Wheel of fortune is bad for the game

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Damage an enemy unit by a random amount between 1 and 10........??

At this point why don't we just bring back all of the old create cards as well. What was the point of homecoming? Maybe we can post what they told us yet again in this thread so we can really meditate on what homecoming was supposed to be. I really don't get what the intentions of the devs are at this point other than that they don't seem to care anymore. Maybe they are running out of ideas so RNG cards sound appealing to them?

I'm ready for Homecoming 2.0. Scrap this mess and start over. I'll be here waiting for a good game like I have been since the beginning.
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For those interested this was in the open letter announcing homecoming April of last year. Cards like this do not fit what was told to us.

  • Focusing on skill and player agency
We heard you discussing the “Create” mechanic. At first, we thought it would be an interesting addition to the game, but — as time passed — we realized that this form of wide RNG is not something that fits our focus on player skill. We will be extra careful with these types of mechanics in the redesign process. That said, if we manage to find some cards interesting enough to include, but ‘too crazy for Ranked’, they will still have their place in Arena and Casual Mode.
 
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I'm just like you, been waiting for Gwent to improve for so long now. I'm really doubting this version of Gwent will ever be better than pre-Midwinter though.

It's kind of tragic too, all these people who started after Homecoming think Beta players are just terrible people who can't stop complaining. They just don't understand that we were them 1.5 years ago... wanting to support CDPR and see the game grow. But the game hasn't grown, the playerbase has shrunk so much because CDPR just keeps alienating players by stripping the strategy out of Gwent. I honestly feel betrayed having spent money on a game they just completely discarded for... this.
 
I'm just like you, been waiting for Gwent to improve for so long now. I'm really doubting this version of Gwent will ever be better than pre-Midwinter though.

It's kind of tragic too, all these people who started after Homecoming think Beta players are just terrible people who can't stop complaining. They just don't understand that we were them 1.5 years ago... wanting to support CDPR and see the game grow. But the game hasn't grown, the playerbase has shrunk so much because CDPR just keeps alienating players by stripping the strategy out of Gwent. I honestly feel betrayed having spent money on a game they just completely discarded for... this.

I'm starting to get annoyed at how much time I have spent playing and expecting it to turn into something special. This might be the patch that sends me into another long break and then check back later.
 
In my opinion they should rework this card, and cards like Gascon. For 5 provisions and crime synergy people might even play Wheel of Fortune!

I think the devs care, but underestimate the negative impact of such cards. Losing a 10 point unit to something like: Bribery / Aguara:True Form -> Wheel of Fortune can make you extra salty.

It's kind of tragic too, all these people who started after Homecoming think Beta players are just terrible people who can't stop complaining.

True. I keep complaining, as I liked old Gwent better than the current version. However, I reckon that Homecoming is better than any other cardgame on the market and that compared to old Gwent it has some nice addition (like the Reward Books). :shrug:
 
For 5 provisions and crime synergy people might even play Wheel of Fortune!
I doubt that the card is playable at all. The thing is compared to Gascon you won't always get the value it rolls, but you first have to select a target. For example if you aim it at a 7 points card, you get an average value of 4,9 points out of it. This means your enemy first has to have an 8 points card or you will loose value on average. And furthermore damage special cards are normally played to disrupt the enemy, which won't either happen with this card in most cases, or you will loose quite a lot of value.

In the end this card will stay a meme as much as Gascon and Blaviken Musicians, which is a bit sad, but doesn't hurt the game much.
 
I doubt that the card is playable at all. The thing is compared to Gascon you won't always get the value it rolls, but you first have to select a target. For example if you aim it at a 7 points card, you get an average value of 4,9 points out of it. This means your enemy first has to have an 8 points card or you will loose value on average. And furthermore damage special cards are normally played to disrupt the enemy, which won't either happen with this card in most cases, or you will loose quite a lot of value.

In the end this card will stay a meme as much as Gascon and Blaviken Musicians, which is a bit sad, but doesn't hurt the game much.

I am confident it will see play just because it's a crime and potential removal.
 
