Thoughts and Advice? Discard Deck!

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NickStrife;n8959750 said:
SK can revive units so i think putting a card to the graveyard is no big deal.. you can get it back far more easier than the other factions can... You just like to say that archetypes are lacking without realising what these archetypes are..

Reveal for example.. By round 2 you know ALL the cards that your enemy has in his hand while some of your cards receive additional benefits from it... Your enemy can't bluff, and can't fool you.. If you think this very concept isn't unhealthy and OP by itself and you actually believe it needs buffing then i dunno what to say honestly.. It should be OBVIOUS reveal cards don't need any more buffing... As for Mulligan?? Come on.. I wish i could cycle through my whole deck effortlessly while some of my cards are getting buffed in the process... If these decks received proper additional cards or buffs in order to be made into complete archetypes we will have in our hands more balancing problems than just SK and weather.,..

It's the same for SK.. the graveyard as a theme it's too OP as there is a very limited number of cards which can interact with the graveyard and they are not available to all factions..

Again, you fail to realize that there are NO cards that discard benefits from putting to graveyard, that exactly is the problem, and that is why the archetype falls flat on it's face, way worse than both Milligan and reveal:

you have pirates which are trash to raise
you have freyas for the res
you have ships that you want on board BEFORE the discard
you have captains that don't work on graveyard AND lose all their boost when discarded
and you have raiders that come on board.

effectively, the archetype wants you to discard stuff to res them, but there is no spot for such bronzes.

that's why discard is the worst out of the 3 archetypes, in need for BUFFS ,and the most OBVIOUS one is allowing the captain to get buffed in the graveyard and retaining his buff when discarded/ raised

 
NickStrife;n8959750 said:
It's the same for SK.. the graveyard as a theme it's too OP as there is a very limited number of cards which can interact with the graveyard and they are not available to all factions..
Every faction can interact with graveyard.
Nilfgaard can pull from enemy grave.
Monsters can consume units from grave, even steal with caretaker. They also have foglets.
NR can pull units back to deck and ressurect also.
Not sure about scoia'tel, they actually might have nothing.
 
MrRagdoll;n8961510 said:
NR can pull units back to deck and ressurect also.

NR has only one rez card which is a GOLD slot..! We also have a silver card which can pull 3 cards from our graveyard and put them back at in our deck (useless with no set up).. Nothing else.. And still NR can't interact with SK's graveyard which was my point to begin with...



MrRagdoll;n8961510 said:
Not sure about scoia'tel, they actually might have nothing

You are right they have nothing...



So my argument still stands...!
 
shroudb;n8961290 said:
Again, you fail to realize that there are NO cards that discard benefits from putting to graveyard, that exactly is the problem, and that is why the archetype falls flat on it's face, way worse than both Milligan and reveal:
you have pirates which are trash to raise you have freyas for the res you have ships that you want on board BEFORE the discard you have captains that don't work on graveyard AND lose all their boost when discarded and you have raiders that come on board.
effectively, the archetype wants you to discard stuff to res them, but there is no spot for such bronzes.
that's why discard is the worst out of the 3 archetypes, in need for BUFFS ,and the most OBVIOUS one is allowing the captain to get buffed in the graveyard and retaining his buff when discarded/ raised

Again you fail to realize that discard should not turn into an indepedent archetype.. It's meant for supplementing other archetypes.. It shouldn't receive buffs untill all factions have a way to interact with SK's graveyard... Otherwise it's OP cause when you put something in the graveyard you benefit from the fact i have no way to interact with it until you strengthen it and use it in Round 3 as a 15+ body...
 
NickStrife;n8967400 said:
Again you fail to realize that discard should not turn into an indepedent archetype.. It's meant for supplementing other archetypes.. It shouldn't receive buffs untill all factions have a way to interact with SK's graveyard... Otherwise it's OP cause when you put something in the graveyard you benefit from the fact i have no way to interact with it until you strengthen it and use it in Round 3 as a 15+ body...

/Facepalm

discard is ALREADY an archetype, it has been so since CB, and it even received slight tweaks to make it better already.

