Dol blathanna swordmaster

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HTMekkatorque;n9778531 said:
Imagine this okay... Turn one SK drops a longship, you retaliate with iorveth. You follow up with say officer mulliganing a vrihedd vangard, so theres this like tiny opportunity for a second longship to come out, yeah sure but then turn two he drops another or what not then you ressurect your iorveth, i mean this is assuming a perfect hand but desperate times, you could hawker supporter one of your swordsmans, you might even have a second one in your hand ready for hattori but then really it depends on the coin flip because lets say you don't have hattori but then first turn you pre-emptively raise your swordsman by 3 with a supporter then he drops one. Just wait and see when people have collected the cards.

I'm having trouble following you. Let's see:
-You drop the longship with Iorveth, +1 to all elves on your hand.
-You mulligan a Vri vanguard, +1 to all elves on board, it has no bearing on the Swormasters on hand.
-You resurrect Iorveth. What? You can't resurrect Iorveth. Hattori only works on Bronze and Silver. Even more, Iorveth would be 8 points (7+1 from Vri Vanguard), and Hattori would be 4 or 7 (3+1 for Iorveth buff, or an extra 3 from Hawker Support for a total of 7), so not enough to resurrect Iorveth in this scenario even if he were demoted and not a Gold card anymore.
 
The decklist I'm assuming would be overpowered would also run renew. its not just a swordmaster deck, there are elements of scoiatael that would be enhanced by increasing all the elves strength by one and if you think by any means I'm saying every card you should run, you're running it to boost your swordmasters solely, definitely not the case. You probably need to have a long hard think about it.
 
HTMekkatorque;n9784991 said:
The decklist I'm assuming would be overpowered would also run renew. its not just a swordmaster deck, there are elements of scoiatael that would be enhanced by increasing all the elves strength by one and if you think by any means I'm saying every card you should run, you're running it to boost your swordmasters solely, definitely not the case. You probably need to have a long hard think about it.

I'm not a Farseer, so I don't know what decklist are you assuming. If you write the whole decklist, maybe then we could have an articulate discussion about Swordmasters.
 
Noela;n9779001 said:
I'm having trouble following you. Let's see:
-You drop the longship with Iorveth, +1 to all elves on your hand.
-You mulligan a Vri vanguard, +1 to all elves on board, it has no bearing on the Swormasters on hand.
-You resurrect Iorveth. What? You can't resurrect Iorveth. Hattori only works on Bronze and Silver. Even more, Iorveth would be 8 points (7+1 from Vri Vanguard), and Hattori would be 4 or 7 (3+1 for Iorveth buff, or an extra 3 from Hawker Support for a total of 7), so not enough to resurrect Iorveth in this scenario even if he were demoted and not a Gold card anymore.

You can resurrect Iorveth with Renew.
 
You guys are almost talking like this is a hypothetical thing.
I just played someone who had his/her bloody swordmaster boosted up to 19, and they had the last card. So I was winning, and then they slammed it down, damaged my strengthened Djenge Frett, and won. That's a 38 (THIRTY EIGHT!) point turnaround on one single bronze card. That's ridiculous, there's nothing more to discuss. If the developers managed to limit/nerf Bekker's Twisted Mirror and other cards to a 10-point maximum, they should be able to do something similar to this. Maybe "damage by half, rounded down" (even though that would still make a 27-point turnaround in my case).
 
MariusVibe;n9788291 said:
I just played someone who had his/her bloody swordmaster boosted up to 19, and they had the last card.
So if he didn't have the last card and you could play Djenge last you'd have won, right? As I see it, he outplayed you on the earlier rounds and got rewarded for it.

Also, to have that 38 power swing, he didn't use only 1 bronze like you mentioned. He probably wasted all his Hawker Supports on a single card (3 bronzes), had the buff from Iorveth (1 gold), maybe Quenn and possibly some Dragoons (1~2 bronzes). Summarizing that was a combo of at least 6 cards. I know decks and factions that can do better with the same number of cards.
 
