Suggestion: How to make rows really matter

[Archan6el]

Rows should matter. After all, we were promised that rows would matter more if we went from 3 rows to 2 (an explanation that doesn't make any sense to me at all). Unfortunately, rows still don't matter much, other than having only 2 rows creating the possibility to have ridiculously OP row damage effects. With patch 3.1, it has been communicated that more cards will become row-restricted. I've just seen it: Cyclops' ability is now restricted to the Melee row, while Wyvern only does damage on the Ranged row. Does this make rows matter more? No, it doesn't. It simply limits card placement and friendly unit interactions, because you don't want to lose the ability (points) of a card when you play it. Instead of creating (again another binary) row-restriction mechanic for a single ability, why not give units different abilities for different rows? That would truly make rows matter. Something interesting for example, Cyclops throwing a unit from Melee could hit an enemy unit on the Melee row by the strength of the thrown unit, and hit an enemy on the Range row for half the strength if the enemy unit on the Melee row was killed (Deathblow, imagine: smashing through the Melee row with force from close up). Throwing from the Range row, Cyclops does not have a Deathblow effect. Now the decision becomes more tactical, depending on the situation. You can go for direct more points if possible playing on Melee, or perhaps you play Ranged because you expect row damage or you need to kill a big engine throwing a big unit from your Ranged row. There can be so many interesting abilities with two rows (three even more), but instead some cards now simply get single, (binary) row-restricted abilities. C'mon, let the creativity flow for truly strategic choices in card placement on the different rows!

 

[croloris]

So in short, you want more cards like Forest Whisper (poison/shield dryad) and Battering Ram.

The main issue you are dealing with is card space. This game wants to go mobile, and having that much text on a card is unreasonable for mobile platforms.

People like to read well spaced, concise text. Originally, all the cards were 2 sentences (50 chars)or less. Newer Gwent cards limit themselves to 3 sentences (75 characters) or less. The exception is Shoop, who is a meta game unto himself.

Battering Ram could change from :

• "Order (Ranged): Move self to the melee row, then damage highest enemy unit by 3. Crew: Gain Zeal."
• to "Order (Ranged): Move self to the melee row, then damage highest enemy unit on the opponents melee row by 3. Deathblow: Damage the highest enemy unit on the opponents ranged row by 1. Crew: Gain Zeal."

so it actually acts like a D&D battering ram, but doing so just doubled the text for a circumstantial ability. It also broke also the bronzes doing 4 damage guideline (breaking this guideline is Cyclops' true power) and may need to adjust provisions later.

Variants are usually popular threads in other game forums I read. And I am sure if you have a good variant it will get some clicks, but in a game with 256 card changes in a patch, some people may just want stability.

 

[Archan6el]

So in short, you want more cards like Forest Whisper (poison/shield dryad) and Battering Ram.

The main issue you are dealing with is card space. This game wants to go mobile, and having that much text on a card is unreasonable for mobile platforms.

People like to read well spaced, concise text. Originally, all the cards were 2 sentences (50 chars)or less. Newer Gwent cards limit themselves to 3 sentences (75 characters) or less. The exception is Shoop, who is a meta game unto himself.

Battering Ram could change from :

• "Order (Ranged): Move self to the melee row, then damage highest enemy unit by 3. Crew: Gain Zeal."
• to "Order (Ranged): Move self to the melee row, then damage highest enemy unit on the opponents melee row by 3. Deathblow: Damage the highest enemy unit on the opponents ranged row by 1. Crew: Gain Zeal."

so it actually acts like a D&D battering ram, but doing so just doubled the text for a circumstantial ability. It also broke also the bronzes doing 4 damage guideline (breaking this guideline is Cyclops' true power) and may need to adjust provisions later.

Variants are usually popular threads in other game forums I read. And I am sure if you have a good variant it will get some clicks, but in a game with 256 card changes in a patch, some people may just want stability.

In summary, all I'm saying is to make rows matter, give units different abilities for different rows. Not making the game as interesting as it can be because of card space makes no sense to me. Space can be created and people will learn the cards.

 

[kothor]

I agree that rows should matter, however making each unit have 2 abilities would be way too complicated. I think however that there should be more effects that apply to specific rows, like for exemple the reinforced trebuchet that only hits random targets on the ranged row. We could for exemple make Lacerate a 4 or 5 provision card that only apply to melee and things like that. The second solution that I see is completely revamp the weather. I dont really know what it should be like, but I am sure that I am not the only one who feels that weather is a game mechanic that seems out of place, whereas it was one of the core mechanics in old gwent, when it reduced units to 1 point (but it would be a terrible idea to come back to that system of course, now that we have way more control options than we had).

 

[ElricVIII]

I agree that rows should matter, however making each unit have 2 abilities would be way too complicated. I think however that there should be more effects that apply to specific rows, like for exemple the reinforced trebuchet that only hits random targets on the ranged row. We could for exemple make Lacerate a 4 or 5 provision card that only apply to melee and things like that. The second solution that I see is completely revamp the weather. I dont really know what it should be like, but I am sure that I am not the only one who feels that weather is a game mechanic that seems out of place, whereas it was one of the core mechanics in old gwent, when it reduced units to 1 point (but it would be a terrible idea to come back to that system of course, now that we have way more control options than we had).

Those changes would serve to make having different rows meaningful (which is basically the same as now), but not actually give identity to the rows.

In order to give rows identities, there needs to be a tactical reason to play a normal card (e.g. - Elder Bear) on the ranged vs melee rows. Having played a bit of Thronebreaker before finding this, I really think armor could be the answer. If you balance units around gaining a certain amount of armor points on the ranged row while making units that benefit from being in the melee row more powerful, you could really differentiate the rows. Basically, you balance around the question: do I run that 7 point/5 provision unit that is melee locked, or do I run a 5 point/5 provision unit that gains armor in the ranged row?

Just wondering, did this game have armor and why was it removed? It seems like an elegant balance solution that's easier to fine-tune than shields.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

Just wondering, did this game have armor and why was it removed? It seems like an elegant balance solution that's easier to fine-tune than shields.

The game had armor in Beta, but didn't really utilize it in a meaningful way. Armor was mainly tied to the armor archetype, which revolved around removing armor from your units similar to how Roegner or Damned Sorceress are doing with Shields now. But due to that they got armor basically into a corner, because every card they gave armor automatically worked tons better with the armor archetype. And in the end, armor was never really used to protect anything at all, which removed the whole reason for armor to be in the game.
But maybe we will see it in a more meaningfull way back in the future.

And something similar to your idea of ranged row giving armor was suggested a couple of times during Beta.

Concerning how to make rows more matter, I would like to see more engine/order cards affecting only the opposite row, such that you have to set them up in the right way. Cyclops would be a good example in my opinion. If he had no row restriction, but would only the opposite row, while still needing an adjacent unit, it would make rows matter a lot more when playing with or against Cyclops.