Witcher 3 and serious issues with G - Sync

[LordOfMordor]

Witcher 3 and serious issues with G - Sync

Hey Everyone,
Recently i bought a new monitor it is the ROG Swift PG27AQ 4K G - Sync IPS Panel, to my bad luck Witcher 3 runs very poorly, the game stutters and seriously lags to an extent the game makes the whole computer stuck for seconds and it keeps on happening, i have tried everything while G sync is on i have turned V sync on or off, shifted from border less full screen to full screen, from unlimited fps to 60 fps with no help what so ever but as soon as i turn off g sync off from the Nvidia control panel the game works perfectly . I have tried all the games with G sync on such as Rise of the tomb raider, ghost recon wild lands, bf 1 , AC syndicate, shadow of mordor . they work perfectly with G sync on but witcher is so bad .. please suggest me some fixes

my specs

Win 10

i7 - 6850k @ stock clocks
G.skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB rams
Zotac 1080Ti Amp Extreme
Corsair Ax1200i

 

[SigilFey]

Welcome to the Forums, LordOfMordor!
Gsync, unlimited FPS, or 3rd-party frame-caps / vsync don't really cooperate well with the engine.

Gsync's claim to fame is being able to allow unlimited FPS without screen tearing. Unlimited FPS throws many of TW3's processes (which rely on accurate frame-timing) all out-of-whack. You'll likely need to disable Gsync, then ensure the following are set:

Under Nvidia Control Panel (game-specific settings for witcher3.exe):

Anisotropic Filtering = 16x (great little tweak for no performance cost)
Frames to render ahead = 1 (Be sure you're not changing "Virtual" frames to render ahead.)
Vsync = Controlled by the 3D application
Monitor Refresh Rate = 60 Hz

In-Game:

Fullscreen
Vsync = On
Frame Limit = 60 FPS (If you get stuttering, manually edit your user.settings file and change FPSLimit=XX. I'm using a 48 FPS cap on my 980 ti and the gameplay has been flawless.)

In short, the game wants to run at 30 FPS. It will cooperate with 60 FPS, occasionally showing some attitude. It starts throwing tantrums when running at anything over 60. The same is true of most complex, real-time RPGs. Too many processes that need to be in sync.

 

[LordOfMordor]

Welcome to the Forums, LordOfMordor!
Gsync, unlimited FPS, or 3rd-party frame-caps / vsync don't really cooperate well with the engine.

Gsync's claim to fame is being able to allow unlimited FPS without screen tearing. Unlimited FPS throws many of TW3's processes (which rely on accurate frame-timing) all out-of-whack. You'll likely need to disable Gsync, then ensure the following are set:

Under Nvidia Control Panel (game-specific settings for witcher3.exe):

Anisotropic Filtering = 16x (great little tweak for no performance cost)
Frames to render ahead = 1 (Be sure you're not changing "Virtual" frames to render ahead.)
Vsync = Controlled by the 3D application
Monitor Refresh Rate = 60 Hz

In-Game:

Fullscreen
Vsync = On
Frame Limit = 60 FPS (If you get stuttering, manually edit your user.settings file and change FPSLimit=XX. I'm using a 48 FPS cap on my 980 ti and the gameplay has been flawless.)

In short, the game wants to run at 30 FPS. It will cooperate with 60 FPS, occasionally showing some attitude. It starts throwing tantrums when running at anything over 60. The same is true of most complex, real-time RPGs. Too many processes that need to be in sync.

thanks for your reply first all i would like to ask there is not option of frames to render ahead int he control but there is maximum pre- rendered frames option , is it the one ?

 

[SigilFey]

maximum pre- rendered frames option

That's the one! They seem to change what it's called every so often. (AMD calls it "Flip Queue Size"...and often doesn't include it as an option. [Shrugs.])

 

[WalteriusMaximus]

Welcome to the Forums, LordOfMordor!
Gsync, unlimited FPS, or 3rd-party frame-caps / vsync don't really cooperate well with the engine.

