Ranked Play and Pro Ladder seasons ending soon!

[Esmer]

Still have plenty of time to climb.
Being left with 50 % of MMR instead of 33,33 % means it'll be easier to get higher next season, which is good since the season(s) will only last one month.

Not really. Even if you were at the top with, say, 4600 MMR, you will get back to 2300 instead of 1534. Climbing from 1500 to 2300 takes a couple evenings (you get like 60-70 points for a win and lose almost nothing for a loss). All seasons I played it took me longer getting from 4000 to 4200 then getting from 1500 to 2500.

And for players with lower MMR this difference will be even less noticeable.

Unless CDPR changes the MMR system, I really can't see how it's possible to reach rank 20+ in a month without playing 4+hrs a day.

Generally, I can't see a single upside of shorter seasons. Most likely they will become meaningless like in other CCGs with 1 month seasons, because core players (not even talking about casuals) simply won't have enough time to reach the rank they deserve.

For instance, I have 250+ hours in Gwent since OBT started, that's more than an hour daily on average. I had 70%+ winrate in ranked (until rank 18-19), and it still took me the whole season to reach rank 20, because after 4k MMR it becomes such a grind, and your winrate drops drastically since you face better decks and better players.

Sure, the simple answer is "you have to play a lot to reach top ranks". But the thing that was great about Gwent these first 3 ranked seasons: they are long enough so your placement is determined by skill, not the amount of time you can play daily.

 

[Draconifors]

OK, high time for me to say one last thing:

I was not taking into account anything except the fact that 50 % means a higher MMR number than 33,33... %.


For example ending a season with 3000 MMR for easy calculation:

33 % = 1000 MMR, 50 % = 1500 MMR. Let's say you want to reach 3k again; 1500 is much closer to that than 1000. Yes, it may be more difficult to climb from 2500 to 3000 than from 1000 to 1500 but like I said I was not taking such variables into the equation. I'll leave that to those who play competitively and actually care about such things.

Now please stop quoting me and posting lengthy explanations. Thank you.

 

[Lantea]

Not really. Even if you were at the top with, say, 4600 MMR, you will get back to 2300 instead of 1534. Climbing from 1500 to 2300 takes a couple evenings (you get like 60-70 points for a win and lose almost nothing for a loss). All seasons I played it took me longer getting from 4000 to 4200 then getting from 1500 to 2500.

And for players with lower MMR this difference will be even less noticeable.

Unless CDPR changes the MMR system, I really can't see how it's possible to reach rank 20+ in a month without playing 4+hrs a day.

Generally, I can't see a single upside of shorter seasons. Most likely they will become meaningless like in other CCGs with 1 month seasons, because core players (not even talking about casuals) simply won't have enough time to reach the rank they deserve.

For instance, I have 250+ hours in Gwent since OBT started, that's more than an hour daily on average. I had 70%+ winrate in ranked (until rank 18-19), and it still took me the whole season to reach rank 20, because after 4k MMR it becomes such a grind, and your winrate drops drastically since you face better decks and better players.

Sure, the simple answer is "you have to play a lot to reach top ranks". But the thing that was great about Gwent these first 3 ranked seasons: they are long enough so your placement is determined by skill, not the amount of time you can play daily.

Completely agree; If CDPR does not increase the MMR gain by 50% at least (to match the season lenght reduction) then it will simply be impossible to reach your actual Rank based on your skill level; I for one don't have the time to play 8h a day (or even 4h/day) to grind each month just to get back to Rank 19/20.
And what is the incentive to then play the game at all? When all you do is grind less skilled players in boring games without any challenge before actually reaching the rank you get some skill based competition at?
If they leave the MMR gain the same, I am seriously going to consider not playing anymore as there is little point to just grind low Rank matches to then be reset again before you have time to reach real matches that present a challenge for your skill level.

If CDPR does not want to change the MMR system to match the season reduction, then there should be an option to keep your current rank across seasons, even if you had to forgo the rank up rewards to do that; as I would rather play a game I enjoy at my skill level and lose some rewards then get rewards and play a boring grind fest.
As for the end of season rewards CDPR could have an e.g. minimum 50 matches played before you qualify for end season rewards, so that players who keep their rank don't abuse the system by not playing at all, but at the same time are not excessively penalised by losing both rank-up as well as season rewards.

