Opinion why treatment of Gimpy Gerwin is inappropriate

[Charles5pencer]

Hello dear reader,

I am convinced, that treatment to Gimpy Gerwin to change his provisions from 8 to 9 is inappropriate. Why do I think so?

Lets see, what kind of card Gimpy Gerwin is. He is not win condition or something, that you play and "BOOM, YOU WIN". Gimpy Gerwin is "tech card", which, when used in a deck, is making sure, that certain combo put into opponents deck, will not create something like "uncontrollable chain reaction". That is purpose and use of Gimpy Gerwin, that is, why he is played (at least by me) in (my) decks.

If developers think, that he is more effective than he should be, then proper treatment to tech card should not be making it less available to be put into deck (increasing its provisions from 8 to 9), but instead making card less effective (at example decresing power from 3 to 2).

Effect of decresing availability of a tech card has theoretically very significant impact on game environment and will just create other problems elsewhere. In my opinion, much better approach is to fix theoretically too high effectivity without creating other problems in same time.

Thank you for attention.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

It appears that any neutral card that sees a lot of play is going to get the nerf hammer. It's best to just brace yourself for the inevitable.

 

[Charles5pencer]

It appears that any neutral card that sees a lot of play is going to get the nerf hammer. It's best to just brace yourself for the inevitable.

The point is, if "tech card" sees lots of play, problem is not in that "tech card", but in overabundance of combos, against that card is "teching".

"Tech cards" are played not because they are good themselves, but because they are "solving some problem".

 

[4RM3D]

Nerf: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...tion-gimpy-should-get-a-slight-nerf.11003020/

Nerf more: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...ould-get-a-slight-nerf.11003020/post-11509372

Nerf less: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...nt-of-gimpy-gerwin-is-inappropriate.11004745/

 

[borut0207]

It appears that any neutral card that sees a lot of play is going to get the nerf hammer. It's best to just brace yourself for the inevitable.

Exactly. But not just popular neutral cards, but faction cards too (Coral, Ves, Sheldon Skaggs etc)

 

[rrc]

@Charles5pencer, he is a tech card, but *most* of the times he can not only break-even and can get more value too (9 value for 8 provisions). Even if he gets only 1 target, he is not really suffering much as he just lost only 2 provisions value. Which kind of made him auto include. With all factions have thinning card which summon a copy, there was no reason not to include him. Even if he doesn't get a pair, he can kill a good Engine. So, I was expecting a slight nerf.

But if his efficiency gets reduced (dealing 2 damage), I think it would be a huge nerf. In swarm match-ups, he will lose significant value. So, I think comparing to reducing damage, this is less severe of a nerf.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Exactly. But not just popular neutral cards, but faction cards too (Coral, Ves, Sheldon Skaggs etc)

Yes however those were pretty blatantly over powered.

 

[Charles5pencer]

@rrc I was mentioning reducing power, not damage. It is very similar approach to increasing provisions, just it is more friendly to "tech card purpose". I personally find 2-power Gimpy Gerwin with his ability and 8 provisions better way than 3-power Gimpy Gerwin with his ability and 9 provisions. In both cases difference between points versus provisions is same, just not increasing his provisions will let card keep its "tech role" unobstructed.

 

[mzeebra]

Hello dear reader,

I am convinced, that treatment to Gimpy Gerwin to change his provisions from 8 to 9 is inappropriate. Why do I think so?

I think the change is a good thing. Gimpy Gerwin is a special card and should not be so cheap that it is an auto-include in all decks.

Geralt Yrden is in my opinion a bit comparable. Granted, boosting is more common than duplication, and micro boosting is more common than playing out two bronze cards in the same round. But I use Yrden in almost all my decks, despite it costing 11 provisions. It is a consideration, and certainly not an auto-include. I think Gerwin should be the same, not an auto include. Both are good cards for their circumstances, but it is a special card for special circumstances, not a generic card, and both can brick and bring poor value. If Yrden was say 9 provisions, that would be too cheap and he would certainly become an auto include.

Gerwin changing from 8 to 9 is a good balance of that card. 9 provisions is not alot, but would make less people auto-include it and more people considering if they should actually include it in their deck. 8 provisions and putting 3 points on the board and doing at least 3 damage is not bad value, even if there is only 1 card. It would be better if Gerwin ONLY does damage if there are 2 or more copies of a card.

Would it be worth bringing Gerwin if he does no damage against a single unit? And is it worth bringing him just to do damage against a single unit with the potential to do more damage? Say 5 power and only does damage if there are multiple similar units. I dunno.