Gsync's claim to fame is being able to allow unlimited FPS without screen tearing. Unlimited FPS throws many of TW3's processes (which rely on accurate frame-timing) all out-of-whack. You'll likely need to disable Gsync, then ensure the following are set:

Under Nvidia Control Panel (game-specific settings for witcher3.exe):

Anisotropic Filtering = 16x (great little tweak for no performance cost)
Frames to render ahead = 1 (Be sure you're not changing "Virtual" frames to render ahead.)
Vsync = Controlled by the 3D application
Monitor Refresh Rate = 60 Hz

In-Game:

Fullscreen
Vsync = On
Frame Limit = 60 FPS (If you get stuttering, manually edit your user.settings file and change FPSLimit=XX. I'm using a 48 FPS cap on my 980 ti and the gameplay has been flawless.)

In short, the game wants to run at 30 FPS. It will cooperate with 60 FPS, occasionally showing some attitude. It starts throwing tantrums when running at anything over 60. The same is true of most complex, real-time RPGs. Too many processes that need to be in sync.

This is a very handy bit of information, thanks SigilFey!

 

[duchU]

1. Isn't 'Anisotropic Filtering = 16x' used by default when playing on Ultra?
2. Also what's the best value for 'Frames to render ahead' in case of TW2 and TW1?

 

[WalteriusMaximus]

1. Isn't 'Anisotropic Filtering = 16x' used by default when playing on Ultra?
2. Also what's the best value for 'Frames to render ahead' in case of TW2 and TW1?

1 - No. This is a Nvidia control panel setting. Turn it on and you will see the difference.

2 - It's a good setting to use for all games, but not all games will noticeably benefit.

 

[SigilFey]

1. Isn't 'Anisotropic Filtering = 16x' used by default when playing on Ultra?

In-game AF is set to 16x at Ultra. The tweak above is an additional 16x filter that further enhances the textures. It won't be like seeing 32x AF, but it tidies things up a bit more.

2. Also what's the best value for 'Frames to render ahead' in case of TW2 and TW1?

Not sure. Legacy titles will often react differently on different setups. I would leave all settings on "Controlled by the 3D application" / "Default" unless there's an issue.

 

[duchU]

In-game AF is set to 16x at Ultra. The tweak above is an additional 16x filter that further enhances the textures. It won't be like seeing 32x AF, but it tidies things up a bit more.

Crap. Good to know after two playthroughs...

Not sure. Legacy titles will often react differently on different setups. I would leave all settings on "Controlled by the 3D application" / "Default" unless there's an issue.

Well, TW1 still lags in Trade Quarter during the day even on i7-4790K so it might be a good idea to try this value anyway. And TW2 is the same engine as TW3, only earlier version.

One more question -> should I still set it to 1 when playing TW3 with G-sync @ 144Hz?

 

[SigilFey]

Well, TW1 still lags in Trade Quarter during the day even on i7-4790K so it might be a good idea to try this value anyway. And TW2 is the same engine as TW3, only earlier version.

Open a thread for this here: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/forum/en/the-witcher-series/the-witcher/tech-support-ab

Be sure to ping me with SigilFey in your message, and we can troubleshoot. (Holy bovine! There's recent traffic there, too... I have lapsed in my duties of perusing the boards. )

One more question -> should I still set it to 1 when playing TW3 with G-sync @ 144Hz?

Maybe?(![?]) I wish this was as simple as a Yes / No answer. This is what I was trying to clarify above. High FPS normally results in either a.) "dropped frames" or b.) "duplicate frames".

a.) Dropped: I have a powerful GPU, but my monitor is set to low Hz (59 Hz or 60 Hz). The GPU can render, say, 120+ frames per second, but my monitor will only ever draw a maximum of 60 full frames per second with Vsync on. The rest of those frames will be "dropped" -- deleted from the video buffer without ever being drawn. Alternatively, if vsync is off, multiple, partial frames will be drawn as the screen refreshes from top to bottom, resulting in, for example, the top of the screen being drawn from frame 1, the middle of the screen from frame 2, and the bottom of the screen from frame 3. This is what creates "screen tearing". It keeps FPS up by impacting image quality, but it also means that no single "value" can be applied to a single frame.

b.) Duplicate: If my monitor is capable of drawing more frames than the GPU can actually render (monitor is refreshing at 120 Hz or 144 Hz, but the game is only cranking out ~50 FPS), this means there are "empty" frames. GPUs will cope with this by re-assigning already-drawn frames again, ensuring there's an image on-screen every time the monitor refreshes.

