And GWENT is uninstalled... sadly

+
Status
Not open for further replies.
name 1 other game that you beta tested a completely different game than 1.0 release?

i know the forums are a very small sample of players, but for every "like" there are 5-6 "dislikes" in the game

people have problems with mechanics
people have problems with the UI
people have problems with the balancing
people have problems with the change in development direction

to me this game no longer feels like Gwent. This feels like Thronebreaker Online....
I don't want to play Thronebreaker Online, and neither do many others.
You see, your points only say that some people have problems with those things. They don't prove that the game itself is bad. There is a big difference between those things.
Might be true. This has less to do with HC and more to do with post Midwinter being a complete mess. As you said earlier, Xavier is highly questionable. Banishing an entire graveyard isn't a mechanic where it's a wait and see approach. A card with such an ability making it past the planning stages is concerning. There are several areas in HC where the same holds true.

I wouldn't say the sky is falling or HC is a terrible product. Despite the fact I personally dislike some of the changes it's a step up from post Midwinter. I still dislike some of the changes. Hand limit being the worst offender. There are other changes I do feel were improvements. Regardless, most of the "bad" boils down to dealing with it and adjusting at this point.
I agree. Maybe, in a few months, I'll decide that the potential I see in HC went the wrong way., as I perceive it. At this point though, I am basing my current opinion on what I see. Or I think I see.
i dont see the potential, Gwent Beta had that but cdpr was too lazy to release monthly balance patches.
You not seeing the potential doesn't mean there is none.
Cd projekt was not correct with betaplayers who invested in the game to have another game.
Beta is just that. Obviously, CDPR decided that old Gwent had no future (and in this case, I agree with them).
Here to give my opinions on HC as a player since closed beta and thousands of hours of playtime (pro ladder every season)

1. Hand limit seems to be a bad addition to game, no longer startegic passes because opponent can just play down to 4 cards (or 7 in r2) and still go to last round on even cards. Dry passing really wasn't/isn't a problem in beta. It always comes with a risk and for creative deck builders gives big advantage when opponent dry passes r1 assuming you play certain deck and then you use something totally else that excels in long rounds.

2. Artifact spamming isn't an issue if hand limit doesn't exist, they can't play multiple artifacts w/o any units if they can't always get full hand even when their opponent passes 30-40 points ahead. Also the fact that you can activate artifacts same turn and buff opponents/damage own units and then just scorch/epidemic/schirru it all away (had a game myself where on last card I just buffed my opponents units to make all 5 of them into 34 power (and opponent could do nothing to block that) and then scorched them all. wonder how my opponent reacted to going from 160+ points up to losing the game in a single turn.. propably quit the game.

3. We get less deck thinning while getting less mulligans w/o blacklisting makes the game way more RNG heavy than OB ever was (including the midwinter create fiasco) Often I lose/win games the moment cards are dealt due to getting great/horrible starting hand.

4. I do like about everything else about HC but these 3 things make the game unplayable for me (for once I feel I'm lucky for being console player and still being able to play the beta)

I will keep on trying the game but everytime I do, I get frustrated with the meta. Sure you can counter artifacts by discarding your cards but that is not very enjoyable gameplay. In beta I was always able to make decks that had some way to beat all "netdecks" in atleast some way (sure some depended on winning coinflip & drawing some excact card but still it was a chance), doesn't feel possible in HC. Running into multiple unwinnable match ups in row is quite frustrating and then switch deck so you're teched against w/e you lost against and lose against all other decks basically. Playing OB on xbox I am having tons of fun even tho meta hasn't shifted much for over 6 months.

Sincerely yours, Rizla for20
Points 1 and 2 are about balancing, not game design. Sorry, hand limit does change the way you play but it's a change in strategic approach. Previously, it essentially boiled down to "did I draw my spy", "did I draw good in r3. So far, this isn't the case. And I think it's a good change.

Point 3 - beta Gwent had too many tutors and too many powerful tutors at that. If you're asking me, 2 bronze card limit caters to more diversity and higher skill ceiling (if balanced correctly).

About beating netdecks. From what I see, people are already beating artifacts and "best" decks from the first few days without losing to other decks. Besides, netdecks are there for a reason, those are usually the most optimised decks. However, at this stage of HC it's rather laughable to talk about meta. It needs time to settle. Probably the best example would be 6 months prior HC. At the beginning, it was GS. It stayed a powerful deck but I made to GM with 4 or 5 different decks during that time. It's because people find ways to adjust and counter. Hence, my point about current "meta".

Again, I'm not saying HC is perfect or will be great regardless. But it has tools to be if not great then very, very good.