 

[Esmer]

33 % = 1000 MMR, 50 % = 1500 MMR. Let's say you want to reach 3k again; 1500 is much closer to that than 1000. Yes, it may be more difficult to climb from 2500 to 3000 than from 1000 to 1500 but like I said I was not taking such variables into the equation. I'll leave that to those who play competitively and actually care about such things.

Your logic is fine, but it would be slightly faster to reach the same rank, not easier, because the challenge starts at 3000 MMR (correct me if I am wrong, but it's the point where you start to lose a lot of MMR for losses).

Actually, it would be better to reset each season based on ranks, not MMR. And that is exactly like many other ranked games handle the issue.

For instance, in Gwent rank 21-18 players could fall back to rank 17. Rank 17-13 fall back to rank 12, etc. This way the competition at the start of a season would be more fair. It would also take a bit less time to go through ranks that are below your skill level.

 

[Lantea]

Your logic is fine, but it would be slightly faster to reach the same rank, not easier, because the challenge starts at 3000 MMR (correct me if I am wrong, but it's the point where you start to lose a lot of MMR for losses).

Actually, it would be better to reset each season based on ranks, not MMR. And that is exactly like many other ranked games handle the issue.

For instance, in Gwent rank 21-18 players could fall back to rank 17. Rank 17-13 fall back to rank 12, etc. This way the competition at the start of a season would be more fair. It would also take a bit less time to go through ranks that are below your skill level.

The ranks are already nicely separated by colour, ... 12-15; 16-18; 19-21 so as you said and as was suggested months ago to CDPR, it would make sense to drop to the lowest tier of each rank colour instead of all the way down.
Not sure why CDPR is deaf on this grinding issue and insists players grind countless useless un-fun hours before being back at their skill rank; This also hurts new and less skilled people because at the start of each new season they are destroyed for days by skilled playes who are just climbing out of the lower ranks.

 

[Ljusrost]

If CDPR does not want to change the MMR system to match the season reduction, then there should be an option to keep your current rank across seasons, even if you had to forgo the rank up rewards to do that; as I would rather play a game I enjoy at my skill level and lose some rewards then get rewards and play a boring grind fest.

I think that this is an excellent idea. I honestly see very little reason to have the ordinary ranked play divided into seasons to begin with. I can see the point for the pro ladder as qualification for tournaments, but for ordinary ranked play I would personally prefer to play ranked without season grinding.

To me the most important reward for achieving a higher rank is to get the opportunity to test myself against more difficult opposition and thus always play challenging and interesting matches. Sure, I don't mind getting kegs as well, but I would easily give them up if it meant that I would always meet opponents at my own level. And please note that I write this as a fairly average player, I'm not a top player by any means, but it's more fun for everyone, at any place on the ladder, to play evenly matched games.

I think that ranking and matchmaking should be based purely on skill, with the requirement of "grinding time" being as minimal as possible. A reward system to entice players to play more matches in pursuit of kegs needn't be entangled into the ranking system but could very well be entirely separate.

 

[Theodrik]

I think that this is an excellent idea. I honestly see very little reason to have the ordinary ranked play divided into seasons to begin with. I can see the point for the pro ladder as qualification for tournaments, but for ordinary ranked play I would personally prefer to play ranked without season grinding.

The season is kinda needed for the ordinary Ladder aswell because it's the entry point for the Pro Ladder. I know that some players don't like starting over to climb the ladder again and again, but I've played other games with this season approach, and the % of players that don't play seasons is really a minimum. So they could do a non-season mode to satisfy everyone, but I believe there are many other things with higher prority to be implemented first.

 

[Kingoko]

Actually i like this grind every season start and prob many players like it too

 

[Lantea]

The season is kinda needed for the ordinary Ladder aswell because it's the entry point for the Pro Ladder. I know that some players don't like starting over to climb the ladder again and again, but I've played other games with this season approach, and the % of players that don't play seasons is really a minimum. So they could do a non-season mode to satisfy everyone, but I believe there are many other things with higher prority to be implemented first.

The fact that the Rank ladder is a stepping stone to the Pro Ladder would in no way be affected if the season system was changed or even abandoned, as you would still have to reach Rank 21 for which you need skill and not just endless grind.

 

[AVK1995]

To me the most important reward for achieving a higher rank is to get the opportunity to test myself against more difficult opposition and thus always play challenging and interesting matches.