What you "Fear" (lol) already exists in QG, and guess what, it is FAR from OP, not even normal t1

btw, you have to understand that putting something in the graveyard actually gives MORE opportunities for opponent to interact with instead of holding in your hand a spotter, a dbp, crones, Tibor, etc 15+ cards

in sort:
you have a problem for a 15 point bronze to be in the graveyard and fail to realize that point bronze in hand is actually superior in every single way.

also, you keep arguing about the balance of an archetype that you have ZERO experience in
 
shroudb;n8968050 said:
What you "Fear" (lol) already exists in QG, and guess what, it is FAR from OP, not even normal t1

Exactly the reason i am salty... Also, SK dominates everything on higher tiers so i don't know what you are talking about...

shroudb;n8968050 said:
btw, you have to understand that putting something in the graveyard actually gives MORE opportunities for opponent to interact with instead of holding in your hand a spotter, a dbp, crones, Tibor, etc 15+ cards

Again you fail to realize that there are more factions in the game than just Monsters and NG (NG is not being played at all in this patch btw).. Crones are three Silver slots which can easily go wrong with a slightly unlucky mulligan/draw.. Tibor is a Gold slot.. In order for Spotters to reach 15+ they need to be played in an incomplete and lacking "archetype" so they lose in the end... And at least once they are used they can't be re-used (unlike QG)...

shroudb;n8968050 said:
also, you keep arguing about the balance of an archetype that you have ZERO experience in

I have plenty of experience against it...! And i am not stupid.. I can actually do some research and read some guides, decks and card descriptions before i start complaining..

shroudb;n8968050 said:
you have a problem for a 15 point bronze to be in the graveyard and fail to realize that point bronze in hand is actually superior in every single way.

Once a card that is in your hand is used it can't be re-used.. SK can use it.. Then they can strengthen it while in the graveyard and then they can re-use it 2-3 times (plenty of times for 3 rounds).. And as NR i can do nothing about it...




Also define "archetype"... Since something can't stand on its own feet it's not an archetype for me... Simple as that..
 
NickStrife;n8969840 said:
Exactly the reason i am salty... Also, SK dominates everything on higher tiers so i don't know what you are talking about...



Again you fail to realize that there are more factions in the game than just Monsters and NG (NG is not being played at all in this patch btw).. Crones are three Silver slots which can easily go wrong with a slightly unlucky mulligan/draw.. Tibor is a Gold slot.. In order for Spotters to reach 15+ they need to be played in an incomplete and lacking "archetype" so they lose in the end... And at least once they are used they can't be re-used (unlike QG)...



I have plenty of experience against it...! And i am not stupid.. I can actually do some research and read some guides, decks and card descriptions before i start complaining..



Once a card that is in your hand is used it can't be re-used.. SK can use it.. Then they can strengthen it while in the graveyard and then they can re-use it 2-3 times (plenty of times for 3 rounds).. And as NR i can do nothing about it...




Also define "archetype"... Since something can't stand on its own feet it's not an archetype for me... Simple as that..

let's take it from the beginning shall we?
:
yes, SK is at the top of the ladder, but you can surely realize that a whole faction has more than 1 deck right? QG doesn't "dominate" anything, it's fairly mediocre compared to what every other faction can pull. Similary, discard SK doesn't dominate anything, it's not competitive viable.

So, "sk dominates ladder" and "discard needs buffs" CAN actually simultaneously be true.

secondly, i didn't call you stupid, just that you have no experience with the deck, and it shows because you keep repeating things that don't happen in the deck. Discard SK, at least how it is designed, doesn't strengthen bodies in the graveyard, that's one thing you keep repeating and that doesn't happens, secondly, discard SK doesn't have discard targets to res for a huge swing. What it DOES have, is bronzes it can't afford to discard, because they are build with discard synergy in mind, but actually don't WORK with discard, which is simply put, bad design.

lastly, a lot of factions can actually reuse cards, neneke, caretaker, assire, and yes, freyas, are all things that exist.

as for what is an archetype, it's blatantly obvious that when 3 factions all have exactly:
1 unit that gets buffed by 1 when X happens
1 unit that deals 2 damage when X happens
1 unit that thins the deck when X happens
1 leader that does X 3 times
1 gold that does X
etc stuff that do X or are procced by X

then, it's obviously designed as a deck that plans to do X, then drop the buffed units.
The only problem, is that discard SK CAN'T. Because X, in discard case means "discard the unit so that it stops working". Unless the grant masterplan was for discard SK to discard it's golds and silvers, which i seriously can't think that any sane person would think so.

if we go with your whole "archetype is only what works" then surely consume should have it's buffs revereted to non-working status because consume wasn't an archetype before they fixed it.
similary, machines should not be an archetype because, before they fixed it, it wasn't working
etc

archetype is defined as a coheasive synergisitc set of cards designed to work toghether.

now, your problem, is that you're afraid that somehow SK can replay insane units, which doesn't actually happen, but i'll humor you:
Make captains retain their buff when discarded/retain their ability when in graveyard. Make them lose their buff when killed. TADA, now they can only be used "once" (with boosted stats), and they remain the trash they are atm for every other occasion.

