Cards without counters in the current form of the game

[Goro123]

So, there are still cards in the game, which in their current form should not exist, that have no counters, like Assire, vicovaro medic, the monster golden ghoul, viper witchers(their current form), Xavier that destroys your graveyard. I wrote about Assire and other cards that interact with the opponent's graveyard since the open beta.

Just for example - the viper witcher have a chance to win every time being played. There are still no mechanics in the game which give an option to do something during your opponent's turn.

Also the new reveal is just random fiesta, random things being revealed, damaging random units,buffing for random points etc.

 

[Stealthy75]

Finally someone who understands how BROKEN Xavier Lemmens is. A 5 Power 7 cost gold that literally shuts down any chance for Skellige Graveyard to have a Round 3 has too much value. Last I checked, a 5 power 7 Cost is a decent Brick play where you simply play the card 0 benefits from effect, why give it the ability to break decks completely.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

I wrote about Assire and other cards that interact with the opponent's graveyard since the open beta.

And without them the graveyard would have no counter at all, which would be a lot worse.

Xavier Lemmen is basically the only card that can counter the SK Beastmasters. Also, while being great against SK, he is a dead card against all other four factions and only 5 points for 7 provision without any synergy. And yes that makes him really binary. You likely win against a SK that heavily uses the graveyard, but you probably loose against every other faction. But he is a counter card so that is ok, because he won't be included in decks unless there is a graveyard overuse to counter.
I think making him a little bit less binary would be good, by making him banish up to 5 cards from the selected graveyard and boost by 1 for each, with 1 base power. That would allow SK players to still have ressing targets if they didn't overcommit, but would give him 1 more point in total.

I don't think Viper Witchers are that bad. As long as they aren't used with milling or the player doesn't use a hyper thin deck like Discard, there would be hardly any difference if the Viper Witchers player placed the card at the bottom. It is a 6 provision card with 4 power and the only synergy is the Witcher tag (Leo and Vesemir). Even with Emhyr into Vesemir they are still a low tempo play and without they are hardly worth it at all.

Also, there are as much counters for those two mentioned cards, as for Scorch. Once multiple set up units have been scorched there is no way to retrieve that game state even with ressurrecting units. This can be avoided by not setting up to many units with the same power (let's ignore Eithne here).
The same for VW and XL. VW require the player to not have too many high provision cards, while the rest are all low provision cards, but instead to have an equal distribution of provision costs, as well as not relying singlely on 1 unit to win the game. Then VW will only be a 4 point unit.
XL can be played around by not keeping all ressurrects until round three and not overcommiting to the graveyard. Also if the player has tools to kill his own units for a benefit he can still ressurrect his units.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Xavier Lemmen is basically the only card that can counter the SK Beastmasters.

I'm not defending Xavier because, well, manipulating the opponents GY has been pretty stupid since forever. I guess it's labelled another "fun" mechanic. I gotta say though, Bearmaster is an equally stupid card.

I don't think Viper Witchers are that bad. As long as they aren't used with milling or the player doesn't use a hyper thin deck like Discard, there would be hardly any difference if the Viper Witchers player placed the card at the bottom. It is a 6 provision card with 4 power and the only synergy is the Witcher tag (Leo and Vesemir). Even with Emhyr into Vesemir they are still a low tempo play and without they are hardly worth it at all.

Hmm, one would think, "reveal a card and banish it", would be the exact opposite theme to, "CCG based on player skill.". VW may not be that bad. The concept behind it is another matter. Come to think of it, the concept behind reveal in general is another matter.

 

[Mr_Mugglez]

Cards that can mess with other peoples decks or graveyard (other than their own) are just wrong.

 

[Dawerick]

Cards that can mess with other peoples decks or graveyard (other than their own) are just wrong.

I think they are awesome and healthy for the game. If they were to remove all that kind of interesting abilities then the game would basically be who can muster a card with best points per provisions ratio.
Interacting with opponents deck and graveyard is an interesting ability which is hard to convert to exact points. Meaning that it's hard to say whether the ability will be worth 1 point or 2 points etc. In Viper Witcher's case it can also backfire; you are effectively thinning the opponent's deck. Risk - Reward.

While I don't approve excessive use of rng abilities, I think it's extremely important for this game to have as many non-direct ways to acquire points as possible.

