Let's talk Skellige - what's wrong with this faction?

[mzeebra]

Well said GiveYourBest and nice signature.

I crack up when I see that others say that Skellige is like that because it is the only perfected faction, while all the rest are terrible because they are not perfected.

Nope, Svalblod Priest is not notoriously difficult to remove and require the correct cards at the correct time (luck) to avoid him turning into the biggest unit on the board by far.
Nope, invulnerable Svalblod Champion is not overpowered at 9 provisions and 12 power and self healing, to guarantee only Geralt/Leo etc can take him out. That's why people being renew for Skellige so often, just because it's such a bad card.
Nah, Hjalmar is not a cheap combination with a 5 provision 7 point guarantee in the graveyard. That way, no need to bring or use any expensive card to make Hjalmar work well. You can guarantee value with a 7 power 5 provision card. How nice. Note. Make sure the opponent waste their thunder or assasination card to take our a 7 power unit, and pretend is is 4 power, so they cannot use those cards on other units.
While Skellige just bombard the board with overpowered and indestructible units and secure these with renew and get value with them with other cards, be sure that Skellige can destroy any large card of the opponent easily. Not overpowered at all.

Skellige is just fine tuned. All other factions are not, this is why they are so terrible compared to Skellige. It has nothing do with any overpowered units of Skellige. Nope, nada, niet, non.

Regards,
Mr Sarcastic

 

[tulamide]

It's interesting how people. when it comes to Skellige, know everything better than the people who actually play that faction. Let's see if it works the other way round, or if I see outrage:

No, Magne division is not a totally overpowered card that at 4p becomes the biggest unit on the board by far.
Nope, Cantarella isn't incredibly powerful at just 7p, played out on the opponent's side with just 1 str, and the ability to steal (steal! not copy!) a 15p card from the opponent.
Nah, Vanhemar at only 6p killing a locked 23 str unit isn't unbelievably useful. Note, make sure the opponent wastes his unlocking special before locking the card again as cheap fodder for Vanhemar, so they cannot use those cards on other units.


No, Tridam Infantry isn't the machine gun of Gwent for just 4p, easily boostable and taking out expensive 10p+ cards.
Nope, Anna Strenger at just 7p boosting two cards to heaven and back, making them the biggest units on the board by far isn't ridiculous.
Nah, Reinforced Trebuchet, super cheap 5p/4str with autodamaging incl. immune units is not a sure bet in every NR deck because it is powerful. No, they just like the image on the card.

Regards,
Herr Sarkastisch

 

[mzeebra]

It's interesting how people. when it comes to Skellige, know everything better than the people who actually play that faction. Let's see if it works the other way round, or if I see outrage:

No, Magne division is not a totally overpowered card that at 4p becomes the biggest unit on the board by far.
Nope, Cantarella isn't incredibly powerful at just 7p, played out on the opponent's side with just 1 str, and the ability to steal (steal! not copy!) a 15p card from the opponent.
Nah, Vanhemar at only 6p killing a locked 23 str unit isn't unbelievably useful. Note, make sure the opponent wastes his unlocking special before locking the card again as cheap fodder for Vanhemar, so they cannot use those cards on other units.


No, Tridam Infantry isn't the machine gun of Gwent for just 4p, easily boostable and taking out expensive 10p+ cards.
Nope, Anna Strenger at just 7p boosting two cards to heaven and back, making them the biggest units on the board by far isn't ridiculous.
Nah, Reinforced Trebuchet, super cheap 5p/4str with autodamaging incl. immune units is not a sure bet in every NR deck because it is powerful. No, they just like the image on the card.

Regards,
Herr Sarkastisch

Magne division is very easy to take out in multiple ways, but sure, if it is put early and nothing is done, it can get big (11).

Vanhemar is an incovenient play actually. You have to "waste" a lock, and preferably not shackles. To take out a unit is ALWAYS a two card move.

Tridam is very powerful. Anna strenger is a gold card and an engine that is easier to take out than Svalblod priest. Unless you play and keep Tridam, the synergies are less than Svalblod Priest, and the pace of boost is the same.

Reinforced trebuchet can be powerful, but is easy to take out and difficult to set up.

 

[BoYoDes]

It's interesting how people. when it comes to Skellige, know everything better than the people who actually play that faction. Let's see if it works the other way round, or if I see outrage:

No, Magne division is not a totally overpowered card that at 4p becomes the biggest unit on the board by far.
Nope, Cantarella isn't incredibly powerful at just 7p, played out on the opponent's side with just 1 str, and the ability to steal (steal! not copy!) a 15p card from the opponent.
Nah, Vanhemar at only 6p killing a locked 23 str unit isn't unbelievably useful. Note, make sure the opponent wastes his unlocking special before locking the card again as cheap fodder for Vanhemar, so they cannot use those cards on other units.