I doubt that the card is playable at all. The thing is compared to Gascon you won't always get the value it rolls, but you first have to select a target. For example if you aim it at a 7 points card, you get an average value of 4,9 points out of it. This means your enemy first has to have an 8 points card or you will loose value on average. And furthermore damage special cards are normally played to disrupt the enemy, which won't either happen with this card in most cases, or you will loose quite a lot of value.

In the end this card will stay a meme as much as Gascon and Blaviken Musicians, which is a bit sad, but doesn't hurt the game much.

I do not believe that is the point, sadly.

Pretend you go to a bookstore and pick up the first book in a trilogy. Let's say you read the book every day for an hour a night. You find it's quite enjoyable. Suppose you finish the book and decide to pick up the second book of the trilogy. You go through an identical routine, an hour a night. Suppose you find the second book is quite terrible. Since you enjoyed the first book so much you decide to press through. You move on to the third book and find, much like the second, it's quite terrible. You decide to express your displeasure to the author via a clear, polite critique. The author decides to write another trilogy, completely different from the first. They respond back and claim it's going to be really good and they learned from their mistakes, in part due to your critique, and you should consider buying it when it's finished.

Months go by.... The author claims the next trilogy is complete. You can barely contain your excitement. You rush to the bookstore to pick it up. You get to the bookstore, ask for the second set of books. Whoever works at the bookstore goes to pick out the books for you. As they return you notice something in their hands. Surely it's the next trilogy. Oh boy. They hand you the books and you return home. The day goes by and it's now your routine reading time. You pull out the first book and inspect the cover. You notice the cover is remarkable. Then you open it. Unfortunately, it's not what you expected. It's random gibberish scribbled all over each and every page. Words in random places, weird shapes everywhere. There is no rhyme or reason to the madness. Upon inspecting the second and third books it's more of the same.

Let me ask you this..... Would you read through the gibberish within the second set of books to express "loyalty" to the author? Would you have the same excitement for their future works? Would you even consider reading anything else from that author? I'm going to guess the answer is no across the board.

The point is CDPR made a spectacle out of HC when the game was still in OB. They made a lot of promises. Then they release cards like.... this... It turns out all of those promises, beyond the graphical/UI related "improvements", were complete horseshit. That is why people are irritated, annoyed, upset and frustrated.

It would be one thing to fail at delivering a promise while making an effort to do so. In that case they tried and just dropped the ball. Damaging an enemy by a random amount between 1 and 10 isn't that, at all. It's crystal clear such a card is the polar opposite of what was said. There is zero chance it exists due to making an effort and dropping the ball. This means it was created intentionally. Let that soak in for a minute.
 

Guest 4305932

Guest
Tbh if you are overreacting in such way for 1 cards out of 90 then yes, a break could be useful.
 
Tbh if you are overreacting in such way for 1 cards out of 90 then yes, a break could be useful.

I wish this issue was simply one card. If it was I would be like "Hey CDPR this game is doing so well, whats with this one strange RNG based card?". The real issue is that homecomings design has been not going well from the get go. Artifacts were clearly a bad choice but the devs seem fine with it. Archetypes are hardly what was promised, NG was a mess with RNG cards, then it was redesigned and still a boring faction. Cards that are obviously too weak or too bad to play are just sitting in the game without any changes, when will "destroy a resilient unit" EVER be a good attribute? Then they occasionally add more RNG cards. Why is Gascon in the game? What the hell were they thinking with musicians of blaviken? I saw the new card that gives you a variance of coins by two and I rolled my eyes and let it go. When I saw the last one with a variance of 1-10 it's time to make another thread. You can think I am overreacting if you want but this isn't about one card. It's pretty clear to me the devs just want to throw cards at the game to make what money they can make. I'm still waiting for them to design a good and complete version of Gwent.
 

Guest 4305932

Guest
So it's about 3 cards? (Gascon, blaviken and wheel of fortune) . As you said they reworked RNG when it was too much (Reveal) and while everyone can see Whell of fortune is pure RNG, "NG is boring" is not an objective statesment" so it has no value. Plus you were talking about RNG, i don't understand why your are putting Artifacts in, it just makes your first argument weak.
 
