Personal opinion: Ardal and Usurper issues

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Been running into this a lot; Arfal and Usurper players [...] who cram as mich seize and removal special cards in their deck as possible.

I get why, DJ is a broken leader and needs to be addressed but imo, Ardal and Usurper are just as bad in different ways.

Ardal is unitless 2.0. Thematically, it's probably the most obnoxious deck out there due to promoting mass special cards in conjunction with their ballista and friends.

Personally my fix for the issue would be to change Ardal to this:

Order: Seize an enemy unit with 3 or less power. This value is increased by 1 for every 4 unit cards in your starting deck.

This decouples the unitless aspect from Ardal and thus removes his problematic theme of unitless 2.0

Usurper has no fix and is entirely a symptom of DJ being overpowered.

Personally I think DJ should have his charges capped at 5 or limited to using 1 charge per turn. Maybe making Igor the Hook Insanity cost 6 power, up from 5 if that's not enough.

I'm sure others see things differently and that's okay! This is what I experience at rank 2.

(Edit: Sild)
 
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I just find it funny that everyone was screaming NG would be dead when the patch notes came out, yet now everyone is playing it. I run into way more NG than NR.

Personally my fix for the issue would be to change Ardal to this:

Order: Seize an enemy unit with 3 or less power. This value is increased by 1 for every 4 unit cards in your starting deck.
this would be super insane and way more obnoxious lol. it could end up as a seize a unit with 9 power and that in return would intensify no unit decks all the more to counter that leader. maybe "for every spy" would be better. and fit to the lore as well.

btw I'm not saying ardal should be changed. I personally hate to play against him but I suppose NG is designed to be very uncomfortable to play against.
 
I just find it funny that everyone was screaming NG would be dead when the patch notes came out, yet now everyone is playing it. I run into way more NG than NR.


this would be super insane and way more obnoxious lol. it could end up as a seize a unit with 9 power and that in return would intensify no unit decks all the more to counter that leader. maybe "for every spy" would be better. and fit to the lore as well.

btw I'm not saying ardal should be changed. I personally hate to play against him but I suppose NG is designed to be very uncomfortable to play against.

This is almost exactly the point people were making in the Usurper thread a while ago. NG says you're just playing vanilla creatures all game. That's not very fun, but it sure as hell stops NR craziness.
 
I just find it funny that everyone was screaming NG would be dead when the patch notes came out, yet now everyone is playing it. I run into way more NG than NR.


this would be super insane and way more obnoxious lol. it could end up as a seize a unit with 9 power and that in return would intensify no unit decks all the more to counter that leader. maybe "for every spy" would be better. and fit to the lore as well.

btw I'm not saying ardal should be changed. I personally hate to play against him but I suppose NG is designed to be very uncomfortable to play against.


If that's too much, just change it from all units to units with orders or something similar.

Uncomfortable is one thing but Ardal is several steps beyond that. His gameplay is the exact same as unitless pre nerf and can run more removal than you have important units with ease.

Ursurper imo is uncomfortable to play vs but because of the low provision, it balances out.

[...]

For starters DJ is overpowered and needs a significant nerf. He's in emergency balance patch territory vs most decks.

2nd, certain playstyles are attracting a toxic [playstyle] which imo indicates that, in this instance, Ardal is not healthy for the game in it's current iteration [...].

3rd is that [...] players resort to Usurper when the meta just wrecks them.

Point 2 and 3 are a design/social issue and less of a balance issue whereas point 1 was the catalyst for points 2 and 3 while being a severe balance issue.

Point 2 resembles the problem CDPR had with Unitless decks which is a huge part of my opinion as to why Ardal is not even close to healthy for the game as is.

[Edited for tone and content -- SigilFey]
 
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[...]
Ardal is unitless 2.0 and while that is within the parameters of the game as intended from a design standpoint it's something CDPR doesn't want in the game unless they've reversed their opinion on unitless decks.

[Edited -- SigilFey]
 
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Ardal is unitless 2.0 and while that is within the parameters of the game as intended from a design standpoint it's something CDPR doesn't want in the game unless they've reversed their opinion on unitless decks.

Unitless decks are no longer possible. You can only go like half unitless which probably isn't that strong.

Your last thread was shut down for doing the same thing. You are trying to connect actual griefing to people who play NG and it's really not appropriate.
 
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I disagree with almost everything you said but this one:
Personally I think DJ should have his charges capped at 5 or limited to using 1 charge per turn. Maybe making Igor the Hook Insanity cost 6 power, up from 5 if that's not enough..
Yesterday I was thinking the same. DJ should simply have a cap of 5 charges. This way, he would have to spend in order to gain. The other problem is not Townsfolk but Igor. He should be something like: Fee +1, Power +1, Prov +1. Because paying 5 fee for a card that's 6 prov is just cheap.
 
The only card in an Ardal deck I think that is problematic is Hefty Helge, because it is the only charge engine that remained at 2 unconditional value per charge. So, if Ardal plays against NR and seizes or creates any card that gives you charges, he will get insane value out of it.
His full unit less approach is much less of a problem due to the increased base power and therefore it being much easier to keep units sticking on the board. And as soon as he isn't able to remove everything anymore, he has already lost.
 
I don't see playing Ardal decks as something like griefing. I do agree that it's still too easy to play loads of special cards and artifacts. There is still more focus needed on units and this could be solved by letting units be a prerequisite (like tutoring or crew) for using specials cards and artifacts.