No, Tridam Infantry isn't the machine gun of Gwent for just 4p, easily boostable and taking out expensive 10p+ cards.
Nope, Anna Strenger at just 7p boosting two cards to heaven and back, making them the biggest units on the board by far isn't ridiculous.
Nah, Reinforced Trebuchet, super cheap 5p/4str with autodamaging incl. immune units is not a sure bet in every NR deck because it is powerful. No, they just like the image on the card.

Regards,
Herr Sarkastisch

Yeah, compare few cards from different factions to ALL of SK cards in general. It's genius.

 

[tulamide]

Wow, that really didn't take long. Thanks to you both, for proving my point!

 

[DRK3]

Skellige really is overpowered right now. One of the symptoms when a faction is OP - and let's not forget before these 2 months of SK OP, we had 6 months of Monsters OP - is that players using it constantly go for 2-0, with extreme self-confidence they wont lose CA.

Im using an Unseen Elder deck now, to take advantage of this - SK players know i can use my Leader ability on all 3 rounds, and still try to 2-0 me, only to lose CA and ultimately lose, because they're just idiots using powerful decks.

 

[mzeebra]

For that reason DRK I stopped giving GG to Svalblod in particular. It's just an overpowered deck, and just about creating the most overpowered version of it. The design is the problem. I'm not saying that it is the fault of the player, but I don't think it is a GG when they win with completely overpowered cards.

It's quite sad, and I really hope to see CDPR make adjustments to Skellige, some overpowered cards and leaders.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

One of the symptoms when a faction is OP - and let's not forget before these 2 months of SK OP, we had 6 months of Monsters OP

You make it sound like SK wasn't incredibly strong the entire time MS was getting slapped with OP labels. It's been a very strong faction for a very long time now. It's important to note this should not be confused with viable. For pretty much all of HC, assuming a competent player, every faction has had a viable build to play. Strong vs weak is more a question of whether a build or faction is a better choice for climbing. It's hard to argue SK hasn't been one of the stronger choices to pick for this purpose for... all of HC. Hence, this thread.

For the record, I'm not saying this to you specifically or claiming you disagree. Also for the record, I've played SK quite a bit for HC. Not because I necessarily like the faction either (partial to ST, to be honest). It's because it's been really strong for all of HC and a good option to climb with .

 

[Raunbjorn]

For that reason DRK I stopped giving GG to Svalblod in particular. It's just an overpowered deck, and just about creating the most overpowered version of it. The design is the problem. I'm not saying that it is the fault of the player, but I don't think it is a GG when they win with completely overpowered cards.

It's quite sad, and I really hope to see CDPR make adjustments to Skellige, some overpowered cards and leaders.

That's what I'm afraid of - CDPR nerfing SK to the ground IE having to play boring filler cards with no synergy what so ever. Instead of nerfing SK they need to buff all the other factions. Right now, SK is the only faction that I enjoy playing mainly because they have some kind of identity to them and because almost every card is flavourful and synergistic. I think people here are getting it all wrong. Make every faction fun and viable instead of making Skellige a boring faction to play along with all the other ones.

 

[mzeebra]

That's what I'm afraid of - CDPR nerfing SK to the ground IE having to play boring filler cards with no synergy what so ever. Instead of nerfing SK they need to buff all the other factions. Right now, SK is the only faction that I enjoy playing mainly because they have some kind of identity to them and because almost every card is flavourful and synergistic. I think people here are getting it all wrong. Make every faction fun and viable instead of making Skellige a boring faction to play along with all the other ones.

Well, they don't have to completely change Skellige to adjust it more to the level of the other factions. Little things can go a long way. Svalblod Priest boost 1 instead of 2 would be a good change and do alot in improving things.
Reworking the Disgraced Brawler would work as well. 3 damage, 3 power, destroy self if not bloodthirst 3. Removing the tall unit factor and cheap graveyard synergy, and force players to use other cards for Hjalmar.
Just increase the provisions for Ulhedinn, same with Vabjorn, decrease Vabjorns board points and add condition bloodthirst 3.

These are not huge changes and wouldn't change the way Skellige works. They would still keep all their types etc. But small changes like this would go a long way.

