Spears and Gernichora are hella powerful. Somehow I managed a win, a tie and a loss with Ardal. But man is that thrive/spear engine oppressive to play against.
I should probably tech False Ciri
I should probably tech False Ciri
Yeah, the Gerni Fruit should be a spawn or a summon instead of a unit play. That would correct this particular problem. A spawn probably makes more sense.
I also think the idea with the MC Spear and Wyvern Shield change was fine but the implementation is a bit off. Instead of this...
Mastercrafted Spear
Zeal
Order: Damage an enemy unit by 1.
Refresh this ability whenever you play a unit.
It could borrow the Elven Swordmaster concept and be this....
Mastercrafted Spear
Zeal
Order: Damage an enemy unit by 1.
Cooldown: 2
Whenever you play a unit, decrease Cooldown by 1.
I believe this would completely block getting two pings on the same turn, which I don't think is intended behavior.
That would be too much of a nerf; no one would be playing Spears from a competitive standpoint anymore. I also need a larger sample size vs. Gernichora as well; I'm at rank 6 but haven't ran into her often at all yet.
If anything needs to be done, balancing the leader should be the priority. Spears after the change are quite fine; Gernichora alongside them might not be.
Why would that be too much of a nerf? It mainly affects Gernichora. Except her I can only think of Calveit. For every other deck it wouldn't change anything or even be a buff.
Why would it be too much of a nerf? Right now MC Spear and Scale Shield gain a charge for each unit play, beyond the first. Due to the way the ability works you can put a spear or shield on a board and hold the charge. So on the next turn you can ping a unit, play a unit from your hand and get an additional ping on the same turn. Again, I don't think this is intended behavior. I suppose it's possible it is by design.
The Gerni behavior is a separate issue. It's only related because Gerni can leverage this double ping ability more compared to other leaders because the token counts as a unit play. There are ways to beat the deck doing it, so it isn't necessarily broken. At least, not relative to 90% of the rest of the game. It's still probably not alright. Fortunately, it's an easy fix. As mentioned, making the Gerni token count as a spawn or summon.
The MC Spear example was more of a general suggestion. Not to nerf Gerni but to prevent the double artifact charge usage in the same turn. Those cards are 7p for a reason. If you do not or cannot remove them they will get very good value in a long round. They don't need the help from getting 2 pings on the same turn. Either to push an engine or valuable card into kill range or keep one out of it. Changing them as suggested doesn't alter the ability to gain a ping for each unit played. It merely prevents the double ping, or holding of charges to "save" them for the next round.
Still it doesn't mean anything, right? MO has so many broken cards and mechanics whether people play that more or not.
ah ok nvm, I didn't know it's fixed
irrevelant {Guys guys to make sure that Spears Gernichora bug is op, make calculations on how many points does Gernichora gain just because of spawning fruits
Using 4 artifacts and 16 turns, it's 82 points in total... A leader that does 82 points... (including the charge spears&shield have from normal spawn, not just fruit. 56 counting Fruit only. Better only Harald, doing 5x 8 hehe oh wait)}
irrevelant {Guys guys to make sure that Spears Gernichora bug is op, make calculations on how many points does Gernichora gain just because of spawning fruits
Using 4 artifacts and 16 turns, it's 82 points in total... A leader that does 82 points... (including the charge spears&shield have from normal spawn, not just fruit. 56 counting Fruit only. Better only Harald, doing 5x 8 hehe oh wait)}
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I just installed ~387 MB patch and after running game, Gernichora has text updated from "spawn and play" to "spawn and summon".
"I do not have any data left to backup basicly anything and do not refer to any facts, but let us just pretend subjective claims I apparenty do not even intend to backup are enough of a reason to gut a faction."
Don't have any data left? We are discussing one card in another forum (and I see that you take this notion of pretence and BS there). I will create posts for other cards I feel are broken. It was a reply to a statement saying MO is less. Feel free to create posts which you think are broken in other factions. Just please don't troll and flame on topics you don't like.
I am neither flaming, nor am I saying you should not make a point, however if you state cards, which are not played, are problematic, despite not even appearing to be problematic, you are being silly, in fact I am not even stating them not being played is true, however saying that without any factual arguments that argument does not hold is simply wrong.
