Personal opinion: Ardal and Usurper issues

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Then there is no idea in doing it, especially because many beta players left exactly for this reason during the launch-phase of Homecoming.

I would rather see some crazy combos for every faction, than Usurpers played by those who did not find their place in the meta and would like to spoil fun for everyone else, because they have a problem with any particular deck.

And if you have problem with RNG, then ask yourself, whether it isnt RNG when you encounter Usurper which beats your deck that fully relies on synergies with your leader.

Crazy combos make everyone complain, just look on Reddit there are hundreds of users complaining about the state of the balancing.

The idea that only buffs can make the game attractive is a mistake, ask yourself why so many complain the game is unbalanced?

All leaders should be nerfed, their ability should not be able to create more than 6p difference then nobody will complain about Usurper and probably there only be a handful of people who will play him.
 
Crazy combos make everyone complain, just look on Reddit there are hundreds of users complaining about the state of the balancing.

The idea that only buffs can make the game attractive is a mistake, ask yourself why so many complain the game is unbalanced?

All leaders should be nerfed, their ability should not be able to create more than 6p difference then nobody will complain about Usurper and probably there only be a handful of people who will play him.

"All leaders should be nerfed, their ability should not be able to create more than 6p difference"

There would be absolutely no point in even having leaders if that was the case to be honest.

I agree with Alexander, I like crazy combos, and it's possible to balance the game without strict or big nerfs. Balancing can be done through buffing, people just need to be patient.

I hope the course CDPR takes is to let the meta cool down and make the small changes needed to the other factions.

I'm honestly loving the big combos, NR now having really cool engines that have made the faction competitive again, Syndicate combos really good, sure maybe a tiny, very tiny bit of balancing to DJ, NG really strong at dismantling combos. SK still strong. Honestly the faction that needs the most attention it seems is Monsters, have hardly seen any monsters this patch, or even before it to be honest. And rarely see any monster leaders other than Arachas Queen. Notice how no one uses Detlaff after he was nerfed??
 
All I want is to build a deck that has synergies with the leader I select. And I want to play that deck, the way it was originally intended, the moment I selected certain cards in the deck to include.

Gernichora, Filavandrel, boost-Meve, bloodthirst-Arnjolf. These are not crazy combo-leaders. However, these leaders struggle against Usurper if they dont include cards that offer alternative way to achieve synergies without the leader. And this is a major constraint on the deck building.

You want to balance? I want that too. But I also want to play decks and leaders, that are normally constrained by Usurper.

Usurper has been present in every meta. Just because there are some crazy unbalanced decks out there, doesent mean that Usurper should make the game any more toxic by restricting more decks.
Example: DJ can be countered by any tempo deck, that decides to bleed. Meve can do just that. However, since Usurper is played, we are less likely to encounter a Meve that relies on leader synergies alone, if the deck has to stand a chance against Usurper. So in order to stay competitive while playing Meeve, the deck also has to include some stand-alone cards, that offer value potential without leader synergy. This reduces variety in potential Meeve decks we otherwise would see.
 
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All I want is to build a deck that has synergies with the leader I select. And I want to play that deck, the way it was originally intended, the moment I selected certain cards in the deck to include.

Gernichora, Filavandrel, boost-Meve, bloodthirst-Arnjolf. These are not crazy combo-leaders. However, these leaders struggle against Usurper if they dont include cards that offer alternative way to achieve synergies without the leader. And this is a major constraint on the deck building.

You want to balance? I want that too. But I also want to play decks and leaders, that are normally constrained by Usurper.

Usurper has been present in every meta. Just because there are some crazy unbalanced decks out there, doesent mean that Usurper should make the game any more toxic by restricting more decks.
Example: DJ can be countered by any tempo deck, that decides to bleed. Meve can do just that. However, since Usurper is played, we are less likely to encounter a Meve that relies on leader synergies alone, if the deck has to stand a chance against Usurper. So in order to stay competitive while playing Meeve, the deck also has to include some stand-alone cards, that offer value potential without leader synergy. This reduces variety in potential Meeve decks we otherwise would see.