The main problem is Vildkarl. This needs a major rework, and I don't think that will hurt Skellige. Reducing Svalblods provision to 14-15 would also not hurt Skellige, just reduce Svalblod.

Do you think doing such small changes would change Skellige dramatically or "ruin" their types? I don't think it would, I think Skellige would remain pretty much the same, but allaround being a little less powerful.

I don't want to see Skellige change. I like the types etc. I just don't like the overpowered aspect and think it needs to be toned down. Not having ALOT of tall units should be a fair price to pay for having so much damage control to their faction. I think it was a mistake to add more big units, especially Brawler. And the immortally defect Vildkarl/Champion (who is so good he almost guarantees the deck also includes renew)

 

[borut0207]

YIt's hard to argue SK hasn't been one of the stronger choices to pick for this purpose for... all of HC. Hence, this thread.

Monsters and Skellige were the strongest factions throughout the HC, but MO was dominant and SK close second. After a series of nerfs to MO and buffs to SK, the latter is dominant now.

I remember reading somewhere a few months back that ST was the most popular faction and SK the least. I have no idea if that was true or not, but it would explain CDPR building up the faction. That's the thing, we simply don't have the data to really understand the reasons for CDPR's choices, only they do.

 

[DRK3]

I want to add that it's really sad to me seeing all of this hate for Svalblod. I absolutely love the Leader, as i've been a fan of the self-damage archetype since it's very beginning. Before there was Svalblod, i used Crach on a self-damage deck, as he was able to hit any unit back then.

I hope they dont nerf Svalblod, the leader, but the cards that are OP, and are not just found on svalblod decks but any SK decks: Harald Houndsnout, Svalblod Priest and Svalblod Totem. Ulfheddin and Vildkaarl need a nerf too.

If you really think about it, its those cards that are the problem and not the 5 pings that actually only work positively on a limited amount of units: Vildkaarl, Shieldmaidens, Olaf, Harald's skulls, but also Queensguards, Blueboy Lugos and that's pretty much it...

And these last 2, are actually the ones that provide more value to the svalblod pings, and yet nobody is complaining about them - because they're engines, and have a risk, so almost nobody plays them, opting for safe instant value.

 

[tulamide]

I'm not buying it. All this "op" yelling. Where does it come from? Something used to be called overpowered, if it was too strong to beat. So I have to assume (since nobody here defines, what op means), people here are complaining because they lose against such a deck. That would be subjective of course.

You, DRK3, are a SK player. So let me ask, why you think Harald needs a nerf? Where does it come from? What was the situation that led you to think "oh, I'm playing an overpowered unit"?

If I look at the facts, it's a clear thing. 9 provisions, 7 points in best case scenario (and that doesn't change, wether the skulls are used or not). How is that overpowered?
Saskia at 9 provisions, has a countdown of 4 or less, so can at least be used twice (not even best case scenario). Results in 9 provisions, 9 points.
Isengrimm at 9 provisions, boosts all elven units and gets a boost per played elven unit. Best case scenario as for Harald: 13 points.
Nenneke, 9 provisions, 9 points
Hubert Rejk, 9 provisions, I've personally seen him at 27 points, but I'm sure it gets even higher
Ves, 9 provisions, 7 points plus zeal for another unit
Serrit, 9 provisions, best case scenario as for Harald 10 points, worst case still 8 points.
Shilard, 9 provisions, best case scenario 13 points
Katakan, 9 provisions, 8 points no matter what
Glustyworp, 9 provisions, is on average at 13 points

But Harald is op?

Same goes for Vildkaarl. 5 + 7 points in best case scenario only, healing depends on what is on the board. Best case scenario would be a 1 point unit, that would give him another 11 for a total of 23 points. Less than Hubert, and he can only heal if damaged. So normal scenario is just 12 points, less than Hubert, Shilard, Glustyworp. But Vildkaarl is op?

I often see that when it is about SK cards, the effort needed to get the points is neglected. For example, Svalblod is effectively boosting by 1 per turn, and only if there's allied units to feed. That's for 5 provisions. Magne division is also boosting by 1 per turn, and only if no allied unit on the same row. That's for 4 provisions.

And Hjalmar was the biggest surprise to see mentioned here. "cheap 7 points 5 provisions from graveyard" seems to be referring to Disgraced Brawler. So let's see: Hjalmar at 10 provisions, DB at 5 = 15 provisions. Hjalmar 3 points + DB 7 points = 10 points. 10 points for 15 provisions, and that's called cheap?

But I understand. It is not about facts, more about the feeling players have, when facing those cards. But that's, as I already said, subjective.

Here's a video. It shows what I also experienced many times when playing Svalblod against Nilfgaard (and my deck is stronger than the one in the video, but that is a subjective statement as well)

 

[mzeebra]

And Hjalmar was the biggest surprise to see mentioned here. "cheap 7 points 5 provisions from graveyard" seems to be referring to Disgraced Brawler. So let's see: Hjalmar at 10 provisions, DB at 5 = 15 provisions. Hjalmar 3 points + DB 7 points = 10 points. 10 points for 15 provisions, and that's called cheap?

I've said it before, I have nothing against Hjalmar. But using Disgraced Brawler with Hjalmar is too cheap. Disgraced Brawler is bad, really. Normally I have to waste a 6 provision card to get rid of him, otherwise he is just a too big card on the board that puts too many points on the tablet and YET ANOTHER tall unit for Skellige. It's too cheap, and it makes Hjalmar cheap indirectly. So what you are doing is basically putting up a 7 point body for 5 provisions (cheap) and in addition those same cheap 5 provisions feed Hjalmar a guaranteed 7 point damage.

Against alot of decks, a 7 point Hjalmar is plenty. But the price for that is way too low on the support side, which also on it's own provide too many points on the table. Unless you have a 1 point ping damage or some small control damage, this unit can also not be removed easily, despite no lock. Thus you have to waste a 6 provision thunder for example, which you desperately need to remove Svalblod priest, if you are lucky enough to have it at hand and can play it as soon as priest is placed on the board.

I personally don't think Harald is overpowered or anything like that.

 

[Guest 4361365]

For me, playing against SK is not fun at all. A worse experience than no unit deck was. One of the problems is that SK can remove several units while playing so many points. Harald, Skjall, Vabjorn, Hjalmar are examples faction releated.
Harald considered alone may not be a problem, but when played in the early rounds in combination with cards like Light Longship, can clear your side of the board without you being able to respond properly.
Furthermore, like Svalblod Totem (arguibly the best artifact in the game) Harald can make counterproductive for the opponent using effects that damage the row or hit units randomly. Harald is then played in combination with Svalblod Priest and while you try to put some points on the board the difference begins to become substantial. I think it should have higher provisions cost or even better a bloodthirst condition to spawn skulls.
I have nothing to say against Skjall or Vabjorn but Hjalmar is too strong considering how easy it is to increase his power with bronze cards like Disgraced Brawler. Perhaps a solution could be to give him order or instead of banish a unit from the graveyard, banish it from the deck.
Another problem with SK, right now, are that bronze cards are way to strong compared to cards of the other factions. Priest is broken. Light Longship is a 5 for 5 with potential removal. Svalblod Butcher is another one.
Heymaey Protector along with Herald, Totem, Vildkaarl and Arnvald allows SK to transform its weakness into strength. From damage to itself SK gains boost or simply deny its negative effects. I never saw this faction got disadvantage from self-damage.
I also think that Olaf is fine but Vidkaarl is not. Why its transformation should have the ability “Order: Destroy an allied unit, then Heal self”? Are 12 points not enough?
At the moment I see no weakness in playing SK, a way of playing that rewards you without exposing you to risks. Self-inflicted damage that could be a weakness exploited by other factions is nullify or it is turned into a boost. SK has too many ways to remove the opponent's units (without adding those provided by neutral cards) while playing so many points at the same time. Units which for the other factions are essential because points derive from the combos between several cards.
In changes to this faction I would like to see units with far fewer points but rewarded by bersekr status with effects other than boost.

 

[DRK3]

@tulamide Harald Houndsnout is a perfect example of a card that was balanced before, but indirectly got buffed by the addition of new cards (in this case, svalblod priest, svalblod butcher and the svalblod leader himself)

Before CC, you played Houndsnout, it would get instantly removed or locked, and you would be stuck with the skulls. Still, it provided 7points, and some "shielding", so it was ok. Now players dont even bother destroying Houndsnout because they know a svalblod priest (or two) is coming next, and those skulls will get destroyed one way or another.

The extra value that you're not counting from him is the "shielding" that was mentioned here - protecting against random damage for example, or denying value to a DW player using Manticore or Rotfiend.


Vildkaarl is 12pts for 9 provisions. You have to initially do 3 damage to him, so that adds up. But on top of that you have the ability to heal, just by consuming any unit (another way to destroy a Harald skull...). This ability should increase its provisions, but at the moment, it comes free, that's why Vildkaarl is OverPowered.

