Kambi - what's the point?

[nedders]

To be fair, there is ample play around ability. If you see your valuable cards on the far right and suspect Kambi you need to take steps to fix it. Obviously you cannot re-order your cards but you can leave less valuable cards on the far right intentionally (don't play them). Your card draws come in on the right side of the hand. So, short of having a valuable card come in as your last pull Kambi isn't killing it. Even then it's probably only going to come up R3, as playing Kambi R1-R2 is a RNG crapshoot. Finisher play around is easy, play it 1 card earlier.

None of this means Kambi is fine. It's a stupid card. It's always been a stupid card (yes, even the wipe the board version... stupid card). Not because of balance reasons. These "fun" mechanics like VW, Spotter, Kambi, Xavier, Isbel, etc. are not fun. They're annoying. Most have play around ability. They're still annoying.

No offense by the way. If you're deck is built with only one card, and one card only, to take R3.... You better guarantee you can draw it. Otherwise build a more better deck.

None taken, healthy discussion and you're offering tips.

Just to be clear, it's not like I have ONE deck and throw the toys out the pram when it doesn't work!!! I was using this example when desperately trying to make the game even remotely enjoyable, but the unhappy realisation is that many cards that would typically form the centre of your strategy can be wiped out by crappy cards, crappy plays or - worst of all - random effects. I was looking at the dragon thinking - you'd need to build quite a lot of spells/artefacts in, as you can't afford to have more units. Makes sense, right? Problem then is if the dragon's wiped out, you ain't left with much! So I thought about getting Sihil into it, plus Caretaker, which to my mind - and I'm not a pro - makes sense. Bomb Heaver, Kambi, Xavier Lemons and I've lost, utterly and without any options. Scrap the deck, try again. Fail. Fail. Give up.

Everything seems to be about destroying your gameplan, not seeing whose synergy is better, who can respond well to patterns or who can maneuver better. That's why the game is such a complete disastrous mess.

The rest of the random is just broke af. The fact the mangonel can hit you twice is clearly going to be corrected, because it's a mistake. Spotter pulling a 13 card is a mistake, it's a 4 prov card. Xavier kills some decks instantly, which is surely a mistake, as well as Caretaker and a leader.....but if you're not playing those decks it's a brick. 7 prov is fine, but it should almost just be a 'spell'. All of it just looks like mistakes you get in Beta.....which we were in. We left Beta testing, killed a game, and are now Beta testing something else! It's madness, hence why it's uninstalled.

(nb. I keep on the forum in the vain hope CDPR come to their senses or offer an explanation......still nuthin'....)

 

[ardeathwing]

None taken, healthy discussion and you're offering tips.

Just to be clear, it's not like I have ONE deck and throw the toys out the pram when it doesn't work!!! I was using this example when desperately trying to make the game even remotely enjoyable, but the unhappy realisation is that many cards that would typically form the centre of your strategy can be wiped out by crappy cards, crappy plays or - worst of all - random effects. I was looking at the dragon thinking - you'd need to build quite a lot of spells/artefacts in, as you can't afford to have more units. Makes sense, right? Problem then is if the dragon's wiped out, you ain't left with much! So I thought about getting Sihil into it, plus Caretaker, which to my mind - and I'm not a pro - makes sense. Bomb Heaver, Kambi, Xavier Lemons and I've lost, utterly and without any options. Scrap the deck, try again. Fail. Fail. Give up.

Everything seems to be about destroying your gameplan, not seeing whose synergy is better, who can respond well to patterns or who can maneuver better. That's why the game is such a complete disastrous mess.

The rest of the random is just broke af. The fact the mangonel can hit you twice is clearly going to be corrected, because it's a mistake. Spotter pulling a 13 card is a mistake, it's a 4 prov card. Xavier kills some decks instantly, which is surely a mistake, as well as Caretaker and a leader.....but if you're not playing those decks it's a brick. 7 prov is fine, but it should almost just be a 'spell'. All of it just looks like mistakes you get in Beta.....which we were in. We left Beta testing, killed a game, and are now Beta testing something else! It's madness, hence why it's uninstalled.

(nb. I keep on the forum in the vain hope CDPR come to their senses or offer an explanation......still nuthin'....)

Don't wait for an explanation mate, you won't get one . I'm purely a homecoming player, haven't played old gwent, but I have over 300 games in homecoming and a decent rank so I feel I'm able to give constructive balance feedback.
I have no idea how it was before but right now there is a crapton of RNG in the game. You can win by lucky ability or lose likewise, you can get a perfect hand, or waste 5 mulligans and still have shit of a hand.
The right way to build a deck at the moment is not to try to counter-play all of the imbalanced and game ruining cards in the game at the moment, because there are way too many. Forget that and just build a robust deck that can survive without key cards in it. You will be losing a lot but the end goal is to have more wins than losses to progress and that is kind of possible. Is it fun though? - well it feels more like playing with statistics than fun, but it could be improved in the future.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Everything seems to be about destroying your gameplan, not seeing whose synergy is better, who can respond well to patterns or who can maneuver better. That's why the game is such a complete disastrous mess.

I'd disagree there is no maneuvering or planning. I've seen some pretty clever maneuvering in games at points. Either based on the cards people sneak into their deck or the plays they make in the game.

Yeah, I'd agree there is a lot of unit slaughter going on right now. Thing is this is the nature of control decks. The strategy in control decks is to upset the strategy of the other player. The only issue right now with control is it might be a bit too easy to do that. On the other hand, engine/positive board type decks are equally ridiculous in many cases if they can execute their game plan. It might be a bit too easy for those decks to snowball a game if their plan works or isn't upset.

The rest of the random is just broke af. The fact the mangonel can hit you twice is clearly going to be corrected, because it's a mistake. Spotter pulling a 13 card is a mistake, it's a 4 prov card. Xavier kills some decks instantly, which is surely a mistake, as well as Caretaker and a leader.....but if you're not playing those decks it's a brick. 7 prov is fine, but it should almost just be a 'spell'. All of it just looks like mistakes you get in Beta.....which we were in. We left Beta testing, killed a game, and are now Beta testing something else! It's madness, hence why it's uninstalled.

Well, Reveal is just over-tuned. By that I mean it feels like most reveal cards/synergies get more than they should when they hit optimal reveals. It gets frustrating quick when they nail every single one in a game and those free points determine the outcome.

Spotters are irritating but I'm actually surprised people play them much (one of the reveal cards I think is just bad design... the rest are arguably as well but mostly just over-tuned).

 

[nedders]

I'd disagree there is no maneuvering or planning. I've seen some pretty clever maneuvering in games at points. Either based on the cards people sneak into their deck or the plays they make in the game.

Yeah, I'd agree there is a lot of unit slaughter going on right now. Thing is this is the nature of control decks. The strategy in control decks is to upset the strategy of the other player. The only issue right now with control is it might be a bit too easy to do that. On the other hand, engine/positive board type decks are equally ridiculous in many cases if they can execute their game plan. It might be a bit too easy for those decks to snowball a game if their plan works or isn't upset.



Well, Reveal is just over-tuned. By that I mean it feels like most reveal cards/synergies get more than they should when they hit optimal reveals. It gets frustrating quick when they nail every single one in a game and those free points determine the outcome.

Spotters are irritating but I'm actually surprised people play them much (one of the reveal cards I think is just bad design... the rest are arguably as well but mostly just over-tuned).

Understand the point about maneuvering; but the issue I have with the game is there's very little you can actually do about it, unless you're ALSO playing a control deck. Nothing more depressing than seeing Foltest Pride turn up and realise the 8 lock units you picked for your prison hand are all still in the deck!!!! There's just too much of that, you can effectively win before the game gets going. Very few card games should be like that; Gwent Beta almost always came down to the last card, hence why clever CA plays were such an advantage. It's incredible when you think that was the case with Beta - last card plays would/could swing it - yet they just smashed it to smithereens and replaced it with a game whereby you win or lose based on your deal.

I still cry fix on matchmaking - the dragon example, tried it and every time the oppo had a control-counter. Switched to an Eredin deck, with obvious benefits, yet the first oppo had Usurper!!! Lost again.

Post automatically merged: Nov 15, 2018

I'd disagree there is no maneuvering or planning. I've seen some pretty clever maneuvering in games at points. Either based on the cards people sneak into their deck or the plays they make in the game.

Yeah, I'd agree there is a lot of unit slaughter going on right now. Thing is this is the nature of control decks. The strategy in control decks is to upset the strategy of the other player. The only issue right now with control is it might be a bit too easy to do that. On the other hand, engine/positive board type decks are equally ridiculous in many cases if they can execute their game plan. It might be a bit too easy for those decks to snowball a game if their plan works or isn't upset.



Well, Reveal is just over-tuned. By that I mean it feels like most reveal cards/synergies get more than they should when they hit optimal reveals. It gets frustrating quick when they nail every single one in a game and those free points determine the outcome.

Spotters are irritating but I'm actually surprised people play them much (one of the reveal cards I think is just bad design... the rest are arguably as well but mostly just over-tuned).

There always has been some random, but it's been much more subdued and more like "randomly reveal units in the hand" not randomly destroy the most expensive gold card you have with a viper witcher!! Hilarious, in fact, that VW's - which were broken af in Gwent Beta - are still a pain in the ass and OP in Thronebreaker online.

Shupe was random, to a point, but mostly a good random and that was the point of the card. The random in HC is just awful. As has been said, it clearly stacks in favour of those playing it - why else would there be so many NG reveal decks in ranked? Broken.

 

[Esmer]

To be fair, there is ample play around ability. If you see your valuable cards on the far right and suspect Kambi you need to take steps to fix it.

Oh, really? With 5 maximum mulligans (less for many leaders) you need to waste them to mulligan away your good cards just because your SK opponents might play Kambi?

This is exactly why this card is so OP. I won games by discarding Schirru with Kambi and lost games because I was unfortunate enough to have Gigni as my rightmost card.

Kambi will still be really strong if you let your opponent choose which card to discard. In its current state it's atrocious.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Understand the point about maneuvering; but the issue I have with the game is there's very little you can actually do about it, unless you're ALSO playing a control deck. Nothing more depressing than seeing Foltest Pride turn up and realise the 8 lock units you picked for your prison hand are all still in the deck!!!! There's just too much of that, you can effectively win before the game gets going. Very few card games should be like that; Gwent Beta almost always came down to the last card, hence why clever CA plays were such an advantage. It's incredible when you think that was the case with Beta - last card plays would/could swing it - yet they just smashed it to smithereens and replaced it with a game whereby you win or lose based on your deal.

Fun fact about Foltest Pride... It's melee only .

I've been outmaneuvered by non-control decks, by the way. Playing as control. It's much more difficult to control someone when they know what cards you have because they've either played the same concept or seen it enough. It does become a cat and mouse game to get the control lined up properly while the other side is trying to sabotage it.

I do miss clever CA plays. It's difficult to orchestrate them due to hand limit + 3 card draws. Oddly enough hand limit + 3 card draws also lets mill decks brick your cards or have CA magically appear from nowhere. Particularly because they can inexplicably continue playing them and drawing you cards after a pass. Talk about an oversight....

Oh, really? With 5 maximum mulligans (less for many leaders) you need to waste them to mulligan away your good cards just because your SK opponents might play Kambi?

This is exactly why this card is so OP. I won games by discarding Schirru with Kambi and lost games because I was unfortunate enough to have Gigni as my rightmost card.

Kambi will still be really strong if you let your opponent choose which card to discard. In its current state it's atrocious.

I mean, how often do people play Kambi before R3? I don't think I've ever seen it played R1. They're rolling the dice by playing the card to begin with. I'm not defending Kambi anyway. We're in agreement it's a stupid card. I'm saying at least there is play around ability. It's kind of like Xavier. Questionable design but at least there are ways to play around it if you suspect the opponent has it.

 

[Esmer]

I mean, how often do people play Kambi before R3? I don't think I've ever seen it played R1. They're rolling the dice by playing the card to begin with. I'm not defending Kambi anyway. We're in agreement it's a stupid card. I'm saying at least there is play around ability. It's kind of like Xavier. Questionable design but at least there are ways to play around it if you suspect the opponent has it.

Of course there's a play around ability: waste your mulligans to throw away your good card if it happens to be in the rightmost position. Then restrict yourself to not playing your rightmost shitty unit, because otherwise you open yourself to Kambi.

Moreover, how can you play around Kambi when you go first and opponent lets you win R1 with 5+ cards? If you play a card in R2, you lose CA to Kambi. If you don't, you might burn one of your good cards.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Of course there's a play around ability: waste your mulligans to throw away your good card if it happens to be in the rightmost position. Then restrict yourself to not playing your rightmost shitty unit, because otherwise you open yourself to Kambi..

I never said it was good play around ability . We're ultimately in agreement.

Moreover, how can you play around Kambi when you go first and opponent lets you win R1 with 5+ cards? If you play a card in R2, you lose CA to Kambi. If you don't, you might burn one of your good cards.

But, but, but... tactical advantage, the extra mulligan, hand limit and 3 card draws fixed the coin flip. Didn't it? Yeah, you might lose CA if you play a card. Kambi is a tiny, itty bitty 4 pt card though. If you lost R1 down a card, because coin flip is no longer a problem, and play into R2 you may concede CA to Kambi. He/she also might hit a dud by playing it. You could also make your first card play a big boy card and find a way to recoup lost CA over the itty bitty Kambi.

I find it works surprisingly well to bleed SK R2 in many match-ups anyway (depends on your leader and hand, obviously). If only because most of the popular SK decks have really strong long rounds. Most of those strong long rounds are predicated on strong gold cards or synergies with strong gold cards. Their bronze cards, on the other hand, are often rather weak. Particularly if it's a short round. Especially if they're running the free Mastercrafted Spear leader (Crach is pretty good in long rounds).

 

[nedders]

I never said it was good play around ability . We're ultimately in agreement.



But, but, but... tactical advantage, the extra mulligan, hand limit and 3 card draws fixed the coin flip. Didn't it? Yeah, you might lose CA if you play a card. Kambi is a tiny, itty bitty 4 pt card though. If you lost R1 down a card, because coin flip is no longer a problem, and play into R2 you may concede CA to Kambi. He/she also might hit a dud by playing it. You could also make your first card play a big boy card and find a way to recoup lost CA over the itty bitty Kambi.

I find it works surprisingly well to bleed SK R2 in many match-ups anyway (depends on your leader and hand, obviously). If only because most of the popular SK decks have really strong long rounds. Most of those strong long rounds are predicated on strong gold cards or synergies with strong gold cards. Their bronze cards, on the other hand, are often rather weak. Particularly if it's a short round. Especially if they're running the free Mastercrafted Spear leader (Crach is pretty good in long rounds).

But you can only bleed if you win R1 on even cards, or am I missing something?

 

[Restlessdingo32]

But you can only bleed if you win R1 on even cards, or am I missing something?

Why would that be the case? You can bleed down a card. It's just extremely risky. If you play bigger cards you can potentially force a 2 for 1 and get it back. You could carry CA cards and use them to leverage R2 CA. Assuming you took R1 anyway. I'm not saying CA is irrelevant. I'm not saying to always bleed either. In specific MU's or vs specific decks. I do think there are cases where it's probably the right play. It depends heavily on your leader, hand, the match-up and what was and wasn't played yet though.

Bleeding can be beneficial even if you don't get the card back. Forcing out key, high value cards in a round you don't need to win can be quite valuable. Particularly because some high value cards are easily worth 2-3 "normal" cards if they get optimal value. Big/tall MS type decks are the most obvious example of a build where it's often beneficial. Primarily because they can bomb a board with points in 3-4 cards.

 

[Esmer]

But, but, but... tactical advantage, the extra mulligan, hand limit and 3 card draws fixed the coin flip. Didn't it? Yeah, you might lose CA if you play a card. Kambi is a tiny, itty bitty 4 pt card though. If you lost R1 down a card, because coin flip is no longer a problem, and play into R2 you may concede CA to Kambi. He/she also might hit a dud by playing it. You could also make your first card play a big boy card and find a way to recoup lost CA over the itty bitty Kambi.

Kambi is rarely a 4 points play since it can discard Morkvarg or a skirmisher.
And losing coin flip (going first) is still a problem that makes cards like Kambi better.

But yeah, tactical advantage, lack of CA spies and an extra mulligan totally fixed the coin flip, how could I forget! I JUST LOVE going first now, makes losing R1 on even cards so much better than ever before!

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Kambi is rarely a 4 points play since it can discard Morkvarg or a skirmisher.

Not sure I've actually seen Mork get tossed with Kambi. Perhaps I haven't seen enough Kambi. If they're going to toss a Skirmisher it's 6 pts... So a successful Ciri. The one time I got completely screwed by Kambi it was vs a Lippy deck. At the time I had Xavier in my deck because I was seeing the same Lippy deck, for whatever reason. So, yeah, he got completely screwed right back. Not that this type of game play is necessarily fine. Truth be told it felt kind of dirty to do it.

And losing coin flip (going first) is still a problem that makes cards like Kambi better.

But yeah, tactical advantage, lack of CA spies and an extra mulligan totally fixed the coin flip, how could I forget! I JUST LOVE going first now, makes losing R1 on even cards so much better than ever before!

Yup. Hence the sarcasm. At first glance coin flip may appear "fixed". Then you realize how many decks snowball R3 with last say and the fact taking R1 on blue can be rather difficult.