What happened with Nilfgaard and how it can be fixed?

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What happened with Nilfgaard and how it can be fixed?

What happened with NG after the Hotfix? They were one of the top factions out there before that, with a lot of variety for deck building, with different win conditions, etc. etc. Than hit a patch, which KILLED an entire archetype dead (Spellgaard) and then a Hotfix, which pushed HARD for specific archetypes (for all Factions, to be fair) and pushed NG to face and stare into the corner of the room.

The Empire is still praised for having the best Silver Faction Cards in the game and also variety of tremendous Gold Cards, but still, they are struggling. They are struggling BAD in the Ladder and are being just demolished left and right, making them the weakest faction in the game by far right now. Still they have some interesting and fun to play decks (like Millgaard), but in general, their win condition is often struggling something fierce against other opponents. Even Tyborg is now way more often than not a perilous card to play. Even if you manage to Mill your opponent and have 2 cards advantage at the final Round, chance is you might end up losing anyways. You have Xarthisius and Treason as an excellent combo... on paper, but the synergy between those two cards is once again half-ass, as you can't target Golds with Treason, making the combo often unpredictable and frustrating to play (the thing that it is not explained how exactly it works between the two Cards is an whole other topic).

What happened?

Was it that the other Factions got better Buffs and better Synergies between their units, which countered The Empire so hard that they can't "retaliate" in a proper way now? Was it the small nerfs on some of their units (like Vicovaro Novices) that played a bad trick on them? Is it the thing that the vast majority of their cards are fixed on a single row, making NG way easy to predict and counter? All of this at once? What was it?

I just can't wrap my head around it and it is so frustrating to play with them, when you often just get obliterated in 3 out of 4 games, even with Impera Brigades, which can Buff themselves to incredible amounts for a Bronze unit and still can't keep with a lot of opponents decks.

Now, with the new patch, we'll get two new Cards for NG. One of which one looks like an absolute filler of a card and once again is FIXED on the Ranged row and the other one has questionable effect (if it does not ignore Armor it will be just another card from a pool of cool mediocre Cards that NG can chose from).

Doesn't seem like this will fix anything.
 
I tried to make a spy deck the last few days, but I had to encounter different Problems.

Problems I see:

-Emissary giving you 2 copies of the same card leads into dead-end and plays you don't want to do. (lining up for igni by being forced to Play the second Impera Brigade, palying medic round 1).
-Calveit no more able to pull Golds !!This leads to choosing a bronze Card most of the time despite having enough bronze thinning with Emissary, Medic and Novice!!
-Impera Brigade needs to be agile, they are just lining up for Gigni. You would still have to play around scorch by playing the second Impera Brigade after killing a spy.



 
Imo the only reason NG isnt competetive atm is complete lack of good carryover mechanics, like harpies, E.Elementals, Morkvarg, Olgierd etc. Yeah, we have combat engineer, but it's too low tempo, too commital and too disruptible to be competetive. I've had some ideas of tweaking NG cards to have that non-commital carryover, like this:
http://custom-gwent.com/cards/80911e4c69598953c120c5e00a9c27ac
If NG gets a good carryover unit it will be tier 1-2 again.
 
Nilfgaard did get nerfed hard. But Ive been playing a decent spy deck recently. I use Joachim, Iris, Cantarella, and Menno. Iris is a good closer. Few cards counter her, and with card advantage thanks to Cantarella, I almost always get good value at the end. The problem is you need bodies on the board. Anyhow, using Menno, Iris and Cantarella, I've pulled off 50 point plus power swings in the final play. Most players don't see it coming because Iris and Menno are so seldom played.
 
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No one sees my NG deck coming lmao. Poor monsters :p NG is by far the hardest faction to play, and I find them very rewarding to win with because people don't expect it. (Stats are from a smurf; numbers wouldn't be this high otherwise.) I like that they are not popular atm; people don't know how to fight it. I don't think they are as weak as people make them out to be.
 

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There still a great if used properly, i prefer them to Skellige and ST right now, more fun to play and such a wonderful variety of tech cards. Sweers, Asaire, Guardian, Auckes, Medics, Xarth, Vill.

Who can ask for more?
 
