The only thing that makes viper witchers annoying and why people consider them op is because they BANISH a card not destroy/graveyard it. Its a lot of power for a non golden card.
Usurper's ability isn't compatible with the levers of balance that CDPR has implemented into this game. Namely, as the OP said, provision costs are factored into the equation when it comes to a leader's ABILITY - which is given a provisions value based on how said ability interacts with the board. Once Usurper disables his opponent's ability, his opponent's provision penalty is STILL BEING PAID, with no benefit, while Usurper's ability is also being paid but while receiving FULL BENEFIT of his provisions penalty. That is asymmetrical for sure, and I think some of you are mistaking asymmetry as being equal to interesting and dynamic, but when you look at the way provisions are being used to balance the abilities, it actually goes beyond healthy asymmetry and into the category of unfairness.
Nobody plays a leader thinking they are going to give their opponent a good time. Everyone plays a leader first of all to win.
Sorry man, but that does not make any sense...What is the provision value of a leader's ability? Eithne currently has the most provisions at 19. Let's say a hypothetical leader without any abilities would have 30 provisions. Eithne has 19 provisions, so her ability is worth 30 - 19 = 11 provisions. Arachas Queen has 12 provisions, so her ability is worth 30 - 12 = 18 provisions.
When Usurper removes Eithne's ability, she loses 11 provisions and is virtually at 19 - 11 = 8 provision points. This is 2 less than Usurper with 10.
When Usurper removes Arachas Queen's ability, she loses 18 provisions and is virtually at 12 - 18 = minus 6 provisions, 16 less than Usurper!
I just played a game vs arachas queen as usurper, and sure enough i won R1, then i passed R2 and my opponent did too without playing anything. It's true that usurper vs arachas queen is just bad for business but its not the only game to have such unbalanced encounters. Hearthstone and Shadowverse have them too. And people complain, but people will always complain about something they dont like or find convenient, for that matter. I've had my fair share of encounters with usurpers, and i never found them to be overpowered, just annoying.
Can you explain why? Expressing the value of a leader ability in provision points seems to make sense, as CDPR does the same thing for balancing these leader abilities. And then this calculation works.Sorry man, but that does not make any sense...
Interesting point there. It’s also the effect that RNG can have on people (gambling). Winning through RNG does not make me feel like I accomplished something. In addition it can be addictive, so I would like to see it as little as possible in any game.I think players actually get addicted to being abused by bad card games. You know if you keep getting mana screwed in magic you think ,"One more try!!!" Instead of, "This is a terrible mana mechanic. I'm out. " It's like the way that a nice girl gets addicted to an abusive boyfriend.
Usurper is a real bad card if you rely on Arachas Queen. It's game over before the game started yet.
Can you explain why? Expressing the value of a leader ability in provision points seems to make sense, as CDPR does the same thing for balancing these leader abilities. And then this calculation works.
Yes, it’s an estimation of the provision points for a leader without any ability, for the sake of allowing a calculation. Eithne currently gives the most at 19, so if she (or any other leader) wouldn’t have an ability at all I estimated she would give 30. If the devs would have treated leaders the same way as cards (leaders costing provisions instead of giving provisions), this would have been a lot easier to calculate balance.Where does the 30 come from? Or is it just a random number to illustrate how different leaders have different values (in terms of provisions and actual value) and Usurper disables them all equally?
I don't play Usurper but it does strike me as odd that some people here think that they're going to be able to play their deck the way they want each and every time. There is interactivity/disruption in card games; it pushes you to think a little differently based on the match up instead of it being a linear process ad nauseam.
"The game should be played on the board" comes off as narrow minded. Options such as discard or milling add another dimension to the game thus more variety and more archetypes. Advocating the removal of such strategies is limiting the game in terms of creativity.
I don't play Usurper but it does strike me as odd that some people here think that they're going to be able to play their deck the way they want each and every time. There is interactivity/disruption in card games; it pushes you to think a little differently based on the match up instead of it being a linear process ad nauseam.
"The game should be played on the board" comes off as narrow minded. Options such as discard or milling add another dimension to the game thus more variety and more archetypes. Advocating the removal of such strategies is limiting the game in terms of creativity.
CDPR should keep the Prison archetype with Usurper and expand upon it just as they would do with the other archetypes/strategies. And if it really gets under your skin, then I don't think card games are for you.
Where did you get the impression that people think that? Not messing with people's decks and hands leaves enough RNG to not be able to play your deck consistently, but at least in a fair way.I don't play Usurper but it does strike me as odd that some people here think that they're going to be able to play their deck the way they want each and every time.
We're talking specific mechanics here and a proposal of ground rules to give the game a clear vision and identity. An anything-goes-for-the-sake-of-diversity mentality does not work well, as other card games have apparently shown. Nobody will be saying to make soccer more diverse by letting players use their hands, or also allow hockey sticks and mountain bikes (for one team!) for even more diversity. Again, some ground rules are needed for vision and identity.There is interactivity/disruption in card games; it pushes you to think a little differently based on the match up instead of it being a linear process ad nauseam.
"The game should be played on the board" comes off as narrow minded. Options such as discard or milling add another dimension to the game thus more variety and more archetypes. Advocating the removal of such strategies is limiting the game in terms of creativity.
Sure, you may be more motivated, but unfortunately your leader is disabled and several of your cards are less powerful because of that. In addition, some Viper Witchers, Traheaern and Tibor just removed your last hope from your deck through RNG. So literally, the only thing left you can do is calling him a son of a ... and forfeit. Fun. Fortunately there is no shame in losing to such a skilled and tactically superior opponent.Well, I never played Ursurper but actually I don't mind having him in the game. It sort of fits the overall Nilfgaard theme of betrayal, subterfuge and being "mean". If anything, I am even more motivated when playing against that son of a ... nice woman.
That sounds great. Can you tell what creative ways you have come up with to play around Usurper and his heavy control deck with your Foltest, Demavend or Arachas Queen deck?Maybe it is just me, but I don't want to play a game where I have an autopilot strategy set in stone that can be executed by a monkey. A disruptor like Ursurper forces me to think of other solutions and find creative ways to play around him. Given the low provisions, he is surely not overpowered I think.
Usurper selectively disabling leaders may be the largest unbalance possible. If he would not disable any leaders, then it would be nice and balanced.However, one suggestion: He should only disable active capabilities! That way, poor Arachas Queen would still work just fine. That little bug has a hard life as it stands anyway ... would also spice up things a bit!
That sounds great. Can you tell what creative ways you have come up with to play around Usurper and his heavy control deck with your Foltest, Demavend or Arachas Queen deck?