Agreed, that seems a viable option, including cards that allow you to counter usurper by providing synergy with your leader, at least temporarily, would be a step in the right direction. The only problem then is how does Usurper stay a viable leader people want to play if he can have his ability can be countered??

And I am playing as DJ Syndicate right now and there are ways my deck can and has struggled against other factions. Tempo decks like you mentioned, I struggled against a well designed and played Crach deck. Was absolutely dismantled by an awesome Anna Henrietta deck. I played a match against Meve that was a very tight one, especially in round 3 when we both had all our combos and synergies at work.

I really struggle to see how strict nerfs will solve the problem without simply driving people away from DJ or Usurper as leaders. The only thing i dislike about this game at the moment is how many leaders are unplayable and don't get played.
 
I really struggle to see how strict nerfs will solve the problem without simply driving people away from DJ or Usurper as leaders. The only thing i dislike about this game at the moment is how many leaders are unplayable and don't get played.

But this is exactly my point. Usurper has no place in this game. He provides nothing unique other than restricting the design-space in deck building. He is a leader that is both boring to play, and play against, among other issues mentioned in previous post.
 
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He provides nothing unique other than restricting the design-space in deck building.
I don't see what is bad about restrictung deckbuilding in a meaningful way. He is a pretty great tool to tune some of the more extreme decks down, which is definetly good.
He is a leader that is both boring to play, and play against
And that is something I wholeheartly disagree with. He makes playing against him a whole different experience than against all other leaders, which is in my opinion the perfect spot to be in, because he feels unique therefore.
 
"All leaders should be nerfed, their ability should not be able to create more than 6p difference"

There would be absolutely no point in even having leaders if that was the case to be honest.

I agree with Alexander, I like crazy combos, and it's possible to balance the game without strict or big nerfs. Balancing can be done through buffing, people just need to be patient.

I hope the course CDPR takes is to let the meta cool down and make the small changes needed to the other factions.

I'm honestly loving the big combos, NR now having really cool engines that have made the faction competitive again, Syndicate combos really good, sure maybe a tiny, very tiny bit of balancing to DJ, NG really strong at dismantling combos. SK still strong. Honestly the faction that needs the most attention it seems is Monsters, have hardly seen any monsters this patch, or even before it to be honest. And rarely see any monster leaders other than Arachas Queen. Notice how no one uses Detlaff after he was nerfed??

Is not only that monsters are underpowered also there are many leaders underpowered.

And you can't balance them unless you nerf them all, the idea that 6p doesn't matter is incorrect as even 1p matters in many games. I had at least 50 draws so every point matters.

The main problem is that too many cards have an OP active ability which leads to the same washed up decks every time, same schemes and then it all resorts to having the luck to counter such schemes or play those schemes, is like an cat an mouse game.

That's why NG is so popular because it has good counter cards to counter the OP NR if cards would not have so many abilities then you don't have to rely on counter cards or Usurper.
 
And that is something I wholeheartly disagree with. He makes playing against him a whole different experience than against all other leaders, which is in my opinion the perfect spot to be in, because he feels unique therefore.

That's a valid point. Decks which rely solely on their leader, have to play differently against him. In the case with DJ, that has to trash the townsfolk and Igor early on, since this card-combo becomes useless. Other decks like AQ need to include monster nest, or Germain in the meta where Usurper is present. But I guess that it wouldnt be any different in other meta setups, where you want to include cards that tech-up against certain decks.
 
Why are there so many [ . . . ] netdeckers of NG hyperthin & Usurper Shupe? Players completely relying on the creation of others, it's like a parasite epidemic right now. :facepalm:
 
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Why are there so many [ . . . ] netdeckers of NG hyperthin & Usurper Shupe? Players completely relying on the creation of others, it's like a parasite epidemic right now. :facepalm:

I've been a parasite ever since October xD

The problem is that it takes more than 2 hours each day to win 18 rounds, if you play suboptimal decks and experiment. Some people just want to get it over with ASAP.

I would love if Blitz continued to be part of gwent.
 
Why are there so many [ . . . ] netdeckers of NG hyperthin & Usurper Shupe? Players completely relying on the creation of others, it's like a parasite epidemic right now. :facepalm:

I'll never understand this mindset, especially when deck building is as restricted as it is in this game. Not all decks are equal amd as you test and modify your own deck, you will either begin to resemble top tier decks or consciously play something suboptimal and "unique."