The problem with Nilfgaard is simple really: It lacks a good round three win condition. Tibor is still pretty good but he's not *great* anymore. Sometimes you'll get lucky and they'll draw a dead spell or some low power tech card but more often they'll at least draw something with a decent body and his actual value will wind up being only 15-17 and at the expense of giving up last card. He's absolutely worth running but at this point I think he's more of a complimentary card than a pure, stand-alone win condition that you build a deck around. Plus he's harder than ever to pull consistently now the Calveit can't pull Golds. Spotters (if you play reveal) are also just *okay*. To get truly great value out of them you'll need to play more than one, and they means even *if* you get last card your opponent will get a chance to counter. And there's just too many counters to bronze cards that boost to huge strength. (There's a reason you don't see people playing Protectors or Vanguards and Pirate Captains are usually run as more of a complimentary piece.) Beyond that, I'm just not sure what there really is. Brigade is still a huge tempo snowball but it only really works during long (and thus usually early) rounds. Comparatively, other factions have the likes of Crones, Grave Hag, Queensguard, Skirmisher, Eithne Gold/Scorch spam, Braenn/Toruviel, Reaver Hunters, Bloody Baron, and NR Silver Witchers. Pretty much all of those are either worth more (20+ points) or are much easier to set up and/or reuse. In some cases it's even both. Nilfgaard doesn't really have anything comparable right now.
 
I play NG spies, and there are several point swings. Menno is a great example. He gives 8 strength and if you save Cantarella until the last round, that's 18 points right there, plus any other spies. You also get CA in the final round. Ill play Iris as well. But to get good value out of her you need at least 4 units on your side. If you have 8 though, that's 24 points, plus the 3 the opponent loses when you kill her, and its distributed amongst all your units so there is no effective counter once executed.

Another excellent point swing is Joachim. I've saved him until the end and he's earned me big points, especially if you can kill him afterwards with Nauzicaa Brigade. Cynthia too can also get big points if the player is holding a boosted card in their hand until their final play. This is most often the case with ST.

The biggest bane I have is against NR muster decks. You have to outstrength them, which is impossible most the time, especially against reavers. Another problem is SK resurrect. Their ability to replay cards is so powerful, and even though I tech in one medic its often not enough. Monster decks I find are not a problem, nor ST. When it comes to the NG decks, its a toss up.
 
As a relatively new Nilfgaard player, who also plays f2p, it is really hard the last few days to get the daily rewards, even in casual. It seems more and more people play competitive decks in casual, sadly for me. While I am not thinking of myself as a highly skilled playe, I find it hard to counter some of the above mentioned playstyles.

A huge problem for spy Nilfgaard is in my opinion the fact that Emisarries can pull the same bronze card twice, and the problem that one is almost forced to play Calveit in the beginning, if one runs Imperial Golems. This can lead to relatively week plays in the first round. I do not think that this are huge issues, as Nilfgaard requires a lot of deck management and sequencing, which is a good thing, but some small changes there might make the play more rewarding.

ikillchicken;n9309881 said:
Comparatively, other factions have the likes of Crones, Grave Hag, Queensguard, Skirmisher, Eithne Gold/Scorch spam, Braenn/Toruviel, Reaver Hunters, Bloody Baron, and NR Silver Witchers. Pretty much all of those are either worth more (20+ points) or are much easier to set up and/or reuse. In some cases it's even both. Nilfgaard doesn't really have anything comparable right now.

I think this sums it up quite nicely. Although, I would argue that Nilfgaard is capable of huge point swings, it requires just more forethinking and setup, which can make the best player make misplays. Also the faction specific gold and silver cards are really awesome, but, as mentioned, much more situational than the ones of compared factions.
Sure, there are decks that work quite good in the hands of a skilled player (Dashgaard, Mill), but the playability of a faction should not rely mostly on neutral cards.
 
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NG is the hardest faction to play but is also the most fun one. They also have excellent cards that allow you to set up your plays or interfere with the opponent's. (Assire and the Golem, for example)

They also have big units, such as knights, that provide some nice numbers, as well as Imperas that work well with spies. Add some good base silvers and you have a decent faction.

So why isn't NG being played more? Because other factions don't require as much to play properly but give the same or in most cases better results. Impera brigades are nice but compared to buffable cards from other factions aren't agile. It's easy to stagger them, sure, but they can easily be d bombed or even hit with Coral.

I got to rank 10 with NG (stopped playing there, it probably works well past that rank) but I mostly play casual. I have decent success with them but I also have most of NG cards, so new players don't have it as easy.

Hope the upcoming patch gives NG a boost so it's on par with MS and SK. Speaking of boosts, ST could use one too.
 

