A MMORPG 10 years from now?

[cyberbard]

A MMORPG 10 years from now?

Hi,

I'm probably digging my own grave here, but I'd like to see what interest the community would have in a MMORPG based on The Witcher. I know there are threads about a Witcher-based MMORPG already, but I wouldn't want to necro old threads. Besides, I'm using a new angle for the topic which I dare say makes this thread relevant:

Suppose there are ways of creating awesome MMORPGs 10 years from now that would do the franchise justice - would you be interested?

The following would first be true:

• Graphics are no longer sacrificed for the sake of more players.
• There is no standard MMORPG-formula; everything is designed from the ground up in true CD Projekt-fashion with emphasis on the player and his/her experience - not grind, spreadsheets, skill-bars, etcetera.
• There is some sort of age-limit and other functions to prevent adolescents from creating 'LegolazX'-type characters and running around, jumping everywhere.
• The internet of that time will basically remove lag, disconnects, and similar grievances, and allow for cloud-gaming so that you can play a gorgeous and technically sophisticated game on any platform and with any rig.

The following could be made possible and emphasised to create a unique and mature online experience, different from the single-player games:

• A sophisticated form of PvP (unlike today's grindy battlegrounds).
• Player-housing (which leads to player-run towns and cities, etcetera). This could also grant you the ability to keep your own garden, work the fields according to in-game seasons, etcetera.
• Forming your own House/Dynasty/Lineage or simply a family, with a Shield, the ability to marry and have children (no unnecessary nudity) - and more importantly die, pass the role of player avatar from one character to another (heirs), and eventually gain various cool benefits from having a long line of ancestors.
• A trading-system one step ahead of traditional systems from MMORPGs, where players can set up mercantile guilds, make deals with other guilds, control the server economy, and so on.
• No levels or forced third-person. Have it be much the same as the single-player games in terms of combat and control.
• In general an experience which says: 'This is a living, breathing, sophisticated world - not a MMORPG.' You're supposed to live your characters' lives in there, essentially.

Thoughts?

 

[Aaden]

Basically what you describe is a mixture of "MMORPGs 10 years ago" and "MMORPG utopia". And as it is with utopia, there's no way to get there.

I don't believe that we'll ever see an MMO free of adolescent uberr0xx0rz and inappropriate character names - from my experience in most games, not even the name policy on RP servers is managed strictly (or in simpler terms: GMs/the dev doesn't care), nor do players who wish to call themselves LegolazX stay away from those servers. And most on RP servers cannot be bothered to walk through a city instead of running. And keep in mind: that's already that tiny fraction of players who care about roleplaying to a certain degree.

Nor do I believe that there will be a big budget MMO again, that doesn't put the concepts of gear progression, raiding and grindy battlegrounds in front - it's just what the audience expects from MMOs, since WoW streamlined the experience so much. Roleplaying in Online Roleplaying Games is virtually non-existent. There's just a small crowd who want that living, breathing world, that is mostly inhabited by players - for most it's about being the hero and progress.

Also, there's a reason why MMO content is often so mediocre and shallow: one needs to create TONS of it. Delivering such amounts in CDPR's quality standard will take unbelievably much time and cost lots of money. Which doesn't pay of, because you're creating an actual roleplaying game, not a typical MMO, so your audience will be rather small.


Much of what you want has been done before:
-Sophisticated PvP? Dark Age of Camelot!
-Player housing? Many older MMORPGs! (the most recent I deem noteworthy probably being Lord of the Rings Online)
-Complex economy? EVE Online! A niche MMO, that has such an awesome economy that economists study it to conclude stuff for real world economy.
-Players focussing on having a job instead of being the great hero? Ultima Online!

Those were all concepts from the old days, when those games were called MMORPGs and not MMOs - with good reason. But it was also a niche genre. Not anymore, so anything that has the budget to create something truly amazing, will instead cater to the mainstream.


Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see something like that. But it's somewhat like asking "Do you want a perfect world of justice, eternal peace and free of all worries and suffering?" - sure, but it's just not gonna happen.

 

[nukeheal]

In 10 years for sure It could happen but not before that waste of money. Witcher series needs much bigger fun base for that. More and new players need to be intruduce to more characters, cities, history and events which could be transfered to MMORPG game..