 

[mzeebra]

For me, playing against SK is not fun at all. A worse experience than no unit deck was. One of the problems is that SK can remove several units while playing so many points. Harald, Skjall, Vabjorn, Hjalmar are examples faction releated.
Harald considered alone may not be a problem, but when played in the early rounds in combination with cards like Light Longship, can clear your side of the board without you being able to respond properly.
Furthermore, like Svalblod Totem (arguibly the best artifact in the game) Harald can make counterproductive for the opponent using effects that damage the row or hit units randomly. Harald is then played in combination with Svalblod Priest and while you try to put some points on the board the difference begins to become substantial. I think it should have higher provisions cost or even better a bloodthirst condition to spawn skulls.
I have nothing to say against Skjall or Vabjorn but Hjalmar is too strong considering how easy it is to increase his power with bronze cards like Disgraced Brawler. Perhaps a solution could be to give him order or instead of banish a unit from the graveyard, banish it from the deck.
Another problem with SK, right now, are that bronze cards are way to strong compared to cards of the other factions. Priest is broken. Light Longship is a 5 for 5 with potential removal. Svalblod Butcher is another one.
Heymaey Protector along with Herald, Totem, Vildkaarl and Arnvald allows SK to transform its weakness into strength. From damage to itself SK gains boost or simply deny its negative effects. I never saw this faction got disadvantage from self-damage.
I also think that Olaf is fine but Vidkaarl is not. Why its transformation should have the ability “Order: Destroy an allied unit, then Heal self”? Are 12 points not enough?
At the moment I see no weakness in playing SK, a way of playing that rewards you without exposing you to risks. Self-inflicted damage that could be a weakness exploited by other factions is nullify or it is turned into a boost. SK has too many ways to remove the opponent's units (without adding those provided by neutral cards) while playing so many points at the same time. Units which for the other factions are essential because points derive from the combos between several cards.
In changes to this faction I would like to see units with far fewer points but rewarded by bersekr status with effects other than boost.

I disagree with many of these things. Skjall and Hjalmar first of all. Those are fine, but disgraced brawler is an issue with Hjalmar, so it need to be something else than a tall unit.
Self damage is fine, which is why Svalblod Priest should boost 1 instead of 2, because Skellige can absorb any damage that Svalblod does, and it will make people think and plan a bit more before they play Svalblod priest, to avoid eventually losing points, rather than just be an auto-play. And they need the right support too if it is 1 instead of two. For example Heymaey Protector. I think this would work out fine, in particular with something like Totem, Olaf etc.

12 points for Vildkarl is too much, so is his heal ability. There should be risks with playing Vildkarl, and if those risks want to be avoided, one should have to play/waste something like Knut. It would be a fair tradeoff. Maybe if he wants to stay at 12 points he should have doom. There is too much replay and "misuse" of large and unnecessary units in Skellige. I don't mind Jutta, but it has risks, and before it used to be the only tall unit for Skellige, alongside Olaf. Now there are so many tall units that you need 5 Geralts to deal with it, and they are often replayed because they are so overpowered.

Longship is fine, Harald is fine, Totem is fine. Those cards are not the ones that make Skellige imbalanced and overpowered.

 

[DRK3]

So, i've decided to make an Anti-Svalblod deck, since it's giving me and other players so much trouble.

Im using Arnjolf, mostly because i have already done most SK Mastery Contracts, and he works well destroying big units.

So, now all of a sudden, around 15 games and not a single svalblod. Even though they were on casual, its pretty weird.

But i gotta say, it works really well vs other SK decks too. Why? Cuz i got Angouleme that gets a 2nd, OP Svalblod Totem guaranteed, with an added body of 3. Also, it seems all SC players run artefact removal, but not a single SK does, so im also using Summoning Circle, for my "gran finale".

 

[tulamide]

So, now all of a sudden, around 15 games and not a single svalblod. Even though they were on casual, its pretty weird.

That's what we all experience. As soon as you change your deck to react to a certain deck, all of a sudden it doesn't appear anymore. Instead you will face decks that can handle your changes better.

It's funny, I play for ST and try to finish the "win with each of 4 leaders" quest. Played a deck without tall removal, 9 times in a row I faced a Glustyworp deck. So changed to tall removal. NR machine deck 5 times in a row. Switched to lock units. So far 4 decks without a single order unit. Needless to say that after 20 matches I only have 2 of the leaders done...

 

[Breli]

I am usually not one to chime in here with "nerf this and op that" but how one can seriously argue that Skellige is not completely broken is beyond me.

I will stop playing ranked now. At least in casual I can insta forfeit and dont have to waste my time with eternal boredom.