Reason of State (spoilers) - what to do?!

[Westland1940]

Hi (This topic could contain spoilers)

I'm doing right now my 3rd playthrough and started for the first time the quest Reason of State. I did my research and read that you have to kill Dijkstra, or, Dijkstra kills Roche en Ves.

What is the "best" ending and what are the differences? Are there differences if you finish this quest before the end of the main story line? And what about Ciri? I don't want her to be a Empress but just a free Witcher.

Thanks!

 

[Restlessdingo32]

That particular quest line influences the "winner" of the war. I'm not sure there is necessarily a best route to take.

Personally, I always figured Geralt telling Djikstra and Roche to fuck off and handle the politics themselves fit his character. On the other hand, Radovid had a hard on for burning magic users at the stake. So, given the relationships Geralt had with Yen, Triss and Ciri, knocking him down a peg could make sense too. In other words, it could be argued dealing with Radovid to preemptively protect the magic wielders Geralt cared about fits his character too.

Djikstra vs Roche is another matter. There I figured Roche was sort of kind of a friend of Geralt. So letting Djikstra have his way felt.... wrong. Granted, the little imp on my back shoulder was screaming to leave it alone. If only so I wouldn't have to listen to Roche spew his "FOR TEMERIA" agenda in my face anymore. I suppose Djikstra was sort of kind of a friend of Geralt too. Honestly, Ves kind of tipped the scales toward Roche on eye candy alone . So... not sure I can provide much help with this choice.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Out of the endings for Ciri, I believe this quest line only impacts the empress ending. For her to become empress Nilfgaard has to win. If memory serves Radovid wins the war if you do not remove him from the equation. Likewise, Djikstra wins, which means Nilfgaard loses, if you let him kill Roche and Ves. So in order to get the empress ending you have to do those quests and side with Roche and Ves. If you're not looking to get the empress ending it doesn't matter.

As an additional note, even if you do this quest and side with Roche and Ves you're not locked into the Ciri empress ending. You can still get either of the other two Ciri endings if you make the proper choices in other areas. The empress ending requires bringing Ciri to see the Emperor too, for instance.

 

[Guest 3847602]

What is the "best" ending and what are the differences?

In my opinion? Both endings where Nilfgaard get their asses kicked and their Emperor slain are pretty satisfying, although I prefer to stay out of the assassination quest altogether.

Are there differences if you finish this quest before the end of the main story line?

You can't finish this quest after the main storyline because it affects the epilogue.

And what about Ciri? I don't want her to be a Empress but just a free Witcher.

The only way she'll become the Empress is if you took her to Emhyr before you fought Imlerith and Ladies of the Wood AND help Nilfgaardians win the war (both Radovid and Dijkstra are killed).

 

[Westland1940]

Thank you both for the explanation. Summarized, in my opinion, the consequences are not that big, only the decision to choose sides with one of them (Dijkstra or Roche).

Is there not any other impact after the quest? I read that if you let Dijkstra live he would rule over Novigrad and Velen, what about that?

Quoted this from a website with all endings explained: "the former spymaster rules the North through fear and a loss of liberty – but industry prospers.".

and

"If you side with Vernon Roche and Ves at the end of Reason of State, having completed the Assassin questline, Temeria is restored a degree of sovereignty and the war concludes in peace and prosperity."

Is that anything important? If I had to choose now I think I kill Dijkstra, only with the reason I won't let him kill Roche.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Is there not any other impact after the quest?

None whatsoever until you reach the epilogue, also none whatsoever after the epilogue is completed.
Edit: Technically, there are 2 extremely minor references to this quest's outcome in the expansions.

I read that if you let Dijkstra live he would rule over Novigrad and Velen, what about that?

Yes, if you help with the assassination of Radovid and let Dijkstra kill Roche, Ves and Thaler, he'll take control over Redania and defeat Nilfgaard.

"If you side with Vernon Roche and Ves at the end of Reason of State, having completed the Assassin questline, Temeria is restored a degree of sovereignty and the war concludes in peace and prosperity."

If you side with Roche and co, Nilfgaard will win, Temeria will become it's vassal-state and rest of the North will be annexed.

 

[Westland1940]

Final question, will you notice anything when Dijkstra rules over Redania? Same question with Roche if you let him live.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Like I said, there's nothing else during the main story; Witcheress epilogue is set in White Orchard (there are 3 variations of this ending depending on whether Radovid, Dijkstra or Emhyr won the war) and you'll be able to spot the difference between each outcome. After you beat the game, the world will be restored to previous state.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

It goes like so...