-------------

Lastly, if someone says that he doesn't like how Gwent has changed, it's totally fine. We have different tastes. I respect that. But when someone starts shouting "this is a bad game" without providing any argument, I won't listen. It's just not worth listening to. Not at this stage.

Cheers everyone
 
Last edited:
So...Is this balanced? Ofc it is.
Is it Fun? Ofc it isn't.
Is it good game design?

My post was not meant as a blanket statement for all perceived OP (or not-fun) cards. The community can be right in varying decrees. Identifying a problem is usually tricky. Although sometimes it's pretty obvious. Finding a good solution, however, is rarely an easy task.

Some say the Witcher trio is an issue. Are the cards OP? Not really. But the issue lies with everyone using the trio in every deck, which is boring. Is that really a problem? Opinions differ on that matter, never mind finding a solution because giving them +1 provision or -1 strength isn't an original fix either.

As for the artifacts, I agree, as I have mentioned in various threads.
 
Squad then GO back to gwent în witcher 3. The devs worked hard and you cannot show a small gratitude?
How about no [Nope.]. Many of us have been here since the beginning and don't care due the new game we were baited and switched with. I love cdpr but in this case they listened to 0 feedback from the community during patches then says we are going back to gwents roots only to give a different game. I have not given up but won't play again until many cards are redesigned. Gwent was stale but that's because no patches happened for a year. Og gwent only needed a few changes not a rework that isn't gwent.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You see, your points only say that some people have problems with those things. They don't prove that the game itself is bad. There is a big difference between those things.
that's exactly what my post was saying...

it doesn't matter if the game is good or not, it's how people perceive it. It could be the greatest game in the history of all games ever designed, but if people have a problem with it or don't like it... it won't succeed.
 
I knew you'd like it.
This is sad. I'm seeing all the old names and avatars that I've come to know all decide on leaving the game
Post automatically merged:

They must likely will shutdown the game after throne breaker releases on console. They can either bring back the beta and actually balance it or shut down the game. I don't see them reworking it again as hc is broken and boring
 
Last edited:
that's exactly what my post was saying...

it doesn't matter if the game is good or not, it's how people perceive it. It could be the greatest game in the history of all games ever designed, but if people have a problem with it or don't like it... it won't succeed.
Some people. Let's not make sweeping generalisations here.
This is sad. I'm seeing all the old names and avatars that I've come to know all decide on leaving the game
Playing since day one of CB. Not planning to go anytime soon.
They must likely will shutdown the game after throne breaker releases on console. They can either bring back the beta and actually balance it or shut down the game. I don't see them reworking it again as hc is broken and boring
And you know that because you have data to support this claim and you've been private to the CEO meetings at CDPR? Oh, wait...
 
Some people. Let's not make sweeping generalisations here.
And where do you get numbers? I really want to see some statistics on player count atm and preHC and pre Mid winter.. That would be best way of showing which group is correct
 
And where do you get numbers? I really want to see some statistics on player count atm and preHC and pre Mid winter.. That would be best way of showing which group is correct
Just look at how many people are streaming Homecoming. The number is even lower than the last days of the "beta".
 
And where do you get numbers? I really want to see some statistics on player count atm and preHC and pre Mid winter.. That would be best way of showing which group is correct
Lol. Where did you? Of many people I know, only one stopped. But I highly suspect he'll be back.
Besides, you made a claim. It's on you to provide evidence.
Just look at how many people are streaming Homecoming. The number is even lower than the last days of the "beta".
So? Seldom my decision making was affected by someone I do not know and have no reason to follow his decision.
streamers are leaving? but thats good!
Why? To me it's neither. I dare to say that some streamers mask their long ago made decision to leave under half-coherent rants that amount to the usual "I don't like it, therefore it's bad" bs. I wish them the best, they should do what they think is good for them. And I will do the same ,i.e. ignore that.
 
