nerf to Strength, but) If this Unit is in the Graveyard and there are Queensguards in the Graveyard as well, they become resistant to Graveyard Interactions from the Opponent's side of the board.
​

It is only fair for the actual queen of Skellige to have some protection over her Queensguards, right?

________________________________________________

Swallow:

Heal a Unit if it's damaged and boost it's ongoing effect by 1, if it's Cursed, Banish it instead (Wild Hunt Longships will boost Wild Hunt Units by 2, Empera Enforcers will deal 3 Damage instead of 2, etc.).
​

Also was thinking of something like "Heal a Unit and boost it by 6 (or 4)", like a weaker version of the SK Armorsmith, but the boost to ongoing effects can be crucial for units like Longships or Mangonels or Marauders or whatever. It requires more strategical thinking and deck building, which is cool, right?

________________________________________________

Necromancy:

Animate a unit from either Players' Graveyard and apply the Cursed tag to it. If it is destroyed again or does enter the Graveyard after the end of the Round - banish it instead.
​

Simple as that. A better, elegant and effective solution.

________________________________________________

Vabjorn:

(retains it's old and pathetic ability BUT) also applies the Cursed Tag if the Unit was not Destroyed.
​

Some Swallow synergy here, right? Not to mention there might be some Units that will buff themselves if a Cursed Unit appears on the other side/row of the Board. I personally would change him completely, but gotta work with what we have right now.

I'm pretty sure I was thinking of something else as well, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was.

 

[Pounc3e]

Last night I was thinking of some cards while playing and have few more suggestions, which I will share here cause doing a new topic seems kinda selfish (not that I am not a selfish man, but still):

________________________________________________

Clan Dimun Pirate:
Strength 5, Veteran

Deploy: discard all the other copies of this Unit into your Graveyard. If there is a Graveyard interaction from your opponent's side of the board with your Graveyard, damage the interacting unit with this Pirate's Strength, than banish the Pirate.
​

This guys can give some retaliation to the Graveyard Hate SK is experiencing against units like Archgriffins, Katak... err. Nekkurats and etc. Vico Novices won't be that much for a punish, but still - if Emhyr will want to bounce one back cause of his Emissaries, he won't be able to. I was considering to suggest something like, to keep the Pirates' current Strength and than Strengthen by 2 for each Pirate that enter the Graveyard, but it is too much like the Skirmishers.

________________________________________________

Cerys:
Strength 4

(retains it's old ability with the slight nerf to Strength, but) If this Unit is in the Graveyard and there are Queensguards in the Graveyard as well, they become resistant to Graveyard Interactions from the Opponent's side of the board.
​

It is only fair for the actual queen of Skellige to have some protection over her Queensguards, right?

________________________________________________

Swallow:

Heal a Unit if it's damaged and boost it's ongoing effect by 1, if it's Cursed, Banish it instead (Wild Hunt Longships will boost Wild Hunt Units by 2, Empera Enforcers will deal 3 Damage instead of 2, etc.).
​

Also was thinking of something like "Heal a Unit and boost it by 6 (or 4)", like a weaker version of the SK Armorsmith, but the boost to ongoing effects can be crucial for units like Longships or Mangonels or Marauders or whatever. It requires more strategical thinking and deck building, which is cool, right?

________________________________________________

Necromancy:

Animate a unit from either Players' Graveyard and apply the Cursed tag to it. If it is destroyed again or does enter the Graveyard after the end of the Round - banish it instead.
​

Simple as that. A better, elegant and effective solution.

________________________________________________

Vabjorn:

(retains it's old and pathetic ability BUT) also applies the Cursed Tag if the Unit was not Destroyed.
​

Some Swallow synergy here, right? Not to mention there might be some Units that will buff themselves if a Cursed Unit appears on the other side/row of the Board. I personally would change him completely, but gotta work with what we have right now.

I'm pretty sure I was thinking of something else as well, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was.

Impressive! I like this idea of yours, I'm interested for this change to be added in a hotfix and/or patch.

Regards,
byExeplar