FP VS TP - perspective matters

[hdfdbingo]

>be CDPR
>build a massive fanbase who likes Third Person Perspective games with the Witcher series
>make new game with character customization
>can't make it have a Third Person Perspective in order to favor immersion
>but can make it have Third Person during cutscenes and while driving

My interest in buying this game went from 100% to 0% in two days.

Spoiler

And this is coming from someone whose favorite game is Fallout: New Vegas, at least in that game we can toggle between TPP and FPP.

 

[CognacSnack]

If you expected a legit 1 for 1 adaptation of the PNP game with no restrictions then frankly you were being incredibly unrealistic.

And how was I to know this when we'd been shown and told nothing about the game for five years? When we get videos of the maker of the original PnP game hyping up the game?

 

[Rawls]

Second, if its meant to be our character why force the name on us? Why force any of it on us?

We're straying off topic here ... topic of thread is not about player character names. Use a different thread if you want to discuss this.

 

[Holgaroni]

On the consoles, too?

Well, probably not

 

[Loopyfroot]

Posted a couple of pages back. She is a fan and made a ton of videos about CP2077 in the last months.

she was also personally invited by CD PROJEKT RED to the event and flew here from spain.

 

[DCKLGOG]

Also when did they ever say it was gonna be third person?

They said it would support third person. I don't know what sort of industry standard they adhere to, but from my experience, supporting something means handling change requests, fixing bugs, and providing solutions that are substantial and meaningful.
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/cd-p...support-both-first-third-person-perspectives/

Furthermore, they have kept on going on and on about it being better than Witcher 3. That name is associated with 'Third Person Gaming'. It's like saying your soft drink's going to be better than Pepsi, but selling something bitter-tasting to your customers instead.

'Well, we did say it would be better, not sweeter! Besides, plenty of people like bitter things! Beer is bitter! People like it!'

 

[Vhalyr]

Wait, who's blaming anyone? I'm just saying that there will always be disturbances in communication between companies and customers, especially in a process as dynamic as software development, spread over a long period of time.

I may agree on that, but that's all the more reason to try and keep things clear, and not going underground with no communications at all...

 

[KMAAA]

Also when did they ever say it was gonna be third person?

she was also personally invited by CD PROJEKT RED to the event and flew here from spain.

DAAAAYUM then that's a great way to send her back with tears CDPR. Is that true?

 

[Arnhermland]

I'm assuming (yes ... the evil word assume) one of the reasons for selecting FP is Cyberpunk implants and game HUDs.

In most games you get a set HUD, which may, or may not, be customizable. With CP2077 you have the ultimate in customization, the implants your character has determine what HUD elements you have.

From an "immersion" point-of-view I fully understand CDPRs decision, and agree with it.
BUT.
In their quest for the most immersive game possible they made a mistake, shit happens. Hopefully some remedy exists. I seriously doubt anyone at CDPR considered the motion sickness issue or how many people suffer from it (I'm frankly surprised myself, I'd have guessed maybe 5%). And no company in it's right mind is going to say "Fuck 17% (or whatever) of our potential customer base."

It's a mistake, we all make them, have faith they'll do what they can to correct it.

There's a lot to consider in those numbers, yeah many have motion sickness but the majority is not triggered specifically by a first person videogame, there's a lot of different kinds of motion sickness.
Then there's the percentage that's actually interested in videogames and then this videogame.
For example, some people get motion sickness FROM THIRD PERSON, yet you never ever see people talk about that.

And again, people are acting like this was a quick idea, it's been on the drawing board for 5 years and first person is ingrained into the game, everything in the game is designed to be first person, asking them to add/change it to third person is asking them to redo the entire game and possibly scrap many things just to make sure that third person hits the desired standard of quality, this could very well add months if not an entire year of extra development time.
All this because people want to see their pretty clothes more often, that's just selfish.

 

[Fandango9641]

I truly feel bad for those with actual motion sickness and I hope they find a solution, but I also wonder how many are crying wolf just so they can get their desired feature implemented.

Not me z3r0_c001, playing games presented in the first person literally makes me ill. Wish it wasn't true, but it appears many of us are going to have to put CP77 on the list of outstanding games that just aren't for us. Gutted!

 

[Rawls]

They said it would support third person.

I don't think that article you linked is correct. If you want to be REALLY accurate, the specific thing were talking about is the words "tons of customization, mixed TPP/FPP" on a powerpoint slide five years ago.

 

[Vhalyr]

People are overreacting the hell out of this, I understand that motion sickness is a real problem and it sucks, but there are people in here that are straight up trashing CD Projekt and the game, they may not say it straight but they basically are.

We are not trashing CDPR (we wouldn't be here if we didn't think they are great at what they do) nor the game itself. We are putting in discussion some choices that were made along the developing process, which are bizzarre at the very least.

Also, now that i thnk about it: might this change of course been influenced by the theft of assets perpetrated by hackers several months ago?

 

[Razrback16]

Agreed. I like that you are a man who is moved more by reason than rage.

For the record, I support a TPP/FPP mix more like Metal Gear Solid V's: TPP during free roam, FPP when aiming or crawling through very narrow spaces.

