Combat Thread - General

[kofeiiniturpa]

Oh come on. Now you're really stretching it... lol..

Sure.

But you can see the logic in it, no?
There is a point in it.

The problem is that people see a gun and a First Person PERSPECTIVE and think it's a shooter. It isn't.

I think that people see working first person shooter combat and take it for what it is. If the game turns into an FPS when combat starts, and if combat is a major feature in the game (even if not the biggest and even if mostly avoidable)... well, it is there and has to be dealt with as if the game was primarily a shooter for the duration of the combat (or avoid it when ever possible and miss out on third or fourth of the exoerience). And this works regardless of perspective.

 

[Loki1976]

This is not a "shooter"... It has First Person Perspective. It is an RPG, with stats, story and impact.

 

[Draconifors]

All right, this thread is NOT going to go into the FPP vs TPP territory. Check sticky threads if you haven't already.
Some posts deleted, any future ones promoting FPP/TPP will follow suit.

 

[Snowflakez]

Sure.

But you can see the logic in it, no?
There is a point in it.



I think that people see working first person shooter combat and take it for what it is. If the game turns into an FPS when combat starts, and if combat is a major feature in the game (even if not the biggest and even if mostly avoidable)... well, it is there and has to be dealt with as if the game was primarily a shooter for the duration of the combat (or avoid it when ever possible and miss out on third or fourth of the exoerience). And this works regardless of perspective.

A game is a genre based on the sum total of its parts. A game is not a shooter (first or third) just because it has shooting as one of the way solve encounters. If the game is, for the most part, a story and dialogue-driven title, with multiple types of character progression, statistics, loot, and even character creation, I think it's fair to call it an "RPG."

It can have shooting. That does not make it a shooter (FPS or TPS) anymore than Pillars of Eternity is a text adventure game because that is frequently something you do in the game.

Let's not confuse the terms even more than they already are. As much as we can stick our fingers in our ears and pretend otherwise, based on what we know so far, the difference between 2077 and Doom is 100% clear, even if they share similarities in one very specific part of the game (combat, and even then, the differences seem large).

What people view the game as when they get into combat is not my concern. It will still be an RPG to me so long as all of the other elements live up to my expectations. I totally understand if you only consider an RPG an RPG if every single element is strictly RPG-related (I.E. Pillars of Eternity), but we don't all need to accept that definition, IMO.

BTW.... Partially playing Devil's Advocate here (paging DR Suhiira!). I want RPG combat as much as you.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Let's not confuse the terms even more than they already are.

Sure, let's not. But I wasn't contending terminology of the game. I'm contending a specific feature(s) and how it works.

What people view the game as when they get into combat is not my concern. It will still be an RPG to me so long as all of the other elements live up to my expectations.

I can't turn a blind eye to a major feature like that if it goes counter to what the games insisted genre label suggests and advertises. 2077 is an RPG, no doubt, but so far as we know it does have first person shooter combat (and presumably quite lot of it) that is comparable to it's peers (i.e. Far Cry, nuDeus Ex). I will have to deal with it as such when the time comes, and it feels disjointed and out of place and affects the entire experience negatively -- even more so than nuDX because this is a wide open nonlinear game about options rahter than reaching the goal. As if combat is not deserving to be handled via the same design principles as the RPG stuff otherwise.

 

[Cybercable]

Yeah depending on the player, you can play gta as a shouter or roleplaying game if you want... same for TW3 too it can be just a open world monster slasher if i decide to

 

[Snowflakez]

Sure, let's not. But I wasn't contending terminology of the game. I'm contending a specific feature(s) and how it works.

I can't turn a blind eye to a major feature like that if it goes counter to what the games insisted genre label suggests and advertises. 2077 is an RPG, no doubt, but so far as we know it does have first person shooter combat (and presumably quite lot of it) that is comparable to it's peers (i.e. Far Cry, nuDeus Ex). I will have to deal with it as such when the time comes, and it feels disjointed and out of place and affects the entire experience negatively -- even more so than nuDX because this is a wide open nonlinear game about options rahter than reaching the goal. As if combat is not deserving to be handled via the same design principles as the RPG stuff otherwise.

Fair enough.

Yeah depending on the player, you can play gta as a shouter or roleplaying game if you want... same for TW3 too it can be just a open world monster slasher if i decide to

...wat? You definitely can't play GTA as an RPG. At all.

 

[Sardukhar]

...wat? You definitely can't play GTA as an RPG. At all.

Hey. Whoah. I Rped as the car. Man, DID I HAVE A TIME. Carry these crazy humans around, shift my consciousness to different vehicles, talk to other cars and some trucks ( jerks).

It was a totally different game, brah.

 

[Suhiira]

Well, i wouldn't mind a snappier punchier system, but I for sure don't want the multi-weapon, multi-solution silliness of Doom or Shadow Warrior. Waaaay too gamey. <clip> But please no fast-swap FPS-stype weapons-as-puzzle solvers. Ugh. That's not life and death, that's basically tag.

And that seems to be what we're seeing.
Use weapon type A to perform ricochet shots.
Use weapon type B to shoot thru cover.
Use weapon type C to track your target.

PIck a good weapon or two you like and get good with them - swap in for certain (sniping, CQB) tasks for certain jobs.

What? A reasonable and realistic rather then gamey approach?
Heresy !