Never thought I'd say this, but I really hate Gwent right now ! Can't believe I quit Hearthstone for this. It was so good in Open Beta, it just needed some ballance changes (looking at you Viper Witchers, Greatswords and Nekkers) and some new cards.
It's not fun at all, it's boring, it's too slow, I hate the new 10 card hand limit, draw 3 cards at the end of each turn, almost no thinning, can't win if you drew bad, no blacklist mulligan.
I like the new board, or should I say battlefield, I like the 3D leaders, effects, and pretty much all the other changes that have nothing to do with gameplay. But the gameplay...oh man...I hate it.
I post this after losing yet again, against Eithne and that Epidemic, Scorch, Schirru, Spear, Sihil bullshit. Can't even remember the last time I won, it's all the same, everyone plays Eithne removal or Woodland Spirit spawn lots of stuff and then boost them with Zoltan and Golden Froth.
This time I even added that _redacted_ of a player, to throw some juicy curses his way, something I would never do, never did it in Closed or Open Beta. Thankfully he did not accept the invite, the swine know what was in store for him.
I'm usually a calm person and don't rage, but this game man... Please, just please fix it as soon as possible, I don't wanna quit Gwent after I invested so much time in it (434 hours) and a bit of money (bought Thronebreaker and a Starter Pack) though where I come from, that's not exactly just a bit.
 
ye thats good, so when a new player will look for some info about this game he will be like " lul ded game no one plays it"
Apart from streamers there's no other place to gather info, right? Also, streamers like Pumpkn, OceanMud, etc. aren't going anywhere and they said so. So...
In other words, you hate the changes. That's ok. Game isn't going to be bad because of that though.
 
Yes, you're right. I was naive and stupid. Lesson learned:
1) never spend money on beta games,
2) CDPR is not better than other devs.

At the end of the day, it's all about money.

About 1, well it's up to everyone to choose to or not to.

About 2 though, are you kidding? CDPR >>> most publishers and devs, EA, Activision, Ubisoft, you name it. In terms of customer support and quality product delivery, you have to live in a cave not to admit that at least.
 
In other words, you hate the changes. That's ok. Game isn't going to be bad because of that though.

I don't really hate all the changes, I hate the cards, their abilities, some of them are broken and players abuse it, it sucks the fun out of the game, you can't deny that, unless you don't even play, or you are absurdly lucky and don't have to play against Eithne 6 or more times in a row and lose, even though you teched against that deck as hard as you could.
I went as far as making an Usurper deck with 8 artifact removal cards in it, it works pretty good against Eithne, but it's bad against pretty much everything else, unless they are running lots of artifacts that are crucial to their strategy. You think playing like this is fun ?
 
I don't really hate all the changes, I hate the cards, their abilities, some of them are broken and players abuse it, it sucks the fun out of the game, you can't deny that, unless you don't even play, or you are absurdly lucky and don't have to play against Eithne 6 or more times in a row and lose, even though you teched against that deck as hard as you could.
I went as far as making an Usurper deck with 8 artifact removal cards in it, it works pretty good against Eithne, but it's bad against pretty much everything else, unless they are running lots of artifacts that are crucial to their strategy. You think playing like this is fun ?
Eithne deck is countered already, so are any artifact decks. Without sacrificing other matchups. I find it funny that people instantly forget the decks they were complaining before. Remember 10 matches vs GS? About broken cards, you didn't expect balanced game right away, did you? Because the things you listed have nothing to do with game design but with balancing. As for abilities, they're much better than slam points, tutor, deploy deal damage/buff, draw your spy and draw your insane finisher in r3. Rinse and repeat. Thank you, I won't miss that.
 
About 1, well it's up to everyone to choose to or not to.

About 2 though, are you kidding? CDPR >>> most publishers and devs, EA, Activision, Ubisoft, you name it. In terms of customer support and quality product delivery, you have to live in a cave not to admit that at least.
No, I'm not kidding. In my opinion CDPR is not better than any other devs. You don't have to agree with me and I respect that.
And I don't think you live in a cave just because you don't like what I said.

Edit:
And as for the customer support and quality product delivery - after HC release I faced a problem with my in-game account. 10 days past since October 23, I asked support for help 4 times and the issue still persists. So the support and product quality is not as good as you think it is.
 
Last edited:
You see, your points only say that some people have problems with those things. They don't prove that the game itself is bad. There is a big difference between those things.

You not seeing the potential doesn't mean there is none.

Points 1 and 2 are about balancing, not game design. Sorry, hand limit does change the way you play but it's a change in strategic approach. Previously, it essentially boiled down to "did I draw my spy", "did I draw good in r3. So far, this isn't the case. And I think it's a good change.

You seem to be pedantic with the word some his points are still valid he doesn't expand on it because it would be one long post and it's been mentioned before plenty of times, which players who are defending HC ''Gwent'' conveniently forget or don't address. Whereas some or even the word fewer is more apt for players defending HC ''Gwent''. Judging by the posts on here and reddit and the overall impression I get for the reception of ''HC'' alongside with the concerns of some pro players not mentioning those who have left already, I feel more rather than some players feel that the game no longer resembles Gwent that they played/tested in beta. More things have been stripped than added some of the things that have been ''readded'' were in some form or shape in the beta before anyway.