1. Radovid Survives = Radovid wins war.
2. Radovid Dies + Djikstra Survives + Roche/Ves Die = Djikstra takes control.
3. Radovid Dies + Roche/Ves Survive + Djikstra Dies = Temeria submits to Nilfgaard, thus Nilfgaard wins the war.

The only influence on the Ciri ending here is whether Nilfgaard wins the war. If they do not do so, Ciri cannot become empress. Even if #3 happens I believe you need to take Ciri to meet the emperor during the Bald Mountain incident. Otherwise she becomes a Witcher or her fate is unknown (dies?, never returns?).

If you don't want the empress ending you can do one of the following...

1. Don't let Nilfgaard win the war.
2. Let Nilfgaard win the war but don't take Ciri to meet the emperor during the Bald Mountain incident.

If you do #1 or #2 the empress ending is gone, as far as I know. This leaves witcher Ciri or unknown Ciri (dies?, doesn't return?). Which one of these you get is based on other choices involving Ciri. The difference here is whether you empower her and allow her to make her own choices, thus boosting her confidence and self-dependence, or decide them for her. If you do the former at every opportunity you'll get the witcher Ciri ending. If you do the latter she never returns after entering the portal to battle the White Frost.

As far as I know the Reason of State quest has no influence beyond the above. Happy hunting .

 

[Westland1940]

Thanks both.

Damn, so if I'm correct, the only way to defeat Nilfgaard (considered the bad guys, right?) is to let Dijkstra live? Is it me or this shit is confusion.

 

[Guest 3847602]

That depends on you, TW3 goes above and beyond to whitewash Nilfgaardians and portray them as the "lesser evil" at best or "good guys" at worst, abandoning consistency with TW2 and the books in this regard and contradicting them.

But, you're right - if you want to stop the witch-hunts and prevent Nilfgaard from absorbing the entire North, Dijkstra is the man you want to win.

 

[Westland1940]

Well, in the case I prefer Dijkstra, but on the otherhand I want to keep Roche a live. According to your quote "In my opinion? Both endings where Nilfgaard get their asses kicked and their Emperor slain are pretty satisfying" you let Dijkstra live, right?

I have asked this question before but I didn't really had an clear answer. If I decide to keep Dijkstra a live, what will I noticed in the world? Does anything change? Does locations change? Different people walking around? That kind of chance, same question for Roche if I let him a live.

Pff this decision gets harder and harder.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Well, in the case I prefer Dijkstra, but on the otherhand I want to keep Roche a live. According to your quote "In my opinion? Both endings where Nilfgaard get their asses kicked and their Emperor slain are pretty satisfying" you let Dijkstra live, right?

The other ending where Nilfgaard lose the war and Emhyr gets stabbed to death is Radovid's victory. In order for him to win you'll have to break Dijkstra's leg when he confronts you after rescuing Philippa from the bathhouse. Or ignore the "Reason of State" quest and let it fail.
This is the only way to avoid getting Roche and Ves murdered, killing Dijkstra and helping Nilfgaard win the war. If you killed Radovid, either Dijkstra or Roche will have to die.
That's what I meant - either Radovid or Dijkstra wins in my playthroughs.

I have asked this question before but I didn't really had an clear answer. If I decide to keep Dijkstra a live, what will I noticed in the world? Does anything change? Does locations change? Different people walking around? That kind of chance, same question for Roche if I let him a live.

Absolutely nothing about the gameworld changes after this quest, no matter what you did. Even after Radovid is assassinated, Redanian soldiers will occupy the same positions as before and keep shouting "Long live Radovid!" from time to time. So, if you are looking for consequences - there are none (until you play the epilogue). Epilogue quest takes place in the smallest area (White Orchard), and this is the only place where you'll see the results of actions. Even then, those changes are only temporary, after the credits are over, gameworld will revert to default state.

 

[Westland1940]

I have broken Dijkstra his leg in my older playthroughs, this time I want to do the Reason of State quest. I rather ignore this quest completely but I haven't done it yet so I have to do it once.

Thanks, I know enough, it's up to me now

Post automatically merged: Aug 13, 2018

Fuck me, this quest was tough (the decision). I couldn't bring myself to choose for Dijkstra, so I saved Roche and killed Dijkstra, although I prefer Dijkstra his plan. On the other hand, Roche saved me several times during the quest itself and Dijkstra lied to us several times. And as a Witcher, Geralt shouldn't really bother with politics so as a Geralt mindset killing Dijkstra is best I think.