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Hey. Whoah. I Rped as the car. Man, DID I HAVE A TIME. Carry these crazy humans around, shift my consciousness to different vehicles, talk to other cars and some trucks ( jerks).

It was a totally different game, brah.

I dunno if that'd suit me. I mean... getting three men inside me and being driven like a bitch through the whole story.

Yeugh.

 

[Suhiira]

I dunno if that'd suit me. I mean... getting three men inside me and being driven like a bitch through the whole story.

Yeugh.

*pictures this for a moment and gets a dreamy smile*

Ummm .... yeah ... right ... not a good idea.

 

[BaalNergal]

...wat? You definitely can't play GTA as an RPG. At all.

It has skills you can level, sports and other nonviolent activities you can play, and if you're really dedicated you can make most of your fortune as a taxi driver.

But, I think we both agree it's still not an RPG

 

[Cybercable]

Of course guys haha dont get me wrong.
I Never assume it is... But im sure people can roleplaying the game indeed its had not all the rpg mecanism (maybe some online mod, im not a gta player i dont know....)
What i mean its however cyberpunk will be made to be an RPG if people want playing it like a FPS they can, skip all dialogues and just run and shoot everythings and this is not my taste if i want a real good FPS i play Squad or something like but its my opinion let them have theirs

 

[Terralventhe]

I doubt there'll be a lot of melee options, myself. Just no way to make them work properly with the perspective. Unless you're going to be doing roundhouse kicks or flips and spins while retaining first person, in which case I imagine even the non-motion sick crowd might start getting dizzy. lol Although.. who knows, maybe you'll unlock the roundhouse kick by converting yourself to a FBC with a 360 rotational neck so your head stays in place while your body spins full-circle.

The same applies to melee weapons too. I expect them to be in short supply unless they're something basic like the Mantis Arms. Other stuff, like monowhips, I doubt you'll be able to apply with the full versatility of such a weapon, so they'll more than likely not even add it or anything else like it. Same with any advanced melee weapon combat - I doubt we'll get any stylish or sweeping swings like Raiden from MGR or anything like that. More than likely it'll be a lot like the Elder Scrolls' first-person combat; a few one-two, maybe a one-two-three, basic swings and/or punches just with better animations.

Your stats will then likely determine how fast you execute, and how much damage you deal - probably also whether you hit or not, based on the affirmation that it's not a FPS game.

 

[BaalNergal]

I doubt there'll be a lot of melee options, myself. Just no way to make them work properly with the perspective. Unless you're going to be doing roundhouse kicks or flips and spins while retaining first person, in which case I imagine even the non-motion sick crowd might start getting dizzy. lol Although.. who knows, maybe you'll unlock the roundhouse kick by converting yourself to a FBC with a 360 rotational neck so your head stays in place while your body spins full-circle. View attachment 10971707

The same applies to melee weapons too. I expect them to be in short supply unless they're something basic like the Mantis Arms. Other stuff, like monowhips, I doubt you'll be able to apply with the full versatility of such a weapon, so they'll more than likely not even add it or anything else like it. Same with any advanced melee weapon combat - I doubt we'll get any stylish or sweeping swings like Raiden from MGR or anything like that. More than likely it'll be a lot like the Elder Scrolls' first-person combat; a few one-two, maybe a one-two-three, basic swings and/or punches just with better animations.

Your stats will then likely determine how fast you execute, and how much damage you deal - probably also whether you hit or not, based on the affirmation that it's not a FPS game.

They could just make things like monowhips infinite-ammunition short-range ranged weapons. I've seen a couple games do similar.

Oddly, whips seem to be unpopular weapons for FPP video games...

 

[Terralventhe]

They could just make things like monowhips infinite-ammunition short-range ranged weapons. I've seen a couple games do similar.

Oddly, whips seem to be unpopular weapons for FPP video games...

It's because you can't really get the full experience with them in FPP. You can really only do a simply wide-sweep swing, or a straight-forward snap.

It's not really feasible to do animations like these:

And you're definitely never gonna get anything like something that of Mistral's whip:

..This is right out. lol

 

[Suhiira]

Oddly, whips seem to be unpopular weapons for FPP video games...

Rather unpopular "weapons" in real life to ... unless you actually believe the BS peddled by Hollywood and video games.

 

[Sardukhar]

I dunno if that'd suit me. I mean... getting three men inside me and being driven like a bitch through the whole story.

Yeugh.

....hawt.

*pictures this for a moment and gets a dreamy smile*
.

Right?

Kofe just doesn't know a good things when he sees them.

 

[BaalNergal]

Rather unpopular "weapons" in real life to ... unless you actually believe the BS peddled by Hollywood and video games.

Well, it's not because they are not dangerous; if you know what you're doing, or don't know what you're doing and are being a dangerous idiot with someone too trusting for their own survival, you can seriously maim or even kill someone with a whip quite easily. But they're just too damned impractical; they require massive specialized training, a specialized design I've only ever seen show up in one movie, and a scenario where they would beat out a sword, polearm, and firearm. Pretty much, you're talking about something like fighting Dracula or an army of werewolves; not something you'd ever see in real life.

 

[Terralventhe]

Rather unpopular "weapons" in real life to ... unless you actually believe the BS peddled by Hollywood and video games.

Or cyberpunk?