I'll give an example; Gold immunity was removed on the basis that it is uninteractive gameplay despite having some cards that would interact with them [Shackles+more] and the fact that you only had a cap of 4 Golds in the deck. Now instead of creating more cards to interact with Gold cards they went ahead and removed the Gold immunity all together on the basis of freeing up design space. Fast forward to HC ''Gwent'' you now have Artifacts that can't be interacted with unless you place the few cards in your deck that do interact with them, you also have cards that have the tag ''immune'' [essentially gold immunity] that you can't interact with of which neither have a 4 limit cap for inclusion. The cards you've included for Artifact removal will literally be useless facing a deck that does not play Artifacts. Where as before your shackles could still see play because every deck would include golds it's not the case here however. It's as Binary as the 2 row system that some players gush over that it has meaning. Now It's hard even if I were a CDPR fanboy to defend this nonsense.

The other example I can give is that of the 2 rows rather than 3 rows sytem which I touched upon above.. enough with this farce. We now have 2 rows that supposedly have meaning.. It shouldn't be difficult for even newcomers to the game to see that the supposed meaning of the rows is very binary. If I place Swordmaster on the Melee Row she get's her effect if I place her on the Ranged row she has no effect, this isn't very engaging or meaningful in the slightest. I also can not see so far what they did with 2 rows that they could not do with 3 rows. It is as clear as day that they have a mobile version in the pipeline of which is why the game was systematically simplified and stripped of it's core mechanics.

Those two points are in line with game design which ultimately affects balance, Hand limit is essentially a game design that supposedly tried to ''balance'' stop you from drypassing to gain card advantage. However it's not the best solution or even a good solution to a problem that wasn't even an issue in closed beta. In CB you had other ways of obtaining card advantage, so wether you lost or won the coin flip it didn't matter as much.

Ui; This is more prefence than anything else if you were to argue about it but if I were to create a game I would defineitely take the feedback of the players who were to play it. Things as simple as making the ground/dirt [Board] brighter for players to see what they're doing, I personally feel the tavern board style of Beta gwent looked more clean and less cluttered which I prefered amongst other reasons such as how the game was intended to be played lorewise. Alot of players also don't find the 3D cheerleaders on the ground fitting as they seem cartoony and don't fit with the witcher vibe, they'd belong in something like Hearthstone though. The game also feels slow and clunky with the animations and cards being dropped rather than placed. I feel this is shared with alot of players not just a few but I could be wrong.

The key point here though is that alot of changes were not asked for and were implemented anyway whilst removing the core mechanics. They kept doing doing this update after update. They removed Gold immunity, Factions Passives, made most units Agile if not all, 3rd row removal, 3 Bronzes down to 2, Silvers being removed. Weather was bad In CB yes but in HC it feels like an afterthought. Then there's the cards themselves being once again changed for the most basic bland iterations of themselves that lack flavour in favour of mostly Damage/Boost/Ping abilities. Archtypes being blurred or nonexistent, before you had atleast 2-3 for each faction now it feels like you're playing Arena in Ladder which the 2 bronzes cap and provision system reinforces. It's more like did I draw my high provision cards, no okay I'll play down to 7 or 4 pass then redraw a full hand of which hopefully I do draw my higher provision cards. The lucky players who do draw good gets to save his mulligan's isn't that great for the player who doesn't.. kappa. When you do draw your high cost cards players play down to 7 or 4 cards anyway and you can mention the exceptions but I'm stating for the most part. Want the last say play down to 4 and drypass round 2 with a full hand in round 3. Card advantage is less of a thing so rounds feel forced.

I mean the provisions system makes it easier to balance superficially by tweaking numbers but the game feels like a shell of itself with the potential of better balance for a simplified game. Of which so far even the balance aspect of it isn't even it's highlight.

I can touch upon more but this post is already a book and I apologise.
 
Eithne is countered already ? Pray tell, how do you counter it without sacrificing other matchups ?
And no I didn't forget about Greatswords or other decks, I teched against them, and it worked nicely without sacrificing much. I had a reveal NG deck that if I drew well I obliterated Greatswords, Nekkers and Sabbath, they gave up on the first round most of the time, only Alchemy and Spellatel defeated that deck nearly every time, but had good matchups against pretty much everything else. It was fun, I would play Adda meme deck from time to time and win with that as well, the game was more balanced, faster, more fun, right now it is not, feels like a chore to play. I want it to be good, but I want it to be good now, or in the very near future, not after 2 or 3 months or more, when everybody stopped playing and giving a damn.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom