King Demaved, too easy to counter?

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Hey there guys,

how do you feel about King Demaved? I used to play him a lot when HC came out, but i stoped playing with him bcs many decks very control heavy, which rendered him useless. And since there is a faction challenge and i chose NR, i got forced to give it a try again. Managed to win a few times, but he still feels like the worst NR leader bcs he is too easy to counter by removal. Its a bit better these days bcs there isnt so much control and we got a few shields, but its still kinda ,,MEH,,

The main problem for me is that large majority of charge units are order based without zeal. So when you use him on that unit and it gets removed you loose value. If you wait and dont use him right away, you loose value bcs of 2 turn cooldown. And if you wait and the unit gets removed, locked or seized anyway, you cant use him and you have to play another unit and wait another turn, so you loose value bcs of 2 turn cooldown again. You see the pattern here, right?

I would like to know your point of view on this matter.
 
Of course Demavend is unplayable, you know if you have lost even before the match starts. No chance against heavy control because he is a greedy leader, it is kind of all-in each time you play him.

I played him yesterday for the faction challenge, one game, one victory, then switched :ok:You won't believe me but it was against Eithné ! Quite happy with this Foltest Pride, right after his last control.

The only viable strategy is to swarm the board with engines until your opponent has no more control. Machines are so powerful than only one can give you the round.

PS : and good luck with the bleed R2 :cry:
 
I'd really wish Demavend decks had a couple of tools to generate less value but make their deck safer. Like Dandelion getting a shield and instead of boosting only giving shields to allies. That would overall be a lot less value, but he would be able to protect your cards quite well.
 
Yes, dandelion can generate a lot of value, but how often does that happen? I wouldnt change him to give shields, it kinda doesnt fit for him to do. I do have him in my deck, but he is just a removal target and he very rarely survives even despite he is 5 pointer. He is something like Geels for monsters, he doesnt get to do his thing very often, but when he does, you win.

I do think Demavends ability should be tweaked a bit in order to work as a valid leader.

What about to give him charges? His ability would stay the same, but with 1 turn cooldown and he would have charges, which would increase by 1 every 2 rounds. That way he could store his charges for later, but he wouldnt be able to use them all at once.
 
I would like to know your point of view on this matter.
For opinion you asked and opinion comes ... First of all, I think, that Northern Realms are the toughest faction to play. It is not related to leaders exclusively, it is the nature and spirit of faction and its cards. I do not see problem with it as a principle, it just may discourage certain people like beginners, people with limitd collection or impatient people who like to rush their opponent in Monsters style. That being said, in my opinion, Northern Realms are not for everybody.

Second important point is directly related to Demavend III. Generally when you go to war/fight/duel/brawl... you can not expect to get out of it without single scratch. You can not expect to always perform the best available move/punch/hit/strike... no matter how much you would like to do it. At example Brouver Hoog will lose some value if he would be forced to use his ability on opponents Slyzard, despite he would definitely want to use it on his own Vrihedd Brigade. Or Eredin Breacc Glas would like to use his ability on Yennefer: Conjurer, but he has to use it on Plumard on 1 remaining power to avoid Gregoire de Gorgon. Or Crach an Craite would like to use his ability on third opponents unit to enable Bloodthirst 3, but opponent has unit at 1 remaining power with strong ability, which needs to be killed and that would even decrease current Bloodthirst count to just 1.

It is natural, that there is not always possible to perform the strongest maneuver planned, because immediate situation requires to do something else. Not using leader to the fullest potential is not related to Demavend III only. It is problem, which all factions and most of the leaders face.
 
I disagree, it doesnt matter which unit you buff/damage with Brouver, you always get those 3 moves and 6 points. It doesnt matter which units you buff and shield with Eredin, you always get those 2 shields a 6 points. The same goes for Meve/Crach/Eithné... you always get the guaranteed value. Yes, you want to use them on ideal targets to maximize their value, but even if you dont have those ideal targets, you always get the minimal value from them.
That is not the case with Demavend.

The only thing i agree with you, is that NR are harder to pilot. You got to think more about your strategy, bcs when you screw up, you loose a lot of value since it is a engine heavy faction.
 
I would like to know your point of view on this matter.

Last time I tried Demavend it was horrible and frustrating. The engines were over complex and huge, and once they got rolling it was amazing, but that rarely happened.

Anyways, the new cards of NR added in Crimson Curse are quite good, and I've started playing a bit of NR again with the faction challenge. I've changed my take on Demavend entirely. I think a much better way to do it is to use smaller engines, simple things.

The "standard" NR bronze package is good for Demavend, and some standard gold cards. Then if you feel fancy, you can add a few Demavend type cards on top of that.

I've met a few good Demavend decks actually. Not sure how they did it, but they were good. I had troubles locking down and destroying all the necessary things (with NG) to avoid issues. But unless you are an expert, then perhaps just keep it simple.
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I'd really wish Demavend decks had a couple of tools to generate less value but make their deck safer. Like Dandelion getting a shield and instead of boosting only giving shields to allies. That would overall be a lot less value, but he would be able to protect your cards quite well.

I don't like that idea. Bloody flail and Dandelion are good engines that can be used as uncomplex additions even in simple Demavend engines (NR engines really). Ofcourse, most of the time Dandelion gets removed, but if not, he can be decent support to a SMALL engine.

Just don't take the Thaler+Dandelion+Pricilla route or even Roche, most often you end face down in the mud. Better use those provisions on more generic gold cards. Unless you just add a simple Dandelion or Bloody Flail to some "standard"(bronze) NR engine. In such a place Dandelion could really shine and save, with his current ability.
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What about to give him charges? His ability would stay the same, but with 1 turn cooldown and he would have charges, which would increase by 1 every 2 rounds. That way he could store his charges for later, but he wouldnt be able to use them all at once.

I think that would make him alot worse. Unless it was somewhat charge+1-boost, but that wouldn't justify keeping his provisions.

You can get what now? 5+2+2? 9 or 10 charges total or something like that?
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I guess what I was trying to say really. Don't build your deck around Damavend, build it around the strengths of NR and add some Demavend stuff to it.
 
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The whole problem is that Order Mechanic makes you wait 1 turn and the enemy can just point or control vomit you without consequences most of the time.
And this happens mostly when you already have used Demavent charge ... , so basically you are always behind.
Too much effort to play him , going too less ...
Wining with him , ~90% of the time is because the enemy had bad mulligans or just did not remove something in time.
 
The whole problem is that Order Mechanic makes you wait 1 turn and the enemy can just point or control vomit you without consequences most of the time.
And this happens mostly when you already have used Demavent charge ... , so basically you are always behind.
Too much effort to play him , going too less ...
Wining with him , ~90% of the time is because the enemy had bad mulligans or just did not remove something in time.

I think yes, that is the case if you make the deck overly complex and too many fancy engines. Try to keep it simple.
 
I think yes, that is the case if you make the deck overly complex and too many fancy engines. Try to keep it simple.
This is the problem with doing decks in Homecoming ... you use most of the cards in every deck ...
If a person want's to ''keep it simple and not overly complex'' - He or she can just go Henselt and engine vomit ...
As Demavent , you are 1-2 turns behind and you lose your Leader Trait every turn you use it on a unit before it can be used ~90% of the time (if you wait with it - it's the same).
Compare him to lets say ... Brouver , Franceska or Ethne ... - they have engines that just do their stuff auto , they have higher tempo , they have deploy damage and locks (control) , tall units , row damage , good thinning and immune units (some of them engines).

Basically , the people who play Demavent atm , are the bored ones , the ignorant and the Streamers who pretend to be cool.
 
This is the problem with doing decks in Homecoming ... you use most of the cards in every deck ...
If a person want's to ''keep it simple and not overly complex'' - He or she can just go Henselt and engine vomit ...
As Demavent , you are 1-2 turns behind and you lose your Leader Trait every turn you use it on a unit before it can be used ~90% of the time (if you wait with it - it's the same).
Compare him to lets say ... Brouver , Franceska or Ethne ... - they have engines that just do their stuff auto , they have higher tempo , they have deploy damage and locks (control) , tall units , row damage , good thinning and immune units (some of them engines).

Basically , the people who play Demavent atm , are the bored ones , the ignorant and the Streamers who pretend to be cool.

Well. Demavend has an advantage with a small bronze engine too in a long round. Probably round 1. If you add something simple like Dandelion or Bloody Flail to that, it can be effective. Probably a good choice would be to use Bloody Flail and try some combination of Avellach and Dandelion in the last round with say the 8 provision card that gains a charge every time someone plays a card (whom I don't remember the name of).

I've tried a complex setup with Demavend with Dandelion, Priscilla, Thaler Bloody Flail, Trebuchet and Hubert, but it tends to fail and it takes a long time to set up, so the round is probably over at that point anyways.

Another approach that I've seen and not tried is to exhaust the locks and damage of the opponent by spamming the board with stuff he needs to remove, then save the best for last (foltest pride, priscilla, dandelion etc). Not sure how well that works overall, but Demavend charges seems mostly wasted in round 1 and 2 in that case.
 
I play demavend often lately and he became my favourite NR leader. I am good versus most decks, most problematic ones are usurper (neverending locks and removal) and eithne, though I beat eithne sometimes since I have more engines than she does have removal. He is quite interesting, and I believe he is stronger than king henselt (in leader challenge I had to play like 6-7 games with henselt to win, all others were 1-2 games). Engine vomit works quite good :D
 
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