I think 9 provisions as the card is now makes sense. If there are two identical units, that gives 9 value for 9 provisions. Gimpy then only gives more value against special situations (draug, slave infantry, blue stripes etc).

6 value guarantee for 8 provisions was too unreasonable with the massive potential of this card.

 

[Charles5pencer]

9 provisions is not alot

9 is a lot, especially for a "tech card". "Tech cards" are not cards, which are core of your deck, neither they even support your deck. Tech cards are there to give you some counterplay in certain percentage of matchups and are keeping "stupid combos" at bay. 9 would not be a lot for a core card of your deck, which is making central idea of your build.

Why do I think it is a lot? Average number of provisions of card in deck is about 6.6. That means, for every card with 7 and more provisions, you should have good reason, wy you put into deck exactly this one card and not some other. The higher you go above 7 the more "heavier" that reason should be. "Tech card" at 9 is really a lot, which means, you probably have to do sacrificies for a "tech card"; card, which has nothing to do with idea of your deck, it is just needed because of "environment/meta/actual trend".

I wrote it above in other post and I want to repeat it. If some "tech card" is occuring in too many decks, it is probably because of problems, which that card is solving, rather than because that card is too good. That means, if something is holding in check certain "chain reaction combos", if that something is "removed", "unchecked wilderness" will happen and it will have effect on whole game environment. At example there is said in MtG terminology that "Force of Will is a glue which is holding Legacy together." (Sorry if you are not familiar with MtG example.) I see Gimpy Gerwin as something similar in Gwent.

 

[Alexander_Volgin]

Developers have been active each month in balancing cards, such that a certain card doesent get too much value. You cannot compare that with MtG which I assume is horribly balanced in which tech choices might be more appropriate.

Given this approach, what doesent make sence is developers trying to nerf certain swam cards (Draug got nerfed btw) while at the same time allowing tech choices to exist that completely counters certain deck building. This is a very bad design that constraints deck diversity.

 

[mzeebra]

9 is a lot, especially for a "tech card". "Tech cards" are not cards, which are core of your deck, neither they even support your deck. Tech cards are there to give you some counterplay in certain percentage of matchups and are keeping "stupid combos" at bay. 9 would not be a lot for a core card of your deck, which is making central idea of your build.

Why do I think it is a lot? Average number of provisions of card in deck is about 6.6. That means, for every card with 7 and more provisions, you should have good reason, wy you put into deck exactly this one card and not some other. The higher you go above 7 the more "heavier" that reason should be. "Tech card" at 9 is really a lot, which means, you probably have to do sacrificies for a "tech card"; card, which has nothing to do with idea of your deck, it is just needed because of "environment/meta/actual trend".

I wrote it above in other post and I want to repeat it. If some "tech card" is occuring in too many decks, it is probably because of problems, which that card is solving, rather than because that card is too good. That means, if something is holding in check certain "chain reaction combos", if that something is "removed", "unchecked wilderness" will happen and it will have effect on whole game environment. At example there is said in MtG terminology that "Force of Will is a glue which is holding Legacy together." (Sorry if you are not familiar with MtG example.) I see Gimpy Gerwin as something similar in Gwent.

I agree with most of what you say, but I don't think 9 provisions is alot for that particular card. I think it's pretty good compared to 8. When it is 8 you get 6 guaranteed value from it, so it can be a core card. If it is 9, that is slightly different.

Besides, on average, at 9 provisions, the value of the card is better reflected than when it is 8. Even with 8, you can get above average value if any opponent plays two identical bronze cards (which happens enough). And then on top of that you have ADDED possible value. So 9 is better than 8. 8 is perhaps ok if you can ONLY damage units if there are two or more, and no damage if there are no identical units.

 

[Raziel_888]

Gimpy is fine like that imo. Most of the arguments have already been made but still:
He's indeed not only a tech card. He can be used as a tech card to reach crazy value and sometimes destroy a whole play (like with Draug, Arachas queen...) but even against other decks he still can work as removal. Now Ifrit and Regis have got a 1 provision increase so 4 power, 4 damage (so 8 value) for 10 provision. Gimpy is 3 power, 3 damage (6 value) for 9 at the minimum (so already better than Geralt: Professional) but just play it on with 2 targets (which is pretty easy to accomplish) and he jumps to 9 value already.
If he was just a tech card we wouldn't see him in every deck... (btw i know it's off topic and I'm not the one to complain often but it's starting to be reaaaaaaaaally annoying to see most of the decks, throughout every faction, play Gimpy, Cleaver, Ifrit and/or Regis).
And also, of course not all, but a bunch of leaders got a couple more provisions so for those ones the increase in 1 provision doesn't even change anything.