That's basically what I was expecting. TPP while walking around interacting with people, things, etc. but when combat happens it either switches automatically to FPP, or you have a toggle button to do it when desired.

I'm very disappointed and strongly leaning toward not buying CP2077, but I'm not going to write it off completely yet due to the faith I've had in CDPR and the fantastic job they did with all the Witcher games (please make more!), and as a result of that faith, I am going to withhold final judgement until I see actual gameplay video.

This situation with CP2077 reminds me a little of my experience with Kingdom Come Deliverance and the way I approached it - I had heard about it and thought it sounded really cool, then I saw it was FPP which I thought was awful. But I didn't give up there, I tried to talk myself into getting it, and went out and watched some vids and was actually close to buying it until I saw videos of the combat and the combat (IMO, no offense to people who liked it) just looked terrible and at that point I wrote the game off and never bought it. I'm hoping that maybe when I see some actual gameplay videos from CDPR and the combat, that maybe my reaction will be different and I'll think "wow, that looks really cool and fun to play" and then I'll want to buy it. Won't know until CDPR releases those gameplay videos though. Time will tell....

 

[kingsword]

I read that they created dynamic dialogue system than only work because of FPP. Bascially u can move around during dialogue and you are not locked in cutscene like in Witcher 3 or other RPGs. So there is literally 0 % chance that they will implement TPP fully. There is possibility maybe for some sort half assed exploration TPP view with minimalistic animations. The biggest chance is that we'll get "Photo-Mode" where we can watch our character from every angle without moving him.

Except this was already done by Bethesda in Fallout 4 that worked in both perspectives. It's possible.

 

[BloodyPuppy]

They said it would support third person. I don't know what sort of industry standard they adhere to, but from my experience, supporting something means handling change requests, fixing bugs, and providing solutions that are substantial and meaningful.
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/cd-p...support-both-first-third-person-perspectives/

Furthermore, they have kept on going on and on about it being better than Witcher 3. That name is associated with 'Third Person Gaming'. It's like saying your soft drink's going to be better than Pepsi, but selling something bitter-tasting to your customers instead.

'Well, we did say it would be better, not sweeter! Besides, plenty of people like bitter things! Beer is bitter! People like it!'

I know it's pedantic but the statement given by devs was that gameplay would be a mix of both, indicating that the core game would use both and not necessarily that you swap between them, aka using both would not be optional. The writer of this article changed it to supports which apparently is an important distinction in this case.

 

[Arnhermland]

It breaks my heart to see something like that. Someone said that people are "trashing" over CD PR and the game itself. Well, they deserve it for saying something and then change their view without saying anything to the community. The MadQueen is one of the most supportive youtuber on Cyberpunk and maybe she could not play the game for the FPS. GG CD PR, way to go...

They deserve to be trashed for trying to deliver a quality product that follows their vision?
How entitled can someone be?
They NEVER promised anything, the game has been under wraps, if anything FIRST PERSON was the option that was confirmed with a small mix of third person, this is what they talked about 5 years ago on a conference and it holds true today.

 

[DCKLGOG]

I don't think that article you linked is correct. If you want to be REALLY accurate, the specific thing were talking about is the words "tons of customization, mixed TPP/FPP" on a powerpoint slide five years ago.

Mixed... not FPP with a little teeny little weeny itsy bitsy piece of TPP thrown in.

 

[nocoolnamejim]

Also, now that i thnk about it: might this change of course been influenced by the theft of assets perpetrated by hackers several months ago?

Can you expand on this please? I'm not totally familiar with the theft in question and how it ties together isn't immediately apparent. But it's a subject/debate point nobody has yet raised so it got my attention.

 

[GeometryOfShadows]

I know it's pedantic but the statement given by devs was that gameplay would be a mix of both, indicating that the core game would use both and not necessarily that you swap between them, aka using both would not be optional. The writer of this article changed it to supports which apparently is an important distinction in this case.

Id say that yeah, TPP & FPP sounds like its swapping the two out. TPP in conversation like they are saying now doesnt sound like TPP, it sounds like a cinematic camera for cutscenes.

 

[moonmancharlie]

Rockstar games: we decided to make rdr 2 a fpp game so that you can immerse yourself into the dirty, gritty old west and the shooting works best this way.

Insomniac games: we decided to make the new spiderman a fpp game so that you can feel the immersive verticality and speed of swinging around nyc.

Lame excuse but nice spin.

People would've flipped.

I know its not the same for pre-existing properties but gameplay mechanics, interactivity, verticality, shooting, close spaces and parkour can be done and is usually done better in tpp.

Max payne 3, the arkham games, spiderman, andromeda (combat), soulslike games, ac (parkour), god of war, last of us, and the witcher.

I know there are tons of awesome fpp games in a variety of genres, but can't think of a single awesome open world tpp cyberpunk/sci fi rpg. This game can be as good as any of those fpp games, I just dreamed about a legendary game, walking down the streets at night, the rain on your characters face, neon lights everywhere, trenchcoat blade runner style, going into a seedy establishment for a side quest or a ho...t drink

I know its my fault for mentally creating an image of something I knew next to nothing about, but I can dream.

Hopefully someone, somewhere can make that dream game, sometime.