Legecy system something like in SWTOR? Its a good idea when you want to create new character. But that idea would have to tweaked a bit...
In Witcher world child is not born a typical human-mutant. Kids in very young age were usually taken away from parents and homes. When they were strong enough elders did a dangerous and toxic procedure to try and transform them into so called mutants which not every child survived in the end.

 

[80maxwell08]

I say as long as CDPR doesn't make it but it sounds like you want them specifically to make it. So no. For one chances are MMOs will still be giant money pits by then and I don't know how much money CDPR are making so far. For another we already had a disaster area with another studio famous for single player RPGs making an MMO. In my opinion leave multiplayer to people who know how to make it and stop wasting people's talents for single player games on making MMOs.

 

[DeargRuadhri]

The idea sounds good, but I'm not really sure it is fitting for The Witcher world. I prefer a more personal story told in an RPG, and no matter how good the developer is, this is more or less impossible to do in an MMO. It would also have to shift the focus from the witchers to a bigger group of people, because as we know, the secrets of creating a witcher are lost. It also requires great effort from the part of the developer, as making an MMO fitting to TW world would be no small undertaking, and CDPR isn't that big, it would probably take them lots of years as well as a lot of money to make the game.
And what would guarantee the success? Nothing, it is possible the fans might not like the game, in which case CDPR would be in a bad condition. For example, BW is nothing comparable to CDPR (in terms of product quality CDPR wins by a mile), but they might have a bigger fanbase and they still failed with SW:ToR.
Also, there are the players that don't really like multiplayer (like me), and I play RPGs because they tell stories only shaped by the player.


Your ideas are really good, and I hope to see an MMORPG like this, but in The Witcher world? No.

 

[Blothulfur]

What Aaden said, unfortunate but true.

 

[volsung]

For the sake of all that is good, I hope this never happens.

The (gaming) world was a better place before MMO's.

 

[gab961111.59]

What do you think of the secret world?

 

[chromie92]

If it's not a sandbox MMO then I hope CDPR would never bother.

 

[Sirnaq]

MMORPG

Witcher

Stopped reading there.

You clearly have no idea what's witcher all about.

Also

I'm probably digging my own grave here.

If you know that your idea is terrible, why are you even posting it here?

 

[norolim]

Basically what you describe is a mixture of "MMORPGs 10 years ago" and "MMORPG utopia". [...]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see something like that. But it's somewhat like asking "Do you want a perfect world of justice, eternal peace and free of all worries and suffering?" - sure, but it's just not gonna happen.

I just couldn't agree more. I played 2 MMOs in my life for several months each. That should last me until the end of my days. Run around to kill some things to get better gear to kill stronger things to get even better gear to kill even stronger things to get...nonsense.

 

[wichat]

A world inspirated when The witchers were in their zenith? maybe, very, very hard, too.

A MMORPRG Witcher??? NEVER!!!!

 

[cyberbard]

Many good points here. I appreciate all your responses, but please keep in mind that I'm not advocating a MMORPG of the Witcher today. That would end up like The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing, which isn't a pretty sight considering how awesome TES is. I am only thinking hypothetically about the future, when we might be able to assume that TW 3 and 4 are out, and CD Projekt has grown into a massive company. I also put my faith in them staying true to the ideals and values they have today concerning game design.

Also, I know many (or most) of my suggestions have been used before, but to my knowledge not in the same game.

The problems that most MMOs currently face, in my eyes, is in the direction the publishers want them to go, e.g. 'WoW 2'. ArenaNet says Guild Wars 2 is revolutionising the way people play MMORPGs, when, in reality, all they do is slightly alter the traditional formula to make it a) attract a wide and 'casual' crowd and b ) look innovative and fresh. As a long-time WoW player, Guild Wars 2 looks good to me, but only because my standards are really, really low after years of the same trite schematics.

What I'm trying to get at here is that, what if the old formula is thrown out by then? It might not be, but it may very well be, too. There's a constant threat to publishers in indie-development, and increasingly so as the internet becomes an acceptable way of distributing games. More and more talent goes into small companies that aren't controlled by huge publishers and still manage to produce quality products, with a relatively small budget.
So what if that formula was gone, and MMORPGs in 2020 meant 'great, living, online worlds,' and not what it does today. None of the old and trite MMO mechanics, but quality gameplay in a massive and populated world.