High rng cards are never good. Most of the Syndicate cards looks pretty strong. Do the other factions stand a chance? :)
 
... It's pretty clear to me the devs just want to throw cards at the game...
This became clear when HC hit. There were tons of promises before that the community absolutely despise cards with such mechanics and they will be eliminated from the game. One year later they are releasing basically the same cards all over again. I think this is more irritating than the cards themselves. The dev team ALWAYS makes promises and ALWAYS fails to keep them. That's why a lot of us skeptical and/or cynical when they reveal something. They've burned our trust. Over and over again.
 
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So it's about 3 cards? (Gascon, blaviken and wheel of fortune) . As you said they reworked RNG when it was too much (Reveal) and while everyone can see Whell of fortune is pure RNG, "NG is boring" is not an objective statesment" so it has no value. Plus you were talking about RNG, i don't understand why your are putting Artifacts in, it just makes your first argument weak.

Well first off if you read the statement in that open letter about homecoming in regards to focusing on player skill and moving away from RNG then why are there ANY RNG cards in the game? Since homecoming started there has been quite a few more than 3 of those cards. Those are just the three worst and most obvious offenders. You claimed that I was overreacting about one card and I'm explaining that this isn't just about one card. It's about RNG, artifacts, archetypes, and bad cards in general. It's about wanting to know when Gwent will be in a complete and good state as opposed to what we have now. I would have preferred that they fix the current game than just throw in a whole new faction and along with it more RNG cards which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence either.

NG is boring is largely subjective but I see the sentiment being supported in this forum. NG is a lot of removal and lock spam and not much more than that. It has a core set of cards that is used in most decks. Yeah I find it boring and I used NG to get to rank 0. I can't think of a single other deck I would like to play with NG right now. But hey that's just me.
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This became clear when HC hit. There were tons of promises before that the community absolutely despise cards with such mechanics and they will be eliminated from the game. One year later they are releasing basically the same cards all over again. I think this is more irritating than the cards themselves. The dev team ALWAYS makes promises and ALWAYS fails to keep them. Thus a lot of us skeptical and/or cynical when they reveal something. They've burned our trust. Over and over again.

I recall a few times where they talk about their clear vision for the game and then shortly later they back track and change everything. I've been waiting since day one of closed beta for them to deliver on a clear vision for this game. I still don't see it.
 
... NG is boring...
And there were days when NG was by far the most diverse faction, giving you at least 3 SOLID decks to climb with every season. Than HC hit. With the promises of no more RNG. And they'd made the ENTIRE Reveal Archetype absolute RNG fiesta. And after that they had to nerf it and after that absolutely rework it, to the point when it is no more.

Backtrack this if you want and you'll clearly see time after time again how the devs are "listening" to the community and how it ALWAYS ends in Gwent when adding such mechanics, despite the "listening" part.
 

Guest 4305932

Guest
Well first off if you read the statement in that open letter about homecoming in regards to focusing on player skill and moving away from RNG then why are there ANY RNG cards in the game? Since homecoming started there has been quite a few more than 3 of those cards. Those are just the three worst and most obvious offenders. You claimed that I was overreacting about one card and I'm explaining that this isn't just about one card. It's about RNG, artifacts, archetypes, and bad cards in general. It's about wanting to know when Gwent will be in a complete and good state as opposed to what we have now. I would have preferred that they fix the current game than just throw in a whole new faction and along with it more RNG cards which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence either.

NG is boring is largely subjective but I see the sentiment being supported in this forum. NG is a lot of removal and lock spam and not much more than that. It has a core set of cards that is used in most decks. Yeah I find it boring and I used NG to get to rank 0. I can't think of a single other deck I would like to play with NG right now. But hey that's just me.
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I recall a few times where they talk about their clear vision for the game and then shortly later they back track and change everything. I've been waiting since day one of closed beta for them to deliver on a clear vision for this game. I still don't see it.