That's precisely what casual mode does. It allows you to play against opponents of equal skill and it isn't reset each time. Also, since you do not care about keg rewards, you could keep playing casual. Another advantage of casual is that amount of deck diversity is casual is HUGE. It is full of innovative self made decks unlike 100% netdecks as in ranked!

 

[Esmer]

Actually i like this grind every season start and prob many players like it too

I like it only for the free rewards. I am calling them free because until I reach rank 18 or so I have ~80% winrate. But I feel sorry for the people I play against.

Another advantage of casual is that amount of deck diversity is casual is HUGE. It is full of innovative self made decks unlike 100% netdecks as in ranked!

I am speaking from my own perspective, of course, but casual has a lot of net decks. Moreover, whenever I try some silly deck in casual, I usually lose, because those net decks are much stronger.

The real deck diversity is in the pro league, which, sadly, is available only to ~5% of the player base at best.

 

[Ljusrost]

That's precisely what casual mode does. It allows you to play against opponents of equal skill and it isn't reset each time. Also, since you do not care about keg rewards, you could keep playing casual. Another advantage of casual is that amount of deck diversity is casual is HUGE. It is full of innovative self made decks unlike 100% netdecks as in ranked!

How does the matchmaking for casual mode work, though? I have played a fair bit of casual as well and my impression is that I may meet opposition from across the whole scale, from an opponent at lvl 50 and rank 20 one game and someone at level 15 and rank 10 the next. Level and rank is of course not necessarily indicative of win/loss ratio in casual mode, but it seems to me that opponent skill is likewise quite diverse in casual and that I go from steamrolling to being steamrolled from one game to another. My impression is that I get much more even matchmaking in ranked mode, which I prefer.

Has the matchmaking in casual mode been explained?

Another point is that I do like to have a visual representation of my current skill level, be it MMR, ELO, rank or something else, as a way to track my own progress and improvement. That's a minor point, but still one in favor of ranked mode as opposed to casual.

 

[Lantea]

That's precisely what casual mode does. It allows you to play against opponents of equal skill and it isn't reset each time. Also, since you do not care about keg rewards, you could keep playing casual. Another advantage of casual is that amount of deck diversity is casual is HUGE. It is full of innovative self made decks unlike 100% netdecks as in ranked!

Casual is full of people messing around with crazy non-competitive decks; and most people there don't care whether they win or lose as it has no affect on progress; I like to play a challenging game with people who play the best competitive decks and actually care about winning a game; that is nowhere near what Casual mode is for;

 

[Johnasss]

Rank up rewards is not a season end rewards. season end rewards i think will bet cut to half. maybe. but it is still the same if you earned after 2 months 18 kegs and from January only 9 for 1 month. but it will be great if CDPR will start explaining with some examples etc.

 

[Shuls02]

Casual is full of people messing around with crazy non-competitive decks; and most people there don't care whether they win or lose as it has no affect on progress; I like to play a challenging game with people who play the best competitive decks and actually care about winning a game; that is nowhere near what Casual mode is for;

Casual is just an extension of Ranked Ladder from my experience, just like someone else said earlier Casual has a lot of netdeckers still and thats because you can get your daily rewards farming "fun/original" decks.

 

[GothGirlfriend]

MAKE RANK 20 ENOUGH FOR PROLADER!
this meta is unbearable, i wont play stupid netdecks to get to 21
:mean:

Dude, it's for pro's, it's ur problem if u can't reach rank 21, seriously

 

[Sunsibar]

Please keep this discussion civilized and constructive. One post deleted.

 

[Lantea]

So now that the holidays are over can we finally get some clarification from CDPR on the countless questions in this thread please?

 

[Killduke]

Dude, it's for pro's, it's ur problem if u can't reach rank 21, seriously

No. It's not his problem. Netdecking reached intolerable level that ruin game for many players that would like have fun first, reach rank 21 then. Have more respect for other people, please. Your response is the perfect mirror of arrogant people that I encountered in game lately.

 

[partci]

No. It's not his problem. Netdecking reached intolerable level that ruin game for many players that would like have fun first, reach rank 21 then...

Absolutely 1000% behind this statement!

And CDPR can easily fix this by at least doing the Regular Ladder the same as the so called "Pro" Ladder after Rank 18.