(Takes another deep breath.) So, if a game relies on accurate "frame-timing", (i.e. like TW3 or Skyrim do for PhysX calculations), that means that the game engine will call for drawn frames at regular intervals, check the 3D data (like where an arrow is in its arc of flight), and use the data it finds to calculate where the arrow should be in the next drawn frame. If the engine finds a missing frame (dropped frames), mixed data from multiple frames (screen tearing / vsync off), and/or repeated frames (duplicate frames) it can really screw with the game engine's processes, which the engine will then need to cope with. This is when the game may suffer a wacky, physics explosion, stutter, hang, etc.

All of this stuff happens multiple times per second, so the most important thing for complex RPGs, Strategy, and some Simulations is to ensure your FPS is synced, not "high". For TW3 (and likely TW1 and 2) it is safest that 1.) rendered FPS never exceed 60, 2.) drawn FPS never exceed 60, 3.) drawn frames are always "whole", and 4.) no one process ever drastically exceeds another.

Hence:
1.) Frame Limit = (set to something the GPU will always be able to hit)
2.) Vsync = On (the game will always draw only whole frames)
3.) Fullscreen (the game will sync every frame with every game process directly through the engine. [This is different for different engines -- e.g. always play Bethesda titles in Borderless / Windowed.])
4.) Monitor Refresh = 60 Hz (rendered and drawn frames fall within the same limit)

As for older titles, try to set them up to run as closely as possible to the environment they were developed in. So, this often means jacking up all of the graphical goodies while simultaneously nerfing all of your modern system's outrageous power to keep things in sync. (Note: This doesn't usually apply to more "Action-y" titles. So, games like Call of Duty...144 Hz, G-Sync On, 160+ FPS -- go for it! Games like that a built for speed. Don't try the same thing with ArmA. You'll wind up with tanks on the moon.)

 

[duchU]

Open a thread for this here: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/forum/en/the-witcher-series/the-witcher/tech-support-ab

Be sure to ping me with SigilFey in your message, and we can troubleshoot. (Holy bovine! There's recent traffic there, too... I have lapsed in my duties of perusing the boards. )

Thanks but there is no need for that. Have recently finished TW1 again after many years and it was truly epic experience with ReShade and insane FPS in most places. I remember that back in the day Trade Quarter was a pain when it comes to performance and it's still is apparently. Of course fps is significantly higher now but it's still way lower than in different areas. I guess it's related to the amount of NPCs cuz during a night everything is smooth as butter.

Maybe?(![?]) I wish this was as simple as a Yes / No answer. This is what I was trying to clarify above. High FPS normally results in either a.) "dropped frames" or b.) "duplicate frames".

a.) Dropped: I have a powerful GPU, but my monitor is set to low Hz (59 Hz or 60 Hz). The GPU can render, say, 120+ frames per second, but my monitor will only ever draw a maximum of 60 full frames per second with Vsync on. The rest of those frames will be "dropped" -- deleted from the video buffer without ever being drawn. Alternatively, if vsync is off, multiple, partial frames will be drawn as the screen refreshes from top to bottom, resulting in, for example, the top of the screen being drawn from frame 1, the middle of the screen from frame 2, and the bottom of the screen from frame 3. This is what creates "screen tearing". It keeps FPS up by impacting image quality, but it also means that no single "value" can be applied to a single frame.

b.) Duplicate: If my monitor is capable of drawing more frames than the GPU can actually render (monitor is refreshing at 120 Hz or 144 Hz, but the game is only cranking out ~50 FPS), this means there are "empty" frames. GPUs will cope with this by re-assigning already-drawn frames again, ensuring there's an image on-screen every time the monitor refreshes.