In the end, I think this quest is pretty poor written, there is no real 'good' or 'bad' side. I saved Roche but I like'd Dijkstra his plan so I really finished this quest with good feelings. And what an abrupt ending to the amazing character Dijkstra.

 

[Mat.R]

I didn't much care how they dealt with the politics this time. I reloaded a few saves, because I wound up getting involved deeper than I wanted. I liked how white orchard and the nilfgaard general added dimension to Nilfgaard, but Redania was ridiculously evil by comparison. In the end, Ciri became a witcher and the empire retreated.

I think my ng+ she will be empress. I will justify these decisions Geralt would not usually make, by rationalizing, that if Ciri must become empress, he will make a way for her and clear as many obstacles as he can.

 

[Deemonef]

I know it's a RPG and everyone has descide on their own, but the best ending is clearly the ending in which Ciri becomes the empress. This is the best for her and the best for the world.
So, kill Dijkstra in Reasons of State.
Ciri is not free as a witcher... next to the fact that she is no witcher and with this fact the 'job' is really dangerous for her

And yes... the quest is bad wirtten. I like the game but some points are bad. This quest in one of those. But, it is necessary to kill Radovid and get the empress ending

 

[Westland1940]

"Ciri is not free as a witcher...", what I meant is if you keep Ciri a live in the main story, you can consider that as an happy ending, right?

About Reason of State, I killed Dijkstra but I couldn't help it and reloaded a save game just before you meet with the crew in an storage building at the docks. I have to think again what to do... not that I necessary want this but if I'm right there is still a chance to pull out of this quest when you meet the guys in that building at the docks?

And if I decide to kill Roche, will he be missed later on in the story + DLC missions? Are other friends gonna complain that I decide to let Roche killed?

edit: I hadn't seen this ending epilogue about Dijkstra but he looks actually like a good leader after all.

 

[Deemonef]

The thing with this wannabe-Witcher ending is, I try to see in the future, and in the future this end is really not happy. Next to the fact that this job is dangerous for her, she also will still be hunted by Nilfgaard, and this is not what I call free or happy

That's one thing why it is poorly written. Execpt for the credits no one bats an eye on what happened while Reasons of State. if you killed Roche, Dijkstra... even radovid, no one ever will mentions this. The freaking kinf dies and no one bats an eye... this was so lame XD

 

[Guest 3847602]

he also will still be hunted by Nilfgaard, and this is not what I call free or happy

That seems plausible, even likely, but only if they win the war.
If they've been defeated, territory where she's doing her job would not be under their control and it would also mean the person who wanted her found and brought to Nilfgaard is dead as a dodo.

 

[Deemonef]

That seems plausible, even likely, but only if they win the war.
If they've been defeated, territory where she's doing her job would not be under their control and it would also mean the person who wanted her found and brought to Nilfgaard is dead as a dodo.

If Emhyr wins he will search her that's for sure, if Emhyr is defeated the opposition in Nilfgaard that killed the Emperor will also search for Ciri, cause she is the last legitimate offspring of Emhyr.
So in both scenarios they will search/hunt for Ciri.

 

[Mat.R]

Possibly. Would they even put much stock in her though? You can tell Emhyr she's dead, and she would always be ahead of the rumors. She would be the least of their worries after they do take the throne.

The witchwress ending sad in another way, though: the time of monsters is ending. It has virtually ended, in many places. What will she do? Seems lonely and pointless, what with Geralt maybe even retiring. Kaer Morhen abandoned. As empress though, the Continent might see a golden age. She's set up to make a strong and magnanimous ruler, and wise too for all her travels and training. That seems happiest for everybody.

One thing, the sorceresses can't be trusted very far, but Ciri can rein them in. I know they're sympathetic in Witcher 3, but its important to remember magicians and sorceresses are always up to something. They've often set dynasties against each other, and stirred the pot when given an opportunity. Letting them work in the empire, where they think they're guiding Ciri, is maybe for the best. If she has mastered her destiny, they'll never completely control her, and she can use them instead of them use her.

As for Dijkstra becoming king, the way he does is so poorly written, I think it was an afterthought, a way to close Witcher 2's story, and I can't see Geralt going in on an assassination, even if his friends were persecuted. Especially not with Dijkstra, and some guerillas he barely knows. The only motive he could have this time for breaking his code is for Ciri.