@Theodrik
Well said. If someone really made a good use of this card then it was because of the strategy and not just because the card is too much overpower for itself. It's really nice and easy criticize new cards and strategies from your opponente when it's another factions but I wonder if that would happen if the one to benefit would be you and your faction. In my opinion, every faction should receive their own reliable super combo and strategy or then all factions should be nerfed because things are just not fair at all between the factions and I'm not talking about Scoia'tael (which only effective strategy so far was spella'tel) but with Skelling and Mosters which make up more than 60% of the competitive scenary together.
 
Theodrik;n9788441 said:
Also, to have that 38 power swing, he didn't use only 1 bronze like you mentioned. He probably wasted all his Hawker Supports on a single card (3 bronzes), had the buff from Iorveth (1 gold), maybe Quenn and possibly some Dragoons (1~2 bronzes).

Yes, thank you, I know the basics of the game and how it works. I'm not saying it wasn't a good strategy that was used against me (it was, and kudos to my opponent!) - but the card is still too powerful, in my opinion. That right there is (at least) silver card power, not bronze, right?


Riigoo;n9788881 said:
It's really nice and easy criticize new cards and strategies from your opponente when it's another factions but I wonder if that would happen if the one to benefit would be you and your faction.

So you're basically guessing that I would probably be biased and lose my sense of objectivity if the hypothetical scenario that you created in your mind occurred? Based on what? Knowing me so well? Yeah, you keep on wondering what would happen. Maybe I'll let you know when Skellige gets a crazy-power bronze card that matches that Swordmaster.
 
MariusVibe;n9789481 said:
That right there is (at least) silver card power, not bronze, right?
The Swordmaster alone represents 8 power at best, 4 body + 4 damage. The Clan Brokvar Hunter from Skellige has a 6 body and also deals 4 damage, plus it gets Strengthened by 1 whenever an adjacent unit gets damaged.

Now how I do honestly feel about the Swordmaster... Well compared to some Golds and Silvers, it's sort of a power creep. However that's also true for many other Bronzes out there. So when you compare the Swordmaster against the other Bronze power creeps from other factions, it's balanced. The Swordmaster enabled a new deck archetype for Scoia to be competitive, and still it is not one of the top decks out there. So if you wanna see a nerf to Swordmaster, we should talk about nerfing pretty much every competitive Bronze that surpasses Silvers and Golds in power, and those are a lot of cards.

Also you talked about Skellige. I tend to play that faction a lot, and right now I'm having a 62% win ratio against Scoia'tael, isn't that OP?
 
@MariusVibe
Dude, that hypothetical scenario is not hypothetical anymore, Skelling is one of the most overpower if not the most overpower faction so far, why do you think people plays with it so much? I can assure you that it's not because they like bears. So I think the situations speaks for itself enough. And sorry but if you want more overpower bronze cards for Skelling than what we already have (and not just bronze cards) then I guess the game would be not fun anymore (not that is that much of fun in the current scenario too btw).
 
Riigoo;n9789721 said:
Skelling is one of the most overpower if not the most overpower faction so far, why do you think people plays with it so much?

Do they? I have the impression that Nilfgaard is the most OP by far, and everyone keeps playing that faction.
I might be wrong. Please point me to user statistics that show the most commonly used factions, and what factions the highest-ranked players use, because I don't know where to find such stats.
 
Theodrik;n9789591 said:
The Swordmaster alone represents 8 power at best, 4 body + 4 damage. The Clan Brokvar Hunter from Skellige has a 6 body and also deals 4 damage, plus it gets Strengthened by 1 whenever an adjacent unit gets damaged.

I see your point, but I don't think it's a particularly good example. The CB Hunter is not a game changer, never was. It doesn't win games. To do that, you have to have extreme powers, like the boosted Swordmaster. The CB Hunter does 4 damage, that's nothing, and I've never, ever seen it boosted to 34.

Theodrik;n9789591 said:
Also you talked about Skellige. I tend to play that faction a lot, and right now I'm having a 62% win ratio against Scoia'tael, isn't that OP?