Usurper's ability is irritating, fun-reducing, uncounterable and unfair for the opponent. Those are quite some griefing aspects right there, so it's not surprising that a lot of players see playing Usurper as some sort of griefing. The only counter-argument is that Usurper is a legit leader, but that does in no way justify the bad feeling Usurper gives to the opponent. Not able to construct a good deck and play it smart to win? OP decks and leaders because of a terribly unbalanced update? Let's pick Usurper for mindless automatic shutdown of the opponent's leader and deck synergies. In my opinion, CDPR is promoting a truly wrong mentality with this leader ability.
 
Usurper and Ardal are fine.

I'm playing with a DJ Syndicate deck and have lost to Nilfgaard twice, and neither time the opponent was using either of those leaders.

I've played Usurper heaps of times, sure he's annoying but how many other annoying cards are out there that are annoying?? He's just part of NG as a faction, it's not big deal.

You can't just tar all players with the same brush just because they use certain leaders that have mechanics you personally don't like.
 
Ardal lacks good proactive tactics, that's why he plays a lot of removal and you feel frustrating to play against him.
 
Ardal is probably my favourite leader, the only reason I don't play him after recent buffs is that I already completed his mastership contract months ago. It's pleasing to see that he finally received some love from devs.
 
Of course Ursurper is popular since it is the only leader they have to bring out their townsfolk early against and at base power and then it gets often removed.

Ardal does nothing against townsfolk.
Assassination and Muzzle do not work except they have some machines on the board with charges but those get usually removed before by ewald borsodi, moreelse or philippa.

Treason could be helpful but probably it is not enough points and usually they copy their townsfolk at the last turn anyway and there is no chance to play treason.
A lacerate which is supposed to be a row stacking punishment is completely useless of course.
Igor is just another ridiculous card they introduced.
 
I played all day today, and have to agree. Ardal and Usurper are every other match. I wouldn't say grief, but Usurper is a horrible idea for balance no matter how you look at it. Not saying he can't be beaten, but the ability to go into a match knowing your strategy which basically never changes versus being the person to queue into it is a nightmare, this coming from playing him through ladder and in pro rank. He's always the same, every game. You can call out what he's going to do before he does it but you also know that you can't not play what would be correct, because either way it won't matter, and in a way it becomes point slam versus point slam and who winds up with the better ending hand. The balance of this patch is so poor, and I won't go and say it's the worst I've seen yet but damn it's pretty bad. I've not queued into more than a handful of unique decks since the patch dropped, it's all been one of about five cookie cutters. Sometimes I sit back and wonder why Gwent isn't more popular, then I'm reminded of their Blizzard like balancing skills.
 
Usurper and Ardal are fine.

I'm playing with a DJ Syndicate deck and have lost to Nilfgaard twice, and neither time the opponent was using either of those leaders.
Usurper is definitely not fine. There are enough topics on this forum clearly showing that he is not fine. Ignoring arguments and simply stating that he's fine makes no sense.

Can you tell how you lost with DJ vs. NG (not being Ardal or Usurper)? I cannot imagine anything other than some really bad RNG/card draws or playing DJ without the crazy combo pieces.
 

Sild

Ex-moderator
Discussing decks and cards is fine, different opinions on them whether positive or negative are welcomed as long as they're constructive. What isn't allowed is accusing people of being griefers - or using this derogatory term to make a point, even if not directly describing a person but an action - by using certain cards or decks. Don't do that, it never ends well and is a sure way of drawing moderator attention and subsequent penalties.

If you wish to further participate in this discussion, avoid using such derogatory statements or more drastic action will be taken without prior notice, besides this one.
 
Then we find that there will be no change in Dijkstra or Igor's abilities, at least there is nothing programmed now (not even a one-round count for Igor).

Before we had a quick Dettlaff fix and it was nowhere near the problem we are seeing today in the finish line, where with two cards our opponent can score over 60 points and even more ... being impossible in almost every match to deal with .. . Not even Sihil comes close to the current situation!

I understand that there may be reasons, but if the vast majority of people are showing their discontent is why something is not right, and if this holds, it only pushes people away ... even more new players ...

Today we have a goal that we need to think not creatively, but only if we want to play how to defeat Dijkstra and make us use the Usurper or other tactics.

We are at the beginning of the month, it seems to me a very bad vision for the game Usurper appearing in several matches, harming everyone, because if I do not use Dijkstra, I am also harmed ...

I really hope the CD is seeing how much messages are popping up about this current goal and how negative this is for the game ...

I would like to know your opinion about this current situation, why it is demotivating ...
 
If players have such specific and strong negative feelings towards Usurper's ability, then it's pretty obvious that something must be wrong with that ability. Looking specifically at the aspects of the ability, I would say that these reactions, although (too) blunt, are quite understandable and can certainly be true for some Usurper players. We should be able to have a discussion about that. "Fun" fact/observation: I more often do not get a GG when winning against Usurper than against other leaders.
 
In my opinion, Usurper is not interesting, he's not aligned with the communicated vision of stimulating leader-deck synergies and his ability is blatantly unbalanced, simply because it can never be balanced as it depends on the opponent's leader. But Usurper does what he is supposed to do: Keep people playing in an unbalanced game. Instead of people saying: "I'm not playing this game anymore against these ridiculous OP leaders and their decks, they pick Usurper and play on. Great, players are needed right? Keep playing! Usurper's rise is the ultimate proof that something is quite wrong and it's making the game even worse.
 
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