Lets Make ST Great Again

[rrc]

ST archetypes are what? Movement and Trap? Anything else? Elf Swarm is not a archetype so much as calling Human swarm. ST doesn't have any other identity and both movement and traps are in pathetic condition.

ST needs two good cards to make it good again So, my suggestions:

Nature's Gift: 10 Provision - Special Card - Play a special card from your deck. [This card may help Francesca to be one of the Tier 1 leaders, the first and only ST leader who can be in Tier 1]
Isengrim's Council: 15 Provision - Special Card - If you have 5 or more traps in your deck, play two traps. [In the current state Traps are Tier 10 or may be worse. This card is supposed to help it, but NO. Because of random 2 cards, it restricts adding Crushing Trap when adding Pit Trap as they both will be triggered and wasted. and there are not any other good traps. This can help Traps to be a Tier 2 deck.]

While other factions can build decks based on the archetype (Thrive, Deathwish, Bloodthirst, Reveal, etc.), ST can't build a deck around the two archetypes they have since those cards are just bad. To help movement a little edge, Dal Blathanna Sentry should get a boost. Either 4 provision or 4 power. With that we may see some variety from ST.

 

[A4TechiesGwent]

But Bruver is Tier1 ST leader c:

 

[_Kili_]

Wasn't ST the greatest faction just a few weeks ago?

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

There is also handbuff as an archetype.

 

[rrc]

Wasn't ST the greatest faction just a few weeks ago?

No. Artifacts were.

Post automatically merged: Jan 5, 2019

But Bruver is Tier1 ST leader c:

I don't think Brouver can win against Big Monster (or monsters in general) and even SK. They can win against other engine based decks.

 

[Pruny]

There is also handbuff as an archetype.

thats my love, but its kinda castrated now...
i tried some variations, but i wait for the patch to make some improvements.

 

[Mooseking86]

(Fila'vandrel) Handbuff Dwarves & Elves, Elves Only.
(Brouver) Shuffle
^Both are T1 Due to Consistency, only need 1-2 variations with cards to counter current meta. (Yrden for example counters 90% of Meta ATM)

Most of the removal & row shuffle cards can account for engines and also provide setup for huge punishes, I would argue that NG bronzes are the best atm(locks, control, engines, discard. And they all synergize well).

T2
(Eithne) Control (Elves / Elves & Artifact)
(Brouver) Traps & Artifacts.

T3 - Lowest
Francesca due to low mulligan & no abillity to thin consistently without brick.

There's yet to be a all race ST build due to the high provision cost of most of the multi race cards. Currently requiring 3x setup for sub par payoff, either reduce card provision cost in multi race or increase payoff to +3/4 greater power than provision cost.

Example: Isengrim Council (Currently 10p): Change the ability to play one of each race randomly. (14p. Balanced due to negating Deploy ability) or keep ability and reduce to 6 / 7p (In line with a Witcher Trio or Utility Card).

Changes in upcoming patch to address Mulligan will help Francesca, but right now she needs better synergy for spells. Her leader power is perhaps the best in the game after Usurper so it's a difficult ask. I would say spells aren't completely balanced atm, maybe a little bit too expensive for use (Golden Froth @ 14p for +2 to row for example) (+ there's a 15 special card played achievement that seems very difficult to get with the current build.)

Dryads also need better utility & synergy, Morenn is quite useful but there's just not enough Dryad cards and the rest are quite iffy.

Overall I think ST are probably #2 Faction atm, NG & MN seem to have the best synergy with their cards and leaders. But it's tight, Balance is pretty good atm and the upcoming Gwent Open should be interesting to watch.

They were easily #1 previous build though with low cost artifacts. But March will be here before you know it and we'll have a good look at the first real post HC version of Gwent, should be exciting.

 

[4RM3D]

ST archetypes are what? Movement and Trap?

As pointed out, there are various archetypes in ST. Traps was never tier 1 and Movement has been nerfed too much. Fortunately, there is still handbuff (among others). Which brings me too:

[handbuff] thats my love, but its kinda castrated now...
i tried some variations, but i wait for the patch to make some improvements.

Originally, I thought Handbuff Dwarfs not to be a tier 1 deck, but after trying it myself, I can say it's pretty strong.

Spoiler: Handbuff Dwarfs

Plenty of removal options, as well as various engines and some carryover. The carryover is especially nice to push round 1 or 2. EDIT: to clarify, you've got the resilience units, but also the points you gain from your handbuff engines as carryover.

Spoiler: Winrate

 

[rrc]

Plenty of removal options, as well as various engines and some carryover. The carryover is especially nice to push round 1 or 2.

Spoiler: Winrate

View attachment 10987189

Fantastic!! Which rank you are in (if you don't mind telling)? True.. Lately I am also thinking of removing Witcher Trio. I created one deck without them and I don't feel bad. They take too much provision point and sometimes just [Nope] you over by not getting drawn in R1 and even in R2.. completely confusing as to how to handle that.

 

[4RM3D]

Fantastic!! Which rank you are in (if you don't mind telling)?

Eh, I haven't been really serious in ranked, since the launch of HC. I stopped playing ranked after 15.

 

[rrc]

Eh, I haven't been really serious in ranked, since the launch of HC. I stopped playing ranked after 15.

If you could do that in Casual, then it is like you are doing it in top rank
I will try to create a deck around the handbuff concept and see how it goes. Thanks!

 

[Pruny]

Originally, I thought Handbuff Dwarfs not to be a tier 1 deck, but after trying it myself, I can say it's pretty strong.