Interesting thought, no?

 

[cyberbard]

Stopped reading there.

You clearly have no idea what's witcher all about.

Also

If you know that your idea is terrible, why are you even posting it here?

Come now, there is no call for rudeness. That, if anything, belongs in the MMO-teenager stereotype, and not on a Witcher forum.

If you've read my full post, then you'll know that I'm aware that the MMOs of today aren't worthy of the Witcher-concept, and that I want them to grow up before they can handle it. Also, I didn't suggest an idea - I posed a question. Nor do I think of it as a terrible question (or idea, if you will), because then I would obviously not have written it.

The idea sounds good, but I'm not really sure it is fitting for The Witcher world. I prefer a more personal story told in an RPG, and no matter how good the developer is, this is more or less impossible to do in an MMO. It would also have to shift the focus from the witchers to a bigger group of people, because as we know, the secrets of creating a witcher are lost. It also requires great effort from the part of the developer, as making an MMO fitting to TW world would be no small undertaking, and CDPR isn't that big, it would probably take them lots of years as well as a lot of money to make the game.
And what would guarantee the success? Nothing, it is possible the fans might not like the game, in which case CDPR would be in a bad condition. For example, BW is nothing comparable to CDPR (in terms of product quality CDPR wins by a mile), but they might have a bigger fanbase and they still failed with SW:ToR.
Also, there are the players that don't really like multiplayer (like me), and I play RPGs because they tell stories only shaped by the player.


Your ideas are really good, and I hope to see an MMORPG like this, but in The Witcher world? No.

Thanks for the feedback and nice comment at the end, mate.

I completely agree that today, the personal aspect of such a game would suffer tremendously. But is there any way in which you could see this change over the years, perhaps? For instance, what was considered good/relevant/standard within the industry ten years ago is mostly irrelevant today.

So I suppose the question would be: Granted, it doesn't fit the MMORPG today - but what if the MMORPGs of tomorrow will be able to support a great single/multiplayer experience, without having either side suffer because of the other. Then would you like it?

 

[norolim]

What I'm trying to get at here is that, what if the old formula is thrown out by then? [...] what if that formula was gone, and MMORPGs in 2020 meant 'great, living, online worlds,' and not what it does today. None of the old and trite MMO mechanics, but quality gameplay in a massive and populated world.

Interesting thought, no?

Again. Interesting. But as Aaden wrote: utopia. Look what direction gaming is heading in: less quality, wider appeal. And I see no reason this trend would change in the foreseeable future. Indie games and Kickstarter alone won't do it. A radical change, 'cause that's what is needed to fullfil your dream, would require a complete reeducation, rise of awareness and a change of attitude among gamers themselves. Something, that just won't happen. So my predistion is that games, including MMOs, will be nothing like today in 10 years. They will be ten times worse. And nobody will care about your living, breathing world...they'll care about how to make you buy as much shiny useless content for the free and empty game client they just released as possible.

 

[Sirnaq]

If you've read my full post, then you'll know that I'm aware that the MMOs of today aren't worthy of the Witcher-concept, and that I want them to grow up before they can handle it. Also, I didn't suggest an idea - I posed a question. Nor do I think of it as a terrible question (or idea, if you will), because then I would obviously not have written it.

So you don't understand after all. Ask yourself a question: "Why do i like witcher games?"
Is it because gameplay? - Noo, they have OK gameplay at best, mostly mediocre.
Is it because settings? - Noo, fantasy setting is overused by everyone for years, we could use any other settings without butchering another good franchise
Is it because graphics? - Graphics is only cherry on the cake, not fundamental feature of the game also you can't have good graphics on mmo, not even in 10 or 20 years it's just physically impossible no matter how powerful monster as graphic card you will have in 20 years.

The answer to that question is: story, writing, characters and wonderful continuation of good saga. You can't have any of this things in mmo so basically you are stripping all things that make witcher franchise good. Not even in one hundred years you are going to make witcher mmo worth a broken cent.

There is also a question how would you make witcher mmo politically correct game for everyone as every mmo must be to survive, without butchering whole games and books canon?