(Takes another deep breath.) So, if a game relies on accurate "frame-timing", (i.e. like TW3 or Skyrim do for PhysX calculations), that means that the game engine will call for drawn frames at regular intervals, check the 3D data (like where an arrow is in its arc of flight), and use the data it finds to calculate where the arrow should be in the next drawn frame. If the engine finds a missing frame (dropped frames), mixed data from multiple frames (screen tearing / vsync off), and/or repeated frames (duplicate frames) it can really screw with the game engine's processes, which the engine will then need to cope with. This is when the game may suffer a wacky, physics explosion, stutter, hang, etc.

All of this stuff happens multiple times per second, so the most important thing for complex RPGs, Strategy, and some Simulations is to ensure your FPS is synced, not "high". For TW3 (and likely TW1 and 2) it is safest that 1.) rendered FPS never exceed 60, 2.) drawn FPS never exceed 60, 3.) drawn frames are always "whole", and 4.) no one process ever drastically exceeds another.

Hence:
1.) Frame Limit = (set to something the GPU will always be able to hit)
2.) Vsync = On (the game will always draw only whole frames)
3.) Fullscreen (the game will sync every frame with every game process directly through the engine. [This is different for different engines -- e.g. always play Bethesda titles in Borderless / Windowed.])
4.) Monitor Refresh = 60 Hz (rendered and drawn frames fall within the same limit)

As for older titles, try to set them up to run as closely as possible to the environment they were developed in. So, this often means jacking up all of the graphical goodies while simultaneously nerfing all of your modern system's outrageous power to keep things in sync. (Note: This doesn't usually apply to more "Action-y" titles. So, games like Call of Duty...144 Hz, G-Sync On, 160+ FPS -- go for it! Games like that a built for speed. Don't try the same thing with ArmA. You'll wind up with tanks on the moon.)

Yep, I know that but G-sync works on hardware level and it adjusts monitor refresh rate to the actual fps GPU is able to provide at that time (it's useful cuz even with GTX 1070 I'm getting something like ~50 fps in some areas and funny thing is it's not Novigrad nor Oxenfurt - they both provide much higher fps - but areas that you would think they should have way higher fps than the cities). And really there is a difference between 60 and 100 fps when it comes to smoothness. I have never had a problem with high fps in TW1 and TW2. In case of TW3 there is only one annoying thing that happens for me but since it happens rather rarely and it's extreme only in the case of elevator in Skellige I prefer to have unlimited fps.

 

[SigilFey]

Yep, I know that but G-sync works on hardware level and it adjusts monitor refresh rate to the actual fps GPU is able to provide at that time (it's useful cuz even with GTX 1070 I'm getting something like ~50 fps in some areas and funny thing is it's not Novigrad nor Oxenfurt - they both provide much higher fps - but areas that you would think they should have way higher fps than the cities). And really there is a difference between 60 and 100 fps when it comes to smoothness. I have never had a problem with high fps in TW1 and TW2. In case of TW3 there is only one annoying thing that happens for me but since it happens rather rarely and it's extreme only in the case of elevator in Skellige I prefer to have unlimited fps.

I can simply reaffirm that TW3 does not want to run above 60 FPS. If the game exceeds that, there will almost certainly be engine issues somewhere -- even if I don't "notice it" or they don't "bother me". What are you seeing with the elevator in Kaer Trolde? The performance degradation in other, odd areas is still likely the result if G-Sync. G-Sync monitors have their own processor built into the monitor itself. These "hook" multiple renders coming from the GPU and dynamically sync multiple frames visually so that they "line up" (basically allowing unlimited FPS but doing away with screen tearing.) The game will still treat each frame as multiple frames, however, and the ability to accurately receive data from any one, single frame will not be possible. It's inherently running the game with generic, unlimited FPS -- the game won't be able to tell the difference.