Resilience is not my type

 

[Restlessdingo32]

I'd rather not think of it in terms of archetypes. It may boil down to semantics but, as stated before, HC doesn't really fit rigid archetypes.

The biggest issue I see with ST is the various anti-synergies and inflexibility of many cards, specifically bronze cards. Swordmaster and Vanguards only really fit with elves. Wardancer only fits with hand-buff. Most of the Dwarf bronzes only fit with other dwarves. The lone exception would be Defenders, Marauders, Pryotechnicians and Skirmishers. The first two only fit with boost concepts, Technicians only fit with artifacts (traps included) and Skirmishers are melee to melee locked. Sage, Farseer, Scout, HE Hunter and Supports have similar restrictions. DB Sentry/Brigade only work with movement. Panther can't target cards from an entire faction. About the only ST bronze cards not reliant on the deck being built a specific way are the deploy damage units, most of which were nerfed, and cards like Smuggler.

I'd also mention many of these cards are easily shut down, blocked, cannot exceed their cost (Officer), are extremely situational and/or cannot break even with the cost unless they work as desired. Basically, if someone shuts down what a ST deck is trying to do it tends to bleed value and perform inefficiently.

A major contributor here is the low value bodies. Most of the ST cards are inexplicably given tiny bodies with all of the power tied up in the ability. Even the adjustments made to the deploy damage cards due to Eithne didn't make sense. They were problematic precisely because almost all the power was tied up in the deploy ability. They should have had this power shifted off the ability and onto the body. Not had their flexibility neutered or prov cost forced into inefficient territory.

Certain other factions do not have to face these dilemmas. About the only other I can think of where it sort of applies is NR. Maybe MS DW but even that is far less restrictive.

The above applies to the gold selection slightly less but applies, nonetheless. Certain golds only work one way. Others are close to unplayable (Braenn).

The faction feels highly restrictive and situational. It can work if built well. It's still annoying. Worse yet, I seem to recall feeling this way about it at several points in beta (right when OB launched being the worst period). Same problems all over again.

 

[4RM3D]

Resilience is not my type

Spoiler

But locking is? I can see why. Anyhow, you could, of course, replace the resilience units with something else. It's not essential to the success of the deck.

 

[Pruny]

Spoiler

But locking is? I can see why.

my aguara will forever be the queen of hanbuff
http://www.imagebam.com/image/263a64872453024
havent used the hc76 version

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

I'd rather not think of it in terms of archetypes. It may boil down to semantics but, as stated before, HC doesn't really fit rigid archetypes.

The biggest issue I see with ST is the various anti-synergies and inflexibility of many cards, specifically bronze cards. Swordmaster and Vanguards only really fit with elves. Wardancer only fits with hand-buff. Most of the Dwarf bronzes only fit with other dwarves. The lone exception would be Defenders, Marauders, Pryotechnicians and Skirmishers. The first two only fit with boost concepts, Technicians only fit with artifacts (traps included) and Skirmishers are melee to melee locked. Sage, Farseer, Scout, HE Hunter and Supports have similar restrictions. DB Sentry/Brigade only work with movement. Panther can't target cards from an entire faction. About the only ST bronze cards not reliant on the deck being built a specific way are the deploy damage units, most of which were nerfed, and cards like Smuggler.

I'd also mention many of these cards are easily shut down, blocked, cannot exceed their cost (Officer), are extremely situational and/or cannot break even with the cost unless they work as desired. Basically, if someone shuts down what a ST deck is trying to do it tends to bleed value and perform inefficiently.

A major contributor here is the low value bodies. Most of the ST cards are inexplicably given tiny bodies with all of the power tied up in the ability. Even the adjustments made to the deploy damage cards due to Eithne didn't make sense. They were problematic precisely because almost all the power was tied up in the deploy ability. They should have had this power shifted off the ability and onto the body. Not had their flexibility neutered or prov cost forced into inefficient territory.

Certain other factions do not have to face these dilemmas. About the only other I can think of where it sort of applies is NR. Maybe MS DW but even that is far less restrictive.

The above applies to the gold selection slightly less but applies, nonetheless. Certain golds only work one way. Others are close to unplayable (Braenn).

The faction feels highly restrictive and situational. It can work if built well. It's still annoying. Worse yet, I seem to recall feeling this way about it at several points in beta (right when OB launched being the worst period). Same problems all over again.

Completly agree with that. ST has far too many units that are dependent on tags than actual playing concepts. Furthermore, the number of more complex plays, you can set up with bronze units is extremly limited and linear.
And in particular ally movement doesn't really exist as an interesting archetype. There could be a lot more interesting cards than just the sentry. Having a card that has a row dependant effect and starts with two charges, such that you can switch its ability inbetween. Cards that can only be played on ranged, but have their effects only triggered at melee, such that the player is required to move them, cards that automove depending on special conditions, and so on.

 

[Mooseking86]

RE Synergy & ST
The game needs more cards atm, and ST faction identity is rooted in race specific synergy.

Problem atm is that CDPR imposed a 2 card limit in Bronze cards. So while there is around the same amount of bronze cards as CB. We're forced to use 2+ different bronze cards in order to flesh out the deck.

CDPR tried to expand on ST race archetypes by including cards that cater to multirace builds instead of fleshing out elves & Dwarves in the HC transition. They took away functionality of previous build archetypes to try and make this work, so ST currently has less "race functional" cards.

Some cards need a rethink, but their functionality will improve once more cards are added to the game.

ST specific Tutors that play spells / artifacts (that don't cost 10+) that will help a lot (assuming they come with changes to mulligan), shifting away from reliance on Witcher Trio will greatly help ST decks with race archetypes as well.