Lessons learnt from Red Dead Redemption 2 applied to CP77

[animalfather]

I wanted a more cohesive main storyline, i also wanted the game to be about a group of men robbing, killing, "sexing", instead what we got was you babysitting a community of women, child, and old folks. not what i signed up for. and non of the marketing reflected that.

 

[Rawls]

I wanted a more cohesive main storyline, i also wanted the game to be about a group of men robbing, killing, "sexing", instead what we got was you babysitting a community of women, child, and old folks. not what i signed up for. and non of the marketing reflected that.

Well ... there is a lot of men robbing and killing involved in the "babysitting." So that a plus for you I suppose. I actually wish there had been ways to get through the story with less violence personally, but maybe I'm just getting old.

EDIT: Also, as far as the mislabeling of the game ... Redemption is in the title. That's a pretty big indicator that the game doesn't lean towards making the player character a complete evil-doer. You CAN play it that way, but ultimately it's intended to be a story of redemption.

 

[EngryEngineer]

Well ... there is a lot of men robbing and killing involved in the "babysitting." So that a plus for you I suppose. I actually wish there had been ways to get through the story with less violence personally, but maybe I'm just getting old.

EDIT: Also, as far as the mislabeling of the game ... Redemption is in the title. That's a pretty big indicator that the game doesn't lean towards making the player character a complete evil-doer. You CAN play it that way, but ultimately it's intended to be a story of redemption.

I agree with this. For me the most jarring aspect of the story was how frequent the sentiment of "we reject 'civilization' because it is barbaric and we have the formula for a free utopia" was immediately followed by "take everything and burn it all down," but then sometimes things are meant to be jarring.

Aside from that, the actual "wild west" was full of women running towns, banditing, bounty hunting, etc, same goes for nearly every other minority. The smaller talent pool all but mandated that the classes of civil society be largely discarded in favor of meritocracy (where merit is actual personal aptitude, not externally recognized success like we tend to refer to when discussing meritocracies). Early west it was a little more contentious, but by the time RDR2 happens, most of the historical criticisms we see aren't coming from the frontier anymore.

Sometimes it takes a village...to reject the idea of settling in organized villages...

 

[animalfather]

Well ... there is a lot of men robbing and killing involved in the "babysitting." So that a plus for you I suppose. I actually wish there had been ways to get through the story with less violence personally, but maybe I'm just getting old.

EDIT: Also, as far as the mislabeling of the game ... Redemption is in the title. That's a pretty big indicator that the game doesn't lean towards making the player character a complete evil-doer. You CAN play it that way, but ultimately it's intended to be a story of redemption.

just give me one chapter in the beginning when its just you and a bunch of outlaws raising havoc and i would have been happy.

 

[Snowflakez]

Raises hand. I liked my cowboy simulator.

Also in regards to the OP, I actually thought the quest pacing was pretty good. The fishing trip quest being referred to occurred immediately after escaping from the law in a moment of peace IIRC. In open world games there are always a few quests that you want to do as the player, that one probably wouldn't do as the character. Does that create a sort of cognitive dissonance? Yes. But several of my favorite RPGs suffer from the same thing.

I do think a lesson to be learned here, is creating slow paced points every so often in the story where the next step in the main quest doesn't feel urgent. This allows for some dissonance free side-questing. Brothers in Arms was a moment in TW3 that kinda felt like that (despite Avallach's encouragement to hurry).

Ditto on the quest pacing.

Do you remember Through Time And Space in TW3? Another great example of excellent pacing.

Also, now I have a Christmas-y avatar too, so screw you guys.

Well ... there is a lot of men robbing and killing involved in the "babysitting." So that a plus for you I suppose. I actually wish there had been ways to get through the story with less violence personally, but maybe I'm just getting old.

EDIT: Also, as far as the mislabeling of the game ... Redemption is in the title. That's a pretty big indicator that the game doesn't lean towards making the player character a complete evil-doer. You CAN play it that way, but ultimately it's intended to be a story of redemption.

Its not just you. I'm nowhere near as old as you, and I feel the same way.

Also, the first RDR had the same general feel. Not with the babysitting (I reject that word wholeheartedly, since that's not what you're doing in the game), but the redemption; the trying to do good.

just give me one chapter in the beginning when its just you and a bunch of outlaws raising havoc and i would have been happy.

I understand and respect that, but remember, GTA exists. Rockstar is trying to appeal to a different audience here. Same as they did with L.A. Noire. Not every Rockstar game has to be about causing mass havoc.

 

[Rawls]

Also, now I have a Christmas-y avatar too, so screw you guys.

Also, the first RDR had the same general feel. Not with the babysitting (I reject that word wholeheartedly, since that's not what you're doing in the game), but the redemption; the trying to do good.

Yeah, it's like kinda the point of the game.

 

[BaalNergal]

I agree with this. For me the most jarring aspect of the story was how frequent the sentiment of "we reject 'civilization' because it is barbaric and we have the formula for a free utopia" was immediately followed by "take everything and burn it all down," but then sometimes things are meant to be jarring.

This happened a lot, and still happens, in real life. Usually "I have a formula for a free utopia" is immediately followed by "but we kinda need to destroy the civilization currently sitting in the way."

Yeah, it's like kinda the point of the game.

I kinda wonder what people were expecting after the first one. RDR isn't Square-Enix, where a final fantasy will last for 16 + iterations.

 

[Snowflakez]

I agree with this. For me the most jarring aspect of the story was how frequent the sentiment of "we reject 'civilization' because it is barbaric and we have the formula for a free utopia" was immediately followed by "take everything and burn it all down," but then sometimes things are meant to be jarring.

This was intentional -

Spoiler: RDR2 SPOILERS

Dutch is an unreliable leader. He talks big about making a new utopia, and gets everyone to go along with it, only to dash those hopes time and time again.

 

[EngryEngineer]

This was intentional -

Spoiler: RDR2 SPOILERS

Dutch is an unreliable leader. He talks big about making a new utopia, and gets everyone to go along with it, only to dash those hopes time and time again.

Yeah I know, figured I’d just allude to that by saying that sometimes jarring is intentional instead of throwing out spoilers like a big Spoily McJerkface. Meh it seems like it’s just Baal who hasn’t played so that’s fine.

 

[Snowflakez]

Yeah I know, figured I’d just allude to that by saying that sometimes jarring is intentional instead of throwing out spoilers like a big Spoily McJerkface. Meh it seems like it’s just Baal who hasn’t played so that’s fine.

Oh, oopsie. I totally misread your post. Apologies.

 

[Rawls]

Spoiler tags added.

 

[Guest 4211861]

I don't like RDR2, it's a boring cash-grab. I hope CDPR does their own thing instead.

 

[Snowflakez]

I don't like RDR2, it's a boring cash-grab. I hope CDPR does their own thing instead.

...Wat?

Red Dead Online, perhaps. But the base game of RDR2 is nowhere near a cash grab. Objectively, even. You don't even have to think it's good, that's fine. But a cash grab is a game you crap out in one or two years, with very little in the way of risks, creativity, or details.

The CoD games, for example.

 

[Sardukhar]

I don't like RDR2, it's a boring cash-grab. I hope CDPR does their own thing instead.

Are you trolling? Because RDR2 single player ( the bit under discussion here) has no cash grab elements. If you are trolling, stop.

 

[animalfather]

The game was in development for 8 years. infact Rockstar San Diego formerly known as Angel Studios have been making Red Dead games since 2000, thats 3 games in 18years. so no cash grab is not their business.

 

[helios969]

You may know what you wants to do with your character, that doesn't means you'll have access to that from start, and if that takes too short it may hinder any satisfaction from it.

To speak about C2077 we know that V is a mercenary and that it is set in stone, but we also know that V have other interest depending on his childhood hero. What that means is that I'll propably spend more of my game time trying to pursue my childhood dream career than actually taking mercenary jobs which are only there for daily expenses.

Well I think RPing requires a certain amount of adaptability, but if I have a clear psychology behind my character it doesn't matter if V is a mercenary or a fisherman. To me the voice is the critical component to immersion...if I'm RPing V as an aggressive type A or compassionate individual I'd like the deliver of those lines by the VO to be differentiated. Few RPing games have managed to accomplish this with voiced protagonists. I'm willing to live with some restrictions if it means being able to respond in a consistent manner.

 

[Mevik1023]

Rockstar games seem like they're built to lose focus on the main plot. I think that has a lot to do with the fact that R* appeals to both hardcore and casual gamers. People who play Nier: Automata or God of War played RDR2. People who only play Madden and Fortnite still played RDR2. So more casual gamers get to play in the western sandbox while fans of the narrative know how to balance main/side quests.

For 2077, I agree and hope CDPR uses their own example. Witcher 3 had the best pacing I'd seen in any game by optimally scaling the level requirements. If you stick to the level requirement script, you ended up doing a main quest, a few sides, maybe a couple of contracts, then back to the mains. I always felt as if I was experiencing the game exactly as they intended, while still having room to pursue whatever I want. If 2077 just does that again, especially with a more detailed open world, I'm in for all of it.

 

[animalfather]

One of the problems that R2 had was that the main quest didn't feel very cohesive. You did a string of quests that felt very isolated from another and never lead anywhere. Of course that fit the overall theme of the game that Dutch's gang didn't know what they were doing , but sad part is that YOU as a gamer also didn't know what you were doing and felt cheated of out a great story.

A cohesive main story line is a must! You do quest X and your choices and actions affect quest Y which then affect quest Z and so on a cohesive string of quests that are all narratively bound. In R2 it was just do Quest X and then do Quest X nothing bound the quests together, every quest felt isolated from the previous one.

 

[EngryEngineer]

Oh, oopsie. I totally misread your post. Apologies.

Hey man, I've been thinking about this, and just wanted to be clear that I was just joking around, I hoped to make that obvious with the corny name calling. Seeing that spoiler tags were added, and you sincerely apologized, I just wanted to clarify and say I was at no point offended in any way, was just in a weird happily-jabby-humor mood. I'm sure people who care about spoilers appreciate the apology/spoiler tags (I don't understand spoiler aversion myself, but I'm a crazy person), just wanted to say sorry for making you feel they were truly necessitated.

 

[yyb0568]

God of War wins tga's goty beat rdr2 which has full of details but mediocre core gameplay. I never worry about CDPR's story telling skills What they need learn take more care of gameplay That's Achilles' Heel of CDPR