You can't balance around special snowflakes, you need to balance around competitive decks. So if you're seeing metas that consist solely of top tier decks (NR and SY) and their direct counters (NG) then you have an unhealthy meta.

I, personally, dislike NG. However, I have started playing them to control the unbalanced top tier decks. This is very quickly leading to me becoming bored with this game's very binary setup of 90:10 matchups. I could invest in NR or SY, but the nerf is inevitable. I just play less and less, and I only started two months ago; thats a really short time to be burnt out already.
 
I'll never understand this mindset, especially when deck building is as restricted as it is in this game. Not all decks are equal amd as you test and modify your own deck, you will either begin to resemble top tier decks or consciously play something suboptimal and "unique."

You can't balance around special snowflakes, you need to balance around competitive decks. So if you're seeing metas that consist solely of top tier decks (NR and SY) and their direct counters (NG) then you have an unhealthy meta.

I, personally, dislike NG. However, I have started playing them to control the unbalanced top tier decks. This is very quickly leading to me becoming bored with this game's very binary setup of 90:10 matchups. I could invest in NR or SY, but the nerf is inevitable. I just play less and less, and I only started two months ago; thats a really short time to be burnt out already.

You don't need to play NG just to control these currently unbalanced decks. I have quite the success on winning against these so called unbalanced top tier decks without relying on these currently famous counter decks which is NG builds and some Eithne Schirru. Play the deck or faction you are happy with then try to customize or build around these meta decks.

The problem is, once a top tier deck is brewed, players tend to swarm on that deck and stick with it until a new top tier deck is made again. Everyone has the potential to discover some crazy combinations but they are just too lazy to explore.
 
You don't need to play NG just to control these currently unbalanced decks. I have quite the success on winning against these so called unbalanced top tier decks without relying on these currently famous counter decks which is NG builds and some Eithne Schirru. Play the deck or faction you are happy with then try to customize or build around these meta decks.

The problem is, once a top tier deck is brewed, players tend to swarm on that deck and stick with it until a new top tier deck is made again. Everyone has the potential to discover some crazy combinations but they are just too lazy to explore.

I'm a long-time MTG player, and I used to have this mindset that there was something better or more "honorable" about homebrewing decks. When I was making my own brews, I would tinker with them and they would slowly begin to resemble the top tier decks. Then, I started working with a competitive team for a while and I realized that the real secret is just putting man-hours into testing. Sure, there are some "eureka" moments, but more often than not, what you're doing is streamlining an archetype or strategy.

Ideally, I want to have a 50% win rate (while striving toward a 100% win rate). That means my deck is sufficiently balanced and my rank has stabilized. This should translate into enjoyable (and even) games. But I'm finding that the 50% is much closer to a coin flip, based on strong vs weak matchups. I thoroughly dislike playing against NG, and I'm not very fond of playing as NG, either. So, while my other decks can win occasionally, they don't do so consistently enough against the decks I see most of the time.

My main decks are all SK; since I am still new and have a limited collection, it made sense to focus on one faction first. I have Svalgod engines, Crach control, and Harald midrange (I am trying to make a Bran Shupe deck, but idk about that one). Although, recently I have just been playing seasonal with Harald point-slam, because there are a lot less SY and NR decks that can work in 8s turns. But this is a bit boring for me, as I like my cards to have lots of interactions and synergy.

What really brought up this line of thinking was an exceptionally fun game I had vs an Eldain deck. It was the final turn, 34 - 40, with me saving Dagur for this round. My opponent had 2 Elven Scouts on the field and had just reset his Pitfall Trap with Iorveth. I won that game by activating Harald and then letting time run out so I discarded Dagur and didn't trigger the trap/scouts. I realized that I have very few games where I can make meaningful decisions like that. More often it's a question of winning the coin flip and/or bleeding round 2.