Sorry but this "complete and good state" you are talking about can exist only in your head. Your ideal Gwent will never be a thing, because everyone have his ideal Gwent (mine is without skellige, just to say). Saying that the devs don't care anymore because they are not satisfying your vision of the game seems a bit childish to be honest. And no, the existence of cards like Gascon or Wheel of fortune doesn't compromise their statement about player skill or you are really trying to say that gwent is a game of luck? Because, if so, your are not telling the truth.
 

Raunbjorn

Guest
Agree with the posts above. I know it must be annoying for newer players to hear about how cool premidwinter Gwent was but I'm sure most of them would agree if they played it themselves. Honestly, I don't have faith in the devs making Gwent great again but I still support the game because it's still the best out there(!) and because I like the core gameplay. I just wished they would either revert the changes or at least remove the whole order mechanic for a faster paced Gwent. It'll probably never happen though unless the game gets completely abandon by the players and the devs then would try one last time to make the game a financial succes by bringing Gwent back to its former glory - the whole nostalgia thing is already popular in other games just look at the Warcraft franchise.

And please don't tell me about how unbalanced beta was. I prefer having "fun" rather than a completely balanced experience just like I prefer WoW Classic compared newer versions.
 
@StrykerxS77x
You and few others who still posting here and showing care are only reason why I still checking forum, there is a dead race between reddit or this board white (or other color) knights who rush to burry any different opinion except pure praising, that's why decided to log again and post this, really hat off to you guys because most of the players simple lost hope and don't want even bother anymore with posting, I can't blame them for sure....


For a long time CDPR DON'T know what to do with Gwent at all, they said so much things in past 2 years and everything turned out to be a simple lie including '' Focusing on skill and player agency '' so there is no reason to bother with anything they saying, they ignoring community for a long time and see what a great game we have now.....

Ladder and arena full of bots, rigged and manipulated matchmaking more then ever, skill in this game is called RNG, unbalanced and gray factions, balancing game is all about nerf and sending cards into oblivion, gameplay is all about ping, lock or remove, having fun or playing something unique is removed from game, only what we have is pure mess and new unfinished expansion will not solve core problems at all.....

On top of all this we got '' Special premium pre-order packs '' but even if you give us money not all cards will be premium until end of July.....maybe.....hopefully......:facepalm:

Just check any media platform and you will see in what state is Gwent right now and how much players are active, without pumpkin average is 500 peoples on twich and you really need amazing skills to have lower audience then fo76 nuclear winter, but nothing what I wrote above is valid, everything is pure bias, game is amazing and that's why so much peoples left, we are minor jesters who don't have anything better to do in life except talk nonsense about such a great game.....

I know this post will be removed very fast so one more time, hat off from old bastard to you guys who still trying and have faith.....
 
Sorry but this "complete and good state" you are talking about can exist only in your head. Your ideal Gwent will never be a thing, because everyone have his ideal Gwent (mine is without skellige, just to say). Saying that the devs don't care anymore because they are not satisfying your vision of the game seems a bit childish to be honest. And no, the existence of cards like Gascon or Wheel of fortune doesn't compromise their statement about player skill or you are really trying to say that gwent is a game of luck? Because, if so, your are not telling the truth.

You don't appear to even be responding to my arguments. The devs don't appear to be listening because they aren't fixing the current issues in the game most of which I would argue are very objective. My ideal Gwent is one that has a large variety of balanced cards to choose from with a many strong archetypes to choose from in each faction. I do not see that in the current game and these are things I think every player would agree are good goals.

This latest RNG card is the latest example of a lack of progress. Why do the devs claim to agree that RNG cards are bad and then homecoming hits and they add more, then they said OOPS lets remove some of those, AND THEN they add more. That's a big problem IMO. The game won't progress when the devs can't agree on a clear vision for the game. Do they want these RNG heavy cards or not?

Gwent is a game that uses both luck and skill. It needs to focus as much on skill as possible for many reasons. One being that RNG is already fused into the game with card draw, coin flip, and match ups. If you add more RNG the game will eventually feel like luck is too much of a factor. This came to a head in the midwinter patch with create cards and you saw the end result. I don't see how adding these cards doesn't compromise what they said to us in that letter. Playing a card and then crossing your fingers hoping for a good roll is luck and not skill. Based on what they said in that letter I would expect this card to be banned from ranked play.