Good for you, you're obviously very skilled, and I'm glad you have the stats to back it up. But that ratio doesn't have enough info in itself to invalidate my point. For all I know, 100% of that 38% loss ratio is because of a boosted Swordmaster. I know it probably isn't - but do you see my point?
 
MariusVibe;n9789881 said:
Do they? I have the impression that Nilfgaard is the most OP by far, and everyone keeps playing that faction.
I might be wrong. Please point me to user statistics that show the most commonly used factions, and what factions the highest-ranked players use, because I don't know where to find such stats.

It is nothing official, but it is something. Next week will show the high ranks in tighter reflection I guess - Season just started.

Most recent one: https://gwentup.com/report/17/21

Archive: https://gwentup.com/reports
 
MariusVibe

​​​​​​​Seriously, I don't get it. Of course, 19 swordmaster is a lot, but it is like you are complaining because of a 20+ last round Ele'yas. It is annoying because it is hand buffing and there is nothing you can make about it, with a few exceptions, like Venendal Elite or Foul Ale. Let's be reasoble about it, using yor 19 point example. I know that the points I'm going to make had been raised by another posters, but let's get over them another time. If I'm wrong in my guessings, let me know, I'm a bit oblivious and not very good with numbers overall.

To achieve 19 points, that's 15 point in buffs. So I'm guessing three Hawker support for a total of 13(4+3+3+3). Another point for Iorveth, 14. Two more for Quen, 16. And 3 more via Francesca, 19.
That's the maximun you can get, not counting Dragoons that are very unreliable. Now, let's get over the cards used in the combo.
-Iorveth: an autoinclude in every deck that's heavy on elves. The only requiriment in this case would be playing him after Francesca pulled the Swordman.
-Hawker support: the three of them used in the same card. That's a debatable use, and depends a lot on the deck the opponent is playing. Sometimes is better to kill three seven or eight points enemies with lasting or repeteable effects like machines. Your opponent had a lot of luck, or it was a bad match up for you, or just developed a good strategy during your game.
-Francesca: using Francesca for pulling a SM could be good, but if you do, you are "wasting" the chance to pull a key gold or silver card.
-Quen: I think this card is seeing a lot of use this days ;)

So, while I agree with you that it is maddening to eat a 38 point swing, it is not so easy to achieve, and what is more, it isn't always the best use. Swordmaster is a solid, good bronze card that enables a archetype that was not playable before. And truth to be told, I found more efficient to use them as enhanced "thunders" (7 points removal without missed tempo), that as big nukes, and if the card is OP (I don't think so), it is more for this reason, IMHO. And I have not played them a lot, I'm trying silly decks and getting my ass consistently kicked, so I can't give you statistics, it's just my take on the card.
 
Swordmasters are useful and easily pull their weight, there's no denying that - but they really aren't OP. Like has already been stated, getting one of them to high strength requires buffs from several cards. Three of them at high strength? Yeah, not exactly easy to achieve even with all possible buffs (counting lucky Dragoons).

In addition, personally I think that for example Braenn and Toruviel are better targets for Hawker Supports than the Swordmasters. I know I found myself buffing Braenn rather than a Swordmaster, just for the extra synergy (and ever so slightly higher base strength).
 
Well hypothetical for me but I think if it was worth running Iorveth in your deck at all, say you're running an elf deck, that is massive gains, i'd assume you'd also want to be able to resurrect him so you should really be running renew (lets all pretend 1 power to all elves is not amazing). I'm not saying this deck is overpowered at all just very relative, I think it could compete with the other top decks but I think it needs such and such a dedicated card list to work well but you wouldn't see strength in it at all or see it being worth playing if you were play testing it with the wrong combination of cards.
 
Dol Blathanna Swordmaster might be too strong for a bronze.

This card can easily be buffed to over 10 power, meaning a bronze card can be worth 20 points, which is not healthy for the game. You might say that it requires other cards to make this card valueble, but still, for scoiatael, buffing cards is no big deal and doesn't really require a set up, sort of like what restore used to be. I think the card text should read "Damage an Enemy by half this Unit's Power (rounding up), making so swordmaster won't be so unfun to play against.
 
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