Fairly disappointed leveled enemies are still in.

+
Numbers flying off bodies are not a real concern, by the way.
They already confirmed you'll be able to turn them off.

Still, are the core mechanics underlying the system that concern me. If I shoot someone in the head, I expect one or two bullets to be enough unless he has an helmet or some sort of cybernetic reinforcement.
I absolutely do not want to see a naked street thug surviving five headshots in a row (or worse) only because he's level 20 and my gun is level 5.

I think you can turn it off in most games that feature that but it's often still pretty essential, because it's alll build around shooting health bars down and different weapons take more or less health, so it's better to see how much damage you do. That's not really necessary anymore the moment they do as you say - there is a head, you put a bullet in it, it's done. No need for numbers, not even health bars, because the priority tends more in the direction of authencity. We often don't have this stuff in shooters because we know an enemy takes X hits and it's less about the used weapon but what body part you hit and if the enemy has some kind of protection.

What you describe is my main concern too, I simply don't want to engage in a mission and fill everything, heads, legs, arms, chest with bullets, just because "level 20 thug with 2.000 life points hit by level 5 gun that takes away 5 life points per bullet". I hit a leg, the enemy should slow down. I hit an arm, maybe that enemy loses the weapon, I hit the head - it's dead. In any case something does take more hits, I rather want to actually see the development of the fight, like protection breaking apart and falling off.
 
Leveled enemies are definitely not something I'd love but as long as it fits the bigger picture of the RPG mechanics and doesn't break the immersivity too much I can live with that. But what I would really HATE are absurd bulletsponges like in The Division. I was sooo hyped for that game but once I saw that disguisting thing in a gameplay video it was an instant deal breaker for me. This concern is probably the only reason why I hesitate to preorder.

That also why I disliked destiny. A point blank shot to the head should kill most things. In Cyberpunk there are creative exceptions within, as has been said, it makes sense within the game's universe. A human having HP as a purely numeric value is a bit absurd these days. Even when I run PnP games a player can behead an absurdly strong enemy and kill it even if they didn't deal enough damage to the HP. Because it makes sense. I apologize if my explanation isn't great. Explaining things isn't a strong suit of mine.
 
That also why I disliked destiny. A point blank shot to the head should kill most things. In Cyberpunk there are creative exceptions within, as has been said, it makes sense within the game's universe. A human having HP as a purely numeric value is a bit absurd these days. Even when I run PnP games a player can behead an absurdly strong enemy and kill it even if they didn't deal enough damage to the HP. Because it makes sense. I apologize if my explanation isn't great. Explaining things isn't a strong suit of mine.

Your explanation is actually excellent. I mean we can - and we probably do - expect some tough heavily augmented enemies or enemies wearing military grade top tier armour etc. It makes perfect sense that they would be spongy and maybe not even killable with weaker guns. But as you basically say, shooting the head of an unarmored targed simply should do the work, not just deduct few HPs because that NPC is 8 zilions lvls higher than me.
 
...But that's exactly how it worked in TW3, as well?
And that would be "not particularly well", I may add. Which is precisely where the concerns come from.

That's wholly possible. I don't know why I'm getting the vibe I'm getting from it, and I could just be wrong. But I think that your character level will wind up affecting your skills...your gear will be independent of it. I'm seeing a jacket at Level 2...not requiring Level 2. We'll just have to wait for more info on the details of how it all works.
 
Still a mass-market RPG and that means levels and HP and level gating.

But why? Why does it "mean" that? Who decided it "means" that? On what basis?

Such shit is almost universally lambasted where people are asked about it, while the majority might not even care one way or another because they just play the game as it is.
 
But why? Why does it "mean" that? Who decided it "means" that? On what basis?

Such shit is almost universally lambasted where people are asked about it, while the majority might not even care one way or another because they just play the game as it is.


Well I know most publishers like to sell things to the majority of people and if the majority of people "don't care" if something is one way or another they'll still buy the product obviously. However, if you change it and make it something where people "do care" they take a risk. Taking risks is gambling and companies don't like to gamble. So the more companies you have working on a project the fewer "risks" will be taken because even if one is willing having even one who isn't means it won't happen.
 