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The only competitive NG archetype is currently Reveal. With a proper deck and some mulligan luck, it's very high tempo (Voorhis into Daerlan Foot Soldiers with 1-2 Mangonels on board and lesser golems in the deck; Vattier is incredible; and very often Cynthia and Peter are high-tempo, too). And it has a natural next-round investing and Round 3 win condition in the form of Spotters.

What works for me, is that beside Vattier, most of my key cards are geared towards control and disruption.

Golds: Vattier-Bonart-Igni-Tibor.
Silvers: Cantarella-Assire-Auckes-Peter-Sweers-Cynthia.

Cynthia: Being a strongest card reveal rather than random, it conveys MUCH more information than a simple Alchemist reveal. Best played relatively early but after Dagon slaps his first Fog.
Peter: unimpressive only against Dagon tokens and Skellige without pirate captains. But even there he can provide valuable Igni line-up. Banishes nekkers.
Auckes: I don't mind using him against 2 harpy eggs. Invaluable against dwarves, consume and 2 warships. The 1 damage helped for Igni line-up a few times.
Cantarella: 1) mangonel fodder (often as early as our 3nd move, right after Voorhis) 2) CA for Spotters 3) kewl Bonhart target.
Sweers and Assire: The unexpected disrupting machines. If needed, can be used as Bonhart targets but I prefer to keep them secret. Sweers is more situational while Assire is never bad. SK forfeits outright, Dagons get their hatched harpies in 3rd round or from Tibor, NR get their blue stripes, Eithne loses access to Scorch and Nature's Gift. Finally, protects us against Mill.


BTW the devs mentioned somewhere that NG will get a "synergy boost", so that you will be able to play hybrid decks.
 
Just you wait, Im working my way through the 10 messages threshold to be able to post my....post in the suggestions part, on this issue. Prepare to be dazzled my brethern <3
 
The reveal archetype is practically dead now, with the way Spotters have been nerfed. Maybe that has been countered by the new Assassin card, but in my opinion Assassins are incredibly OP. They can do up to 10 points of base damage, ignoring armor, making them more powerful than some golds. And a deck can have 3. At the very least, Assassin should be a silver, with one per deck.
 
barddoc1992;n9479931 said:
... They can do up to 10 points of base damage, ignoring armor, making them more powerful than some golds...

You surely don't know what are you talking about. Assassins do up to 10 BASE damage only and it includes the Armor of the targeted Unit.

Exhibit A:you have an Assassin in your hand and your opponent plays, let's say 10 STR DB Protector. Assassin will deal just 4 damage to the card, cause this is the base strength of the Protector.

Exhibit B: you want to take 10 points from this 11 Trollololo, BUT it has 6 Armor already - you'll drag him to 0 Armor and deal 4 DMG, leaving him at 7.

Assassin is more of a tech card against stuff like Farseer, Avallac'h, etc.

Now, in the state that it is right now, if you are talking about Assassination to go Silver - I am all for it. This card is more useless than ever. I would understand if it was 2 STR Disloyal body, that deals double the Assassins Damage (2x10), but this that we have now is just horrid.


All in all - NG got quite playable after the patch, but still shaky. And funny thing - the most talked about and HATED card before the patch hit - Xarthisius - I've met a few times during the day after the patch hi and it is once again gone from the game.
 
I just pulled a second ng legendary so I'm really trying to make nilfgaard work but I'm finding you don't have enough cards to pull off a big spy turn or a big reveal turn, both requiring dropping about 6-7 cards before I take the advantage so I think it is a very big issue finding 2-3 cards that would take a round. I think it's almost imperative to run avallach, since this has been my bane in ng decks while playing against it and it's not a card I have in my collection so I might try ng down the track maybe?

I also think people are teching super hard against ng, it's so popular to run cowapults but also so easy to cheese these beginners who think this strategy will work. I however really don't have any better options so I look like a scrub too but you run what you got with such a limited card pool.
 
barddoc1992;n9479931 said:
The reveal archetype is practically dead now, with the way Spotters have been nerfed. Maybe that has been countered by the new Assassin card, but in my opinion Assassins are incredibly OP. They can do up to 10 points of base damage, ignoring armor, making them more powerful than some golds. And a deck can have 3. At the very least, Assassin should be a silver, with one per deck.

I've run into a few reveal decks that work really well, a lot of them are using a revealed Geralt to get their spotters to 17 power. I wouldn't say that the Archetype is dead, people just aren't using as much because of all the newer types of strategies that peel people away.

NG has always been a pretty solid counter to Skellige, and that hasn't really changed. The only thing that has changed is the viability of ST which has always been a pretty good counter to NG.

 
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