Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10832071 said:[...]2) We don't really see discussions between her and her parents or anyone else about what she did while she was with the Rats, we don't see her opinion about what she did (we don't know if she has bad dreams or good dreams about what she did, if she cries at night or touches herself [...]
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10832071 said:[...]4) We don't see how her past actions are affecting what she does now.[...]
Deemonef;n10832651 said:I mean... do you really want this: That Ciri tells everybody she met at the last 90 pages what she did? "Hello I'm Zoltan, sorry that your parents died" - "Hello I'm Ciri, I was a bandit and killed people, and I liked it" ; "We are the lodge" - "And I am Ciri, I kille a lot of people while I was a bandit" etc. *sarcasm* I for myself don't tell everybody I met, what I did wrong in my life, this is just normal, but it doesn't mean I never did it or ignore it. It just would seem weird to read such sentence in the last parts of the book, cause nobody act like this. We will never know if Ciri tell this to people she will know better, knew better or if she will keep it a secret for herself.
Gwynbleidds;n10833031 said:It seem to me that Ciri speaks about it with Vysogota of Corvo, no?
Deemonef;n10832651 said:or that he ignored her actions
How does he not? They aren't mentioned again , we don't know how many characters in the book know about them, how they feel about them (the ones that do know), what Ciri feels about them and how these past actions influence her current actions (if they do influence them at all).Gwynbleidds;n10833031 said:I do not see how Sapkowski ignores the past actions of Ciri
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10836801 said:How does he not? They aren't mentioned again , we don't know how many characters in the book know about them, how they feel about them (the ones that do know), what Ciri feels about them and how these past actions influence her current actions (if they do influence them at all).
Gwynbleidds;n10837661 said:I would so much like to debate unfortunately I am limited by the language. But for how many characters in the book know about them, I imagine that there is only Geralt and Yennefer. There is certainly also Jaskier :
To say I knew her would be an exaggeration. I think that, apart from the Witcher and the enchantress, no one really knew her. When I saw her for the first time she did not make a great impression on me at all, even in spite of the quite extraordinary accompanying circumstances. I have known people who said that, right away, from the very first encounter, they sensed the foretaste of death striding behind the girl. To me she seemed utterly ordinary, though I knew that ordinary she was not; for which reason I tried to discern, discover — sense — the singularity in her. But I noticed nothing and sensed nothing. Nothing that could have been a signal, a presentiment or a harbinger of those subsequent, tragic events. Events caused by her very existence. And those caused by her actions.Half a Century of Poetry
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10814211 said:Funny how different people people can read the same thing and draw totally opposite conclusions.
I also haven't finished the books, I just finished The Tower of the Swallow, so maybe my opinions will change. But the last 2 books haven't done anything else than to confirm my feelings...
...Anyway,after venting my frustrations, let me congratulate again all the book readers that enjoyed Ciri deveploment, wish I was you.
SigilFey;n10855221 said:Separate thing, what do you mean by her unborn child being the Source? I either haven't read to that point or completely missed this.
Deemonef;n10856941 said:I think he means that Ciri is not the "important" person for the people who want her. Due to the prophecy Ciri's child/grandchild will be the (for the Dziki Gon) person who saves the elves from the White Frost; (for the human kind) the mightiest ruler who ever exited or (for the sorceresses) the one queen that will rule with magic over the world and bring freedom.
PS: Amazing comment, thanks for it.
SigilFey;n10855221 said:I simply view Ciri as follows (based on what I do know): - She had no solid upbringing. - She was used by many people. - She had her "home" continuously uprooted. - She possesses a power that tempts her and terrifies her in equal measure. - She was forced to survive in horrific circumstances. - She was abused in pretty much all ways imaginable. + Despite all this, she somehow manages to identify and hold onto love.
That is the thing, in previous books she proved that she understood on an emotional level too that victimising others is wrong, she was quite full of righteous indignation against some of those perpetrators.SigilFey;n10855221 said:(Even if they understand their actions on an intellectual level, they often cannot relate at all on an emotional level. It's not until they've committed the "crime" and have "the blood on their hands" that they begin to understand why it's a crime. It might be another 10 years before they're old enough to fully and truly understand it.) What I don't see is Ciri ever once denying to herself what she is. Only struggling head-to-head with it.
I honestly don't know how you reached to this conclusions. For one like I said she isn't the one with the great power but her child. She is a medium and she does have the ability to jump between worlds but besides that she is just like any other young sorceresses full with untapped potential. Secondly both Geralt and Lady Yennefer proved to be more than capable of disciplining her when it was needed. Nenneke also had her respect and I doubt that the sorceresses at the Academy would have had any real troubles in educating her.SigilFey;n10855221 said:Another consideration is the fact that she grew into adulthood largely without boundaries. Her power means that absolutely no one can "force" her to do something. That means that even as a child (teenager), there was no way to "punish" her when she "did something wrong". That would be quite a mind-job even for many adults.
Once again I disagree. I believe that someone actions are the only way in which someone can be judged after all is said and done.SigilFey;n10855221 said:So for me, in the end, it's not about what she's done, it's about what she overcame. I view her character to be something of a parallel to Yennefer. I don't even want to consider the decimated lives that Yen left in her wake to become the sorceress she is in the stories...but she still winds up being an incredibly positive element in the end.
I really don't believe that killing a bunch of people for selfish reasons (especially reasons as sick as the ones Ciri had) has ever made someone a better person. I don't believe it ever will. But even if that would be true, since I don't believe that some lives are more valuable than other, taking a lot of lives to self-improve one, even the one of a main character, still wouldn't feel like a silver lining or something to be celebrated or even accepted.SigilFey;n10855221 said:I'm surprised she didn't completely crumble into a force of pure destruction for herself and anyone around her. But in the end, those failures helped to shape her into the woman portrayed in TW3
Well unlike most of them I don't think shackling Ciri will bring me world domination, so isn't quite the same mindset :smiling2:SigilFey;n10861471 said:You share the mindset of any character in the novel who would want to shackle Ciri
True. What to some is just another step in personal growth to others is her defining (and unforgivable ) trait.SigilFey;n10861471 said:Like I said earlier, it's all about perspective
The problem with unconditional love is that loving unconditionally a villain can turn you into a villain too. Just look at poor Lydia van Bredevoort. And parents especially need to do way more than just love their children. For example turning into an accessory after the fact while emotionally understandable is still profoundly wrong from a moral point of view. Let's not forget that while Ciri represents Evil, Geralt is supposed to represent Good going by Sapkowski interview.SigilFey;n10861471 said:As for how she's portrayed in the novels and how people like Geralt and Vesemir think of her...it's unconditional love
I agree that is more realistic and I also like that. But that doesn't mean that I don't feel sad when good deeds go unrewarded or when evil goes unpunished, when good characters suffer or die and when undeserving ones thrive. For exampleDeemonef;n10867591 said:But that's how the world goes, I like this realistic parts of Sapkowski's stories. No real Happy end, not all the villains are beaten, not all the heroes are safe and sound, not all good deeds were rewarded and not all evil deeds were punished. And a story have to end, it can't go on and on till every liitle thing is fulfilled etc.
It's more realistic that way and I like this.