When vsync is plain "On", GPU rendering is capped at plain "60" (or less), and the monitor refreshes exactly "60" times per second (or less), that's what results in whole, complete frames. One frame, drawn once from the top of the screen to the bottom, from one rendering pass in the GPU, from only one, contiguous block of 3D data. That's what the game wants. Anything else means it has to go back and do the math again or "round off" the data and do something with inaccurate numbers.

Now, it's worth saying that players simply don't care about little burps and hiccups like that. That's fine! It's not likely that anything will be harmed by running the game at unlimited FPS: just stutters, inconsistent FPS, AI schedules may occasionally be funky, physics weirdness, graphical pop-in now and then, combat responsiveness may be a little off...and none of this consistently, necessarily. (Speaking for myself, for example, I was getting pretty wild fluctuations in FPS under v1.31 -- leaping from low 40's all the way to 60 seemingly at random. By further lowering the FPS cap to 48, it left enough overhead for whatever the game was trying to do, and now my FPS do not move. Every location, every weather condition, any number of NPCs on the screen, in or out of combat...48 FPS. It's just a particular engine, is all.)

 

[duchU]

I can simply reaffirm that TW3 does not want to run above 60 FPS. If the game exceeds that, there will almost certainly be engine issues somewhere -- even if I don't "notice it" or they don't "bother me". What are you seeing with the elevator in Kaer Trolde?

When using the elevator (going up) frames are 'shaking'. Something like a few pixels up and down and it creates a blurry effect. It's the only place where it becomes kinda extreme. It happens from time to time during the gameplay but it's a way less notacible. And the thing is when I set frame limit to 60 the game is not smooth for me anymore so for better game expirience I prefer to uncap it.

The performance degradation in other, odd areas is still likely the result if G-Sync. G-Sync monitors have their own processor built into the monitor itself. These "hook" multiple renders coming from the GPU and dynamically sync multiple frames visually so that they "line up" (basically allowing unlimited FPS but doing away with screen tearing.) The game will still treat each frame as multiple frames, however, and the ability to accurately receive data from any one, single frame will not be possible. It's inherently running the game with generic, unlimited FPS -- the game won't be able to tell the difference.

I tested that area with frame cap and G-sync off - same thing. I think some areas are not optimized enough -> the wedding in HoS inside the building. I have seen a lot of people complained about performance when HoS was released. This is probably the most fps demanding area I have tested (of course not tested everything so don't know what area is actually the most demanding one in the game).

Here is a link to a save game with a problematic spot - you may check it yourself, just load it and see what fps you are getting and how does it correspond to your average fps: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bym...NncGp3VWs/view

 

[SigilFey]

Here is a link to a save game with a problematic spot - you may check it yourself, just load it and see what fps you are getting and how does it correspond to your average fps: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bym...NncGp3VWs/view

Hm. It's telling me wrong version. What are you using? Any mods, or have you ever used any?

When using the elevator (going up) frames are 'shaking'. Something like a few pixels up and down and it creates a blurry effect.

That sounds like it could be physics "vibrations" -- it happens when it tries to manage ongoing input between two or more alternating values. You may see the same of thing if playing a Bethesda game and trying to interact with some sort of collision mesh (like pressing against a cabbage on the ground. It won't sit still, or roll...but rather simply "shake" endlessly.)

Simply "disabling G-sync" is not the same thing as enabling standard Vsync through the game with the monitor refresh rate lowered from 144 Hz to 60 Hz. If you can set both of those things and the vibration continues...it could be driver related. I definitely don't see that type of thing on my end. Long, smooth, (rather dangerous,) elevator ride into sky. (Nice view, no guardrails.)

Overall, the game is picky. It can be quite stutter-ish until you find the perfect balance for your system. For me to help you further, post your exact Nvidia CP and in-game settings (the ones I listed above).

 

[duchU]

Hm. It's telling me wrong version. What are you using? Any mods, or have you ever used any?