This is a RPG, you need to level up, get better gear to progress. this isn't Call of Duty.
That is not what I think makes a game an "RPG", at least for me... that is little more than gathering & accountancy (which have their place).

I think the ability to develop distinctive skills rather than abstract 'levels', and interact with NPCs in ways that don't involve putting a bullet in their face, that is what makes for a modern RPG, not levelled gear-grinding.

But of course, opinions vary.
 
This is a RPG, you need to level up, get better gear to progress. this isn't Call of Duty.
Says who?
Why?

I've played, and ran, several RPGs that do neither. And guess what, they work just fine.
Levels and progressive gear improvements are primarily MMO tropes.
Yeah, in D&D you don't get a +5 weapon at 1st level (usually) but if you do somehow manage to do so you can use it.
 
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That is not what I think makes a game an "RPG", at least for me... that is little more than gathering & accountancy (which have their place).

This is not about the game being RPG or not. This is about it being a good RPG vs a bad RPG. Bad RPG would hand-hold the player and guide him/her through a restricted, linear, pre-determined story.
A good RPG would allow the player to experience the world and the story at their leisure, via freedom of choice.
 
Wants it to be a RPG but doesn't want levels.....make it make sense.

Its a game based on a pen and paper game with a level based role system. But think its bad for the game.
 
Wants it to be a RPG but doesn't want levels.....make it make sense.

Feel free to look for my earlier posts on these forums I've been making past couple days. Character level is completely superfluous.

You can have character progression by merely updating skills/attributes/etc via collected xp.
The fact that X amount of collected XP makes you Level Y is irrelevant.
The problems arise when game states that you must have lvl Y in order to access this feature, area, weapon, etc. This is non-immersive.
 
Feel free to look for my earlier posts on these forums I've been making past couple days. Character level is completely superfluous.

You can have character progression by merely updating skills/attributes/etc via collected xp.
The fact that X amount of collected XP makes you Level Y is irrelevant.
The problems arise when game states that you must have lvl Y in order to access this feature, area, weapon, etc. This is non-immersive.

I haven't seen anywhere in the previews or impressions about things being locked behind leveling, alone. Especially in order to access certain features. To my knowledge most of that is help or not help by things like cool and other reputation based XP related mechanics gained. Its more about interaction and doing favors/mini branch beats to "unlock" some of the more unique aspects of the game. It would be dumb to gate content, as it would neglect the purpose of it being a open world, with freedom of choice and certainly Witcher 3 never created this barrier for players.

Don't see why this game would handle this differently.

The P&P RPG, C2020, actually didn't had "levels".
You know what i mean.
 
You know what i mean.

Mean what? I thought you specifically referenced Cyberpunk 2020 pen and paper game? ....Which doesn't have levels.
I would recommend fact-checking but why deny the forums of some entertainment..

Btw, neither do the games devs cited as inspiration have levels, Deus Ex and Vampire the masquerade: bloodlines.

It is true that we have no proof of level-locking so far, but it still raises the question of why have levels in the first place? Many things that I saw this E3 gave hints that CDPR is going mainstream. Which is a disappointment to me, personally.
 
I trust in CDPR, its massive game, 80 hour main and 200 with all sides. 200 hour is so long, not all of us are gonna even finish it.
 
Btw, neither do the games devs cited as inspiration have levels, Deus Ex and Vampire the masquerade: bloodlines.

It is true that we have no proof of level-locking so far, but it still raises the question of why have levels in the first place? Many things that I saw this E3 gave hints that CDPR is going mainstream. Which is a disappointment to me, personally.
Seems to me that you're looking to be disappointed.
 
I say they should try with somekind of excitement boost, like 20 hour in and Lady Gaga is everywhere around the Night City, and at 30 hour or so you can actually go see her in a club or so. They gotta keep the Journey as interesting and exciting as possible.
 
I say they should try with somekind of excitement boost, like 20 hour in and Lady Gaga is everywhere around the Night City, and at 30 hour or so you can actually go see her in a club or so. They gotta keep the Journey as interesting and exciting as possible.

What they would need to do to keep me excited would be a glimpse of the map, show movement within the city, confirm that the world is still open-world as advertised. I got too many negative signals in this years E3, not enough positive ones.
 
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