No offense intended, however that is not an argument, maybe I should have stated that in a less sarcastic way.
Besides I am not saying other factions should be be hit, I have not much right now I want to get fixed (in terms of nerfs), so if I would state a faction should get hit that would be pure bias, in fact I want the trap archtype to be buffed (among other buffs) to be able to stand up to other decks.
Dear @InkognitoXI , thanks. Apology accepted.
Please open Gwentup and filter MO decks and see 50 decks in random (or in order). You will see WHR in at least 48 decks (or even 50 if you don't encounter Shupe decks). Also, I wont only discuss about auto-include bronze cards. I want to logically (as best as I can) discuss about other cards which are simply unfair and makes everyone to tech against them. I faced an opponent who has heavily teched against MO, when I played ST. It was really sad to see that. Yarden, Geralt Of Rivia, Eyck all putting 2 or 3 points on board. He would have definitely won against an MO, but had no chance against ST (and I think even with most of faction/leaders). If not for MO, no one would even create such a deck. It is like when Eithne artifact was in dominance, everyone had 3-4 artifact removal. Its disgusting. These kind of repeated tall units, or bigger than normal power swings destroys other's creativity. And I want CDPR to fix it, with the power civilians are entrusted with: Forums and Threads
That is how these cardgames work, people adapt to win against the current environment, accepting loses in case they have an edge in enough games to win more than they lose, which further changes other peoples choice in decks until this stabilizes.
If you think that is problematic or you simply do not want such a massive advantage based on the choice of decks that addresses the game in general and would involve the differences to be smoothed out, for all factions.
A potential solution would also be more versatile cards, like the old Silver Mages, which had the choice between 3 useful effects, including 1 specific and at least 1 generic to not be useless outside of these circumstances.
Come to think of it I am disappointed in the lack of such cards, given that they previewed a few of these before homecoming launched.
Problem is people have been adapting to the thrive + big unit concept for a while now. There are plenty of ways to counter this strategy. Shut down thrives and carry units to light up big boys. This is at least 3 patches where carrying tech cards against tall MS has been nearly an absolute requirement. When a concept needs to be teched against for such an interval of time it's probably an indication it needs to be looked into.
Regis: HV, Yrden, Bekker's, Geralt, Geralt: Professional, Scorch, Gigni, Blue Dream... the list goes on. The issue with those cards is all of them have been nerfed beyond Blue Dream and Geralt. Yet, tall units are left unchanged. What gives?
Shutting down thrives is equally problematic. Obviously there are plenty of cards out there capable of killing thrives. 1 pt unit kills, 4 pt unit kills. Cards like Gimpy, etc. Locks work wonders against them. Unfortunately, outside of NG or shackles this entails gold cards. So, in many cases, gold cards must be used to prevent bronze cards from getting mid-range gold value. Otherwise the options are limited to killing the thrives. Most builds, provided they're designed with the intent, can get most of them. Getting all of them is difficult outside of specific builds. It only takes one or two thrives sticking to make the provision deficit on tall units vanish.
It should be noted last patch tall MS builds shifted away from GY consume for a number of reasons. It allowed a greater focus toward control and, simultaneously, limited the value of resets. A reset does you no good if you don't take R1, lose last say, and the single ghoul (Ozzrel) tall MS build dumps a 23 pt Ozzrel on the board with last say. That reset isn't doing anything to the tall units themselves. It would be great if bleeding would counter this type of play. Unfortunately, bleeding against the faction with one of the strongest short rounds in the game is often counter-productive.
Even if you carry counters you need to draw them. I cannot count the number of games decided by this fact. Take R1 and pull the right counter, game over. The tall MS deck is completely fucked. Don't take R1 and you're probably losing the game. Don't find the counter, game over. This is simply bad design. It's not limited to tall MS either. All over this game winning R1 is too critical. For the simple reason so many finishers are flat out overpowered. I suspect this is to provide incentives to push R2 to compensate for the shitty hand limit implementation. Perhaps it's not. Regardless, it doesn't fit with a concept capable of mindlessly point-slamming a board, with a ridiculous short round.
A simple solution would be for the people making the balancing decisions to stop pulling up stat sheets without proper context and play the damn game.
Thanks a lot @Restlessdingo32 ! Very well said. I hope that with proper discussions in forums, we can achieve a better balance.