 

[Shabman]

Pit Trap is currently not counter-able as far as I know. (Thank the heavens for showing ST that grace lol)

 

[Restlessdingo32]

I think they are awesome and healthy for the game. If they were to remove all that kind of interesting abilities then the game would basically be who can muster a card with best points per provisions ratio.
Interacting with opponents deck and graveyard is an interesting ability which is hard to convert to exact points. Meaning that it's hard to say whether the ability will be worth 1 point or 2 points etc. In Viper Witcher's case it can also backfire; you are effectively thinning the opponent's deck. Risk - Reward.

While I don't approve excessive use of rng abilities, I think it's extremely important for this game to have as many non-direct ways to acquire points as possible.

I'd agree unique mechanics are good. Depending on the mechanic they may need to be kept in check, however. You don't need RNG to achieve this goal. You need new, interesting mechanics. GY theft is one of those mechanics where you need restrictions. In that particular case heavy restrictions. Otherwise decks reliant on the GY get completely screwed in certain match-ups. Banishing an entire graveyard is the perfect example of what not to do.

VW is another example where it's effectively a crapshoot. Reveal card, banish card. If card is valuable it's a huge deal. If card is non-valuable it's not helping much. Putting this variability into the hands of RNG has no place in Gwent. Variability on card effects should revolve around the board state. If it's the right state the card gets value. If not, the card doesn't.

Pit Trap is currently not counter-able as far as I know. (Thank the heavens for showing ST that grace lol)

Play a non-valuable card to rule it out. That's the counter. Pitfall can be powerful but getting it to hit something important isn't as simple as putting it on the board. I do think the provision cost is a bit low though.

 

[nedders]

You know what's stupid about HC? Everything.

How can you play artefact after artefact in R3 of a game?? It's bloody stupid. And the matchup system gets it - you NEVER face anyone trying the same deck as you. It matches it like FIFA Seasons, win a couple, ah - here's a counter - lose one. It's deliberate.

Just lost yet again to ST playing NOTHING but artefacts. Even if I had drawn my artefact removal cards, there were so many there's literally nothing else you can do.

It's just BROKEN. The whole game mechanic, that you can throw down a bunch of artefacts without a single unit, is fundamentally shit and stupid.

 

[Dawerick]

You know what's stupid about HC? Everything.

How can you play artefact after artefact in R3 of a game?? It's bloody stupid. And the matchup system gets it - you NEVER face anyone trying the same deck as you. It matches it like FIFA Seasons, win a couple, ah - here's a counter - lose one. It's deliberate.

Just lost yet again to ST playing NOTHING but artefacts. Even if I had drawn my artefact removal cards, there were so many there's literally nothing else you can do.

It's just BROKEN. The whole game mechanic, that you can throw down a bunch of artefacts without a single unit, is fundamentally shit and stupid.

1) Cool story 2) Artifacts are just a means to an end, a player who uses just artifacts doesn't actually generate any points on board so excessive usage of artifacts is actually counterproductive 3) Your matchmaking theory requires some serious tinfoil hats

 

[Scaldar_von_Ascalon]

Cards that can mess with other peoples decks or graveyard (other than their own) are just wrong.

According to this logic they should cut any card from them game what can damage the oponets card because they mess up someones setup...

Post automatically merged: Oct 31, 2018

You know what's stupid about HC? Everything.

How can you play artefact after artefact in R3 of a game?? It's bloody stupid. And the matchup system gets it - you NEVER face anyone trying the same deck as you. It matches it like FIFA Seasons, win a couple, ah - here's a counter - lose one. It's deliberate.

Just lost yet again to ST playing NOTHING but artefacts. Even if I had drawn my artefact removal cards, there were so many there's literally nothing else you can do.

It's just BROKEN. The whole game mechanic, that you can throw down a bunch of artefacts without a single unit, is fundamentally shit and stupid.

Use spyes... and buff them after steel ther buffs or burm'em down. Last round play joachim and say gg..

 

[Mr_Mugglez]

According to this logic they should cut any card from them game what can damage the oponets card because they mess up someones setup...

Post automatically merged: Oct 31, 2018

Yes, that's exactly what I said...Read it again!

NG players suck!