This game is supposed to be an e-sport game. It's supposed to be competitive so adding luck based cards is definitely counter to that goal.
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@StrykerxS77x
You and few others who still posting here and showing care are only reason why I still checking forum, there is a dead race between reddit or this board white (or other color) knights who rush to burry any different opinion except pure praising, that's why decided to log again and post this, really hat off to you guys because most of the players simple lost hope and don't want even bother anymore with posting, I can't blame them for sure....


For a long time CDPR DON'T know what to do with Gwent at all, they said so much things in past 2 years and everything turned out to be a simple lie including '' Focusing on skill and player agency '' so there is no reason to bother with anything they saying, they ignoring community for a long time and see what a great game we have now.....

Ladder and arena full of bots, rigged and manipulated matchmaking more then ever, skill in this game is called RNG, unbalanced and gray factions, balancing game is all about nerf and sending cards into oblivion, gameplay is all about ping, lock or remove, having fun or playing something unique is removed from game, only what we have is pure mess and new unfinished expansion will not solve core problems at all.....

On top of all this we got '' Special premium pre-order packs '' but even if you give us money not all cards will be premium until end of July.....maybe.....hopefully......:facepalm:

Just check any media platform and you will see in what state is Gwent right now and how much players are active, without pumpkin average is 500 peoples on twich and you really need amazing skills to have lower audience then fo76 nuclear winter, but nothing what I wrote above is valid, everything is pure bias, game is amazing and that's why so much peoples left, we are minor jesters who don't have anything better to do in life except talk nonsense about such a great game.....

I know this post will be removed very fast so one more time, hat off from old bastard to you guys who still trying and have faith.....

Thanks. I'm just going to keep giving my genuine opinion. This is the first card game I ever played and I fell in love with it. I love getting my hand and choosing my cards and making the choices. It's because I love it that I continue to play and try to do what I can to influence it.
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Why is there a link to youtube video just to show us what card are you talking about?

You are asking why I linked to the video showing off the card?

I thought people who haven't seen it might want to see it themselves.
 
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Guest 4305932

Guest
You don't appear to even be responding to my arguments. The devs don't appear to be listening because they aren't fixing the current issues in the game most of which I would argue are very objective. My ideal Gwent is one that has a large variety of balanced cards to choose from with a many strong archetypes to choose from in each faction. I do not see that in the current game and these are things I think every player would agree are good goals.

This latest RNG card is the latest example of a lack of progress. Why do the devs claim to agree that RNG cards are bad and then homecoming hits and they add more, then they said OOPS lets remove some of those, AND THEN they add more. That's a big problem IMO. The game won't progress when the devs can't agree on a clear vision for the game. Do they want these RNG heavy cards or not?

Gwent is a game that uses both luck and skill. It needs to focus as much on skill as possible for many reasons. One being that RNG is already fused into the game with card draw, coin flip, and match ups. If you add more RNG the game will eventually feel like luck is too much of a factor. This came to a head in the midwinter patch with create cards and you saw the end result. I don't see how adding these cards doesn't compromise what they said to us in that letter. Playing a card and then crossing your fingers hoping for a good roll is luck and not skill. Based on what they said in that letter I would expect this card to be banned from ranked play.

This game is supposed to be an e-sport game. It's supposed to be competitive so adding luck based cards is definitely counter to that goal.

How can you say i'm not responding to your arguments? You arguments is that the dev don't care because they have added ONE FUCKING RNG CARD in a 90+ cards expansion and then you started barking about artifact and archetypes and "Ng Is BoRiNg" when the weakness of your arguments has been called out. Your argument is not "cards like this are unnecessary", which i agree with. You are just yelling "ThEy DoNt CaRe" with a bit of oldschool "bEtA WaS BeTtEt". Lack of progress? Have you see the rest of the fucking expansion? Or are you too focused on the speck?


"we realized that this form of wide RNG is not something that fits our focus on player skill." Surprise! There is no form of wide RNG in this expansion, so no, Weel of Fortune compromise nothing. There's nothing comparable to the Create mechanic, there's ONE RNG card.
 
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