It even offers up MORE counterplay compared to EVERY SINGLE OTHER BOOSTED UNIT IN GAME, since those are played from hand, which you can't interact with. At least in graveyard there are 2 factions that completely shut them down, as opposed to ZERO counterplay available for every other faction boosted bronze.

p.s. obviously, i had hoped that you would realize that the units i offered were examples of power play, obviously, you didn't and started talking about "this is gold, this is silver, etc".
so here you go:
DBP: bronze 0 counterplay (before it's played)
Spotter: bronze 0 counterplay (before it's played)
Vrihead: bronze 0 counterplay (before it's played)
Nekker: bronze 0 counterplay (before it's played)

so ther you go, bronze units, that are all "boosted by 1 when X happens" that you can't coutnerplay prior to them hitting the field. 4 out of 5 factions have them, but they don't work in SK's case.

so, what's actually your problem with captains actually being playable (because they aren't now, they simply fail to work in the designed archetype)?

i sincerely can't see your comments anything more than salt "SK has good decks atm so we should leave their broken things not working"
 
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shroudb;n8970230 said:
So, "sk dominates ladder" and "discard needs buffs" CAN actually simultaneously be true.

Nope, since when a card is buffed enough it can be used in all archetypes (for example BEARS, QG and Morkvarg)..

Even if some cards need some buffs since the faction performs well enough in higher tiers, the PRIORITY for buffs and reworks should belong to factions like SC and NR which don't have competitive decks atm...

I won't argue on anything else since we have different views on what an archetype is and what should be an independent archetype and what not... Just try to remember that some themes are OP by their nature (for example reveal, graveyard, advanced consistency, mulligan)
 
NickStrife;n8970490 said:
Nope, since when a card is buffed enough it can be used in all archetypes (for example BEARS, QG and Morkvarg)..

Even if some cards need some buffs since the faction performs well enough in higher tiers, the PRIORITY for buffs and reworks should belong to factions like SC and NR which don't have competitive decks atm...

I won't argue on anything else since we have different views on what an archetype is and what should be an independent archetype and what not... Just try to remember that some themes are OP by their nature (for example reveal, graveyard, advanced consistency, mulligan)

The only thing we can agree is that there is no point in arguing since you can't realize that no single theme can be OP by nature.

also, QG "fit anywhere"? Really now? Have you ever made a QG deck?
 
shroudb;n8971800 said:
also, QG "fit anywhere"? Really now? Have you ever made a QG deck?

I saw them in many different decks.. "Anywhere": might be too much.. But for sure they can be used in many different deck structures.. Their ability is not that restricting in the first place..


shroudb;n8971800 said:
no single theme can be OP by nature.

So... The "I can see your whole hand" (NG) theme is equal to "boost your units through different deploy synergies" (NR) theme.. That's an interesting way of thinking there...
 
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NickStrife;n8975480 said:
I saw them in many different decks.. "Anywhere": might be too much.. But for sure they can be used in many different deck structures.. Their ability is not that restricting in the first place.. don't be absurd..




So... The "I can see your whole hand" (NG) theme is equal to "boost your units through different deploy synergies" (NR) theme.. That's an interesting way of thinking there...

QG need the deck to be build around them, swapping a gold for another, or a bronze for another, doesn't really change the core of a deck.

And yes, the "reveal opponent's hand" is as "unfair" as:
"play only spells restricting opponents ability to do anything on your board"
"buff dwarves up the wazoo, double dipping throught their buffs for the second round"
"spawn an infinite amount of boosted stuff through consume"
"weather everything down while summoning stuff"
"completly destroy everything on opponent's side on round 1, followed by 25+ power witchers, repeat through neneke"
etc

because you don't like it, it doesn't make it inherently broken. Either way, you know 70%+ of an opponent's deck either way, and you play around possible counters either way, plus, more often the not, the new reveal doesn't reveal your whole hand, instead focusing more on revealing their own stuff like foot soldiers and scorpions

the very FACT that NR is actually superior to Reveal should have hinted you that it's actually "more unfair"

(quotes are ofc used because i don't think ANY of those themes are actually unfair, it's just their mechanic which enables them to be actually PLAYABLE)
 
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I have a question about using war longships.
I am currently using 2 in my deck and I must say they are a powerhouse (either baiting removal or being 12 points on average) in my discard deck (midrange deck, similarly played to the morkvarg deck).
I have been thinking about it for a long time, but I see no reason to replace them.
However, I see nobody using it! (not even the queens guard deck) So I am beginning to wonder, why is that? are they not good enough? or is it just that other skellige decks have better options?

I have great success with the deck, I could post my entire deck list if that would be more helpful to understand the situation.
 
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