It's GOTY from GOG. 1.31, NG+, No mods, Windows 7, Polish language pack installed. From what I remember I had been testing Free Camera mod once but that's it, I think.

EDIT:
I installed this version -> setup_witcher3_en_goty_2.0.0.51.exe
but I see that now this one is there instead -> setup_the_witcher_3_wild_hunt_goty_1.31_(a)_(9709) _(g).exe

EDIT2:
So I reinstalled the game with the newest/current version from GOG and that savegame works without any problems. Does it matter if it's Windows 7 or Windows 10?

That sounds like it could be physics "vibrations" -- it happens when it tries to manage ongoing input between two or more alternating values. You may see the same of thing if playing a Bethesda game and trying to interact with some sort of collision mesh (like pressing against a cabbage on the ground. It won't sit still, or roll...but rather simply "shake" endlessly.)

Simply "disabling G-sync" is not the same thing as enabling standard Vsync through the game with the monitor refresh rate lowered from 144 Hz to 60 Hz. If you can set both of those things and the vibration continues...it could be driver related. I definitely don't see that type of thing on my end. Long, smooth, (rather dangerous,) elevator ride into sky. (Nice view, no guardrails.)

Overall, the game is picky. It can be quite stutter-ish until you find the perfect balance for your system. For me to help you further, post your exact Nvidia CP and in-game settings (the ones I listed above).

It's related to frame limit not G-sync. This effect is not present when frames are limited to 60.

 

[SigilFey]

It's GOTY from GOG. 1.31, NG+, No mods, Windows 7, Polish language pack installed. From what I remember I had been testing Free Camera mod once but that's it, I think.

EDIT:
I installed this version -> setup_witcher3_en_goty_2.0.0.51.exe
but I see that now this one is there instead -> setup_the_witcher_3_wild_hunt_goty_1.31_(a)_(9709) _(g).exe

EDIT2:
So I reinstalled the game with the newest/current version from GOG and that savegame works without any problems. Does it matter if it's Windows 7 or Windows 10?

It seems like there's something in your save state, maybe mod related. Are you able to load the same, saved game you posted under your new installation?

It's related to frame limit not G-sync. This effect is not present when frames are limited to 60.

Heh heh heh... It's all of it.

The Havoc physics engine, in particular, will call your monitor for data, not the GPU. (That's not entirely accurate, but should help highlight the issue.) If your monitor is refreshing more than 60 Hz, data gets repeated. If the frames associated with the monitor are not "whole", mixed data gets jumbled. If frames need to be repeated in the renderer and are actually drawn, data gets repeated. If whole frames are drawn faster than 60 Hz, too much data is produced and it gets jumbled.

So there are multiple ways to break the physics, from multiple different angles. Plus, the sweet-spot to get things working 100% as well as the amount of wiggle-room that every system has will be different for different PCs. As long as you've figured out the balance for yours -- that's the answer!

 

[duchU]

It seems like there's something in your save state, maybe mod related. Are you able to load the same, saved game you posted under your new installation?

Yep, it works with completely fresh installation of the newest GOG GOTY version without any problems... So it cannot be about mods.

 

[SigilFey]

Yep, it works with completely fresh installation of the newest GOG GOTY version without any problems... So it cannot be about mods.

It can. Even after mods are removed, not all changes made to config files or reference data in the save-state are removed. Sounds like you lucked out, though! If the saved game works fine after the re-install, the issue was somewhere in the config files. Your save state-seems clean.

 

[duchU]

It can. Even after mods are removed, not all changes made to config files or reference data in the save-state are removed. Sounds like you lucked out, though! If the saved game works fine after the re-install, the issue was somewhere in the config files. Your save state-seems clean.

But it works with default config files that come with an installation. All files are fresh/new except savegames

 

[SigilFey]

But it works with default config files that come with an installation. All files are fresh/new except savegames

Precisely. That means that something in your past config (and my present config) isn't agreeing with that saved game. As long as everything is working now: "gift horse". (Don't check it's teeth. It's liable to shed its mane and tail and teleport onto a roof. )