And finally: Why? Why would anyone want to play witcher mmo? This is f****** beyond me.

 

[AsTheDeath]

I have to agree that I think that what makes The Witcher great would see absolutely zero improvement in the form of an MMO. The Witcher is a great game because it's a personal story set in a believable world; not the other way around (as is the case, I think, with TES, in which the game world is great, but story and characters are absolute... nevermind). A game that works well as MMO would be a Star Wars game (though I think SWTOR wasn't that interesting), or perhaps TES, though I'm not sure about the latter. The Witcher is a single-player experience, and I enjoy it because of that, I absolutely don't need other players or even PVP in this series.

Though I am also not such a fan of MMOs in general, I think that if they manage to create your Utopia, much more interesting MMOs could be created. But even then TW hardly seems a good choice to use as a universe (full of Witchers? Or just boring knights? And what about your own, non-linear, personal story? Why would you do single-player MMO if you can just do single player?)

EDIT: I believe I have been ninja'd by Sirnaq. Good points, sir, I could have said it that way myself : P.

 

[chlong7]

You have nice ideas, OP, but I wouldn't play it. I hate MMOs. It just doesn't matter how you design them. The closest thing to an MMO that I can stand is what From Software does with its Souls games or Capcom's pawn sharing in Dragon's Dogma. I really don't want other people in my game, and I dislike being chained to an online service in order to play.

 

[cyberbard]

Again. Interesting. But as Aaden wrote: utopia. Look what direction gaming is heading in: less quality, wider appeal. And I see no reason this trend would change in the foreseeable future. Indie games and Kickstarter alone won't do it. A radical change, 'cause that's what is needed to fullfil your dream, would require a complete reeducation, rise of awareness and a change of attitude among gamers themselves. Something, that just won't happen. So my predistion is that games, including MMOs, will be nothing like today in 10 years. They will be ten times worse. And nobody will care about your living, breathing world...they'll care about how to make you buy as much shiny useless content for the free and empty game client they just released as possible.

Not seeking to argue here, but I respectfully disagree. You have many very valid points about where we might be headed, but I think that you underestimate the power of the for- err, I mean internet. We are already witnessing a sort of decline of publishers, where big studios are sold and staff let go. There are a few giants still on the rise (I'm guessing EA among others) who'd stop at nothing to suck the industry dry of money and leave it behind if they could (paradoxically enough as it is also their income). This is because they publish games to virtually every demography, including fit women, children, teenage boys, adults, sports-fans, musicians, etcetera. However, I think the industry is still cooling down from the big boom of recent years' console sales, which brought with it swarms of new players previously unfamiliar with gaming. These boys and girls have up until very recently thought Modern Warfare-like titles to be awesome, which has probably helped quite a bit in bringing us to the dire situation in which we find ourselves presently. Publishers couldn't (and still can't) throw out enough of these on the market. Or so they thought.

The fact that websites like Kickstarter, projects like Humble Bundle, and frankly the entire indie-scene is booming right now (and getting big titles published on Steam for standard prices) says something. I think we are at a point where a lot of things are converging: cloud gaming (soon, anyway), free internet-based publishing (can you say Minecraft?), talented and very serious indie-studios that have moved out of mom's basement, a gaming audience so sick of the same generic stuff it's literally demanding developers to change their games (ME3 ending), and a certain maturity within the industry itself. Keep in mind it's a very young medium which is still finding its place. In time, I'm certain there will be lots of crap still, but also many jewels among those, simply because so many people will be making games. You'll find lots of rubbish in Hollywood, too, but there are some directors out there (on big and small budgets) who really know how to dazzle an audience. So, while I'm rambling a lot, I think a lot of signals indicate a change within the industry. Perhaps not within 10 years, but it has begun.

 

[Sirnaq]

Yet you are suggesting witcher as mmo. Sure, there are good mmos! What makes good mmo is complete opposite of what making witcher games good. Really great mmo consist of TEAMPLAY, complex yet balanced gameplay and at the end of the day you must make it interesting, fun and competitive. Setting in mmo is completely irrelevant. I played really great mmos with pink smiling jelly as enemies, yet with fantastic gameplay.