That relates, tangentially, to my problems with NG. It's not that they are OP, it's that they are very binary. Usurper, himself, is binary in that he shuts down high-synergy leaders and folds to plain old point slam. The rest of NG is just a question of drawing the right half of your deck to answer threats. If I drop Svalblod Priest and they don't have the muzzle/lock, they can't keep up. If they do have the lock, I just played a 5-for-5 brick. And I noticed the same thing when playing NG: some games I would answer everything immediately and my opponent had no chance, other times I'll just draw my filler cards that can't match real engines. And don't get me started on artifact/special card decks that blank conventional interaction.



I really think a many problems could be solved by doing a few things:

  1. Give some cards with lock a duration - this messes up the enemy tempo but still gives both players the choice of playing out the round or closing it early.

  2. Introduce armor and row restriction to artifacts - This allows the primary forms of interaction (damage and movement) to function, but still allows you to get value out of those artifacts while your opponent loses the virtual value that damage gives against units with power.

  3. Give units conditional control abilities on the board - Imagine if Alba Armored Cavalry instead came on the board with 4 power and 3 armor and read "lock an enemy unit while AAC is on the board and has armor." This slows the engines down and generates virtual value if the opponent attacks the armor directly.
 
Give some cards with lock a duration - this messes up the enemy tempo but still gives both players the choice of playing out the round or closing it early.
Really like that idea. Would make playing around locked cards a lot more meaningful. And in the same way, immunity could get a timer too.
 
Btw, any idea on how to counter ultra-thin Ardal ? just so I can net-deck and carry on mindlessly as usual.
Hmm it might be sinsible to include bloody-baron or gerald, lol totally forgot those cards existed.
 
On a side note, you can manually discard a card by dragging it to the graveyard, in case you didn't know.

Huh, learn something new every day.
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Btw, any idea on how to counter ultra-thin Ardal ? just so I can net-deck and carry on mindlessly as usual.
Hmm it might be sinsible to include bloody-baron or gerald, lol totally forgot those cards existed.

Unsurprisingly, NG is very good at countering this deck! Infiltrator, Assire, and Cynthia add junk units to the deck and Traheaern can remove Tibor.
 
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Huh, learn something new every day.
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Unsurprisingly, NG is very good at countering this deck! Infiltrator, Assire, and Cynthia add junk units to the deck and Traheaern can remove Tibor.

Ah true, I dont know about you but I've been running into hyper-thin NG 5/8 times around rank 4-5. Funny enough that it is NG that turned out to be a problem rather than DJ. Either way, DJ stands out to be an outstanding leader, since by abandonning the igor-towsfolk package, he can try and fool people into bleeding him, by passing early, and then surprisning them with huge point-swings.
Now foltest on the other hand, I haven't seen him for quite a while.

Its very exciting to see how the meta continues to develop. The fact remains that no leader is unbeatable. It is the players responsiveness to adapt that determines the dynamics of this game.
 
Ah true, I dont know about you but I've been running into hyper-thin NG 5/8 times around rank 4-5. Funny enough that it is NG that turned out to be a problem rather than DJ. Either way, DJ stands out to be an outstanding leader, since by abandonning the igor-towsfolk package, he can try and fool people into bleeding him, by passing early, and then surprisning them with huge point-swings.
Now foltest on the other hand, I haven't seen him for quite a while.

Its very exciting to see how the meta continues to develop. The fact remains that no leader is unbeatable. It is the players responsiveness to adapt that determines the dynamics of this game.

It's exciting when you don't already know the outcome.

ElricVIII said:
Usurper is just one aspect of the above mentioned problem. Although I am relatively new to Gwent, I have been playing MTG for roughly 15 years, so I understand the idea of meta dynamics. I've noticed that you seem to take a lot of umbrage with SK, Svalblod in particular. NG might, in fact, be part of the reason that you see so much Svalblod. In MTG, there are 2 things that make a deck powerful in the meta: first, the deck has a very proactive strategy that gives it a favorable matchup against a broad selection of decks. Second, the deck can adapt and withstand the various counter-strategies that exist in the game. There is also some share given to decks that specifically prey on meta decks, but tend to lose to homebrew or unconventional decks (given the limited card pool/factions, this is less of an issue).

This is a quote from me in a balance discussion about Usurper and NG before the patch. So when we get those proactive engine decks like NR/SY, we see even more NG.
 
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