 

[Shabman]

Play a non-valuable card to rule it out. That's the counter. Pitfall can be powerful but getting it to hit something important isn't as simple as putting it on the board. I do think the provision cost is a bit low though.

Ah yes, and passing also works - I forgot. Unlike the bronze traps, you can't trigger it manually.

But anyways, when saved for the last few cards (as I tend to save it), and made to hit a second time with Iorveth afterwards, it usually causes some degree of mayhem.

 

[Goro123]

The problem again is options, we have the illusion that we have more now. but in the end it is the same. Now you can do more things on your turn, but that does not change the outcome. If feel that again it is much stronger to be second, yes the other have 1 extra mulligan and free points, but again the who goes second controls the tempo of the game. He can decide either to push you for even cards(which is pretty much auto lost) and you must always play with him or if you manage to overcome him(he will always play it till the end if he knows that he will take the round 1 card down and secure the last say on round 3) from his point of view is - Fine i will let him have the round, he was suppose to take it anyway. The extra points would have worked in the old Gwent, but not now when you can go to 4 cards and still be ok for the last round. So going second still gives you better options in game without any.

The current situation with the artefacts is another thing that needs to be changed. Maybe they must be factions specific, not all neutrals, like spear goes to faction A, shield to B, potion C, etc. This way at least the cards that destroy artefacts would not be useless, you can not counter 10+ artefacts

 

[Sailears]

I really don't like Eredin on any unit on the same turn, which can be impossible to counter unless very specific scenarios (unless I'm missing something).

I find this more annoying than Eithne decks in some ways.

Either it needs to be restricted to bronzes, or maybe even better is restricting all leaders to only be useable at the beginning of a turn giving the opponent one turn to respond.

 

[Pistol89]

Also the new reveal is just random fiesta, random things being revealed, damaging random units,buffing for random points etc.

I agree, the reveal time is too short and I can't see the revealed card strength or even what it is.
This, combined with the fact the History Panel doesn't show you the effect of played cards (like what card damaged another or what was revealed) means I can't tell what happened in the round.

 

[Xinigami]

I agree, the reveal time is too short and I can't see the revealed card strength or even what it is.
This, combined with the fact the History Panel doesn't show you the effect of played cards (like what card damaged another or what was revealed) means I can't tell what happened in the round.

Yeah, agreed. As a newbie, most of time during reveals I am not able to tell which exact card it was. They should add revealed cards to history panel or at least increase the duration.

 

[ardeathwing]

And without them the graveyard would have no counter at all, which would be a lot worse.

Xavier Lemmen is basically the only card that can counter the SK Beastmasters. Also, while being great against SK, he is a dead card against all other four factions and only 5 points for 7 provision without any synergy. And yes that makes him really binary. You likely win against a SK that heavily uses the graveyard, but you probably loose against every other faction. But he is a counter card so that is ok, because he won't be included in decks unless there is a graveyard overuse to counter.
I think making him a little bit less binary would be good, by making him banish up to 5 cards from the selected graveyard and boost by 1 for each, with 1 base power. That would allow SK players to still have ressing targets if they didn't overcommit, but would give him 1 more point in total.

I don't think Viper Witchers are that bad. As long as they aren't used with milling or the player doesn't use a hyper thin deck like Discard, there would be hardly any difference if the Viper Witchers player placed the card at the bottom. It is a 6 provision card with 4 power and the only synergy is the Witcher tag (Leo and Vesemir). Even with Emhyr into Vesemir they are still a low tempo play and without they are hardly worth it at all.

Also, there are as much counters for those two mentioned cards, as for Scorch. Once multiple set up units have been scorched there is no way to retrieve that game state even with ressurrecting units. This can be avoided by not setting up to many units with the same power (let's ignore Eithne here).
The same for VW and XL. VW require the player to not have too many high provision cards, while the rest are all low provision cards, but instead to have an equal distribution of provision costs, as well as not relying singlely on 1 unit to win the game. Then VW will only be a 4 point unit.
XL can be played around by not keeping all ressurrects until round three and not overcommiting to the graveyard. Also if the player has tools to kill his own units for a benefit he can still ressurrect his units.

Last time I checked, Monster decks could be heavily reliant on graveyard too. So he breaks that too. Not to mention how many golden cards that interact with the graveyard also go in the dumpster thanks to him. It's a broken card regardless of how you put it. His ability should be changed.