FPP/TPP Perspective Thread OPEN. Be NICE.

[Nikola_Nesic]

Take-downs and executions are not good melee system, they are good addition to melee, in FPP melee is mostly bare bone basic you swing right you swing left, as in FPP you can't really do any melee combat that would look good.

Also lets i lost hope they even did good RPG part of the game.

 

[KeldornOfLatria]

Take-downs and executions are not good melee system, they are good addition to melee, in FPP melee is mostly bare bone basic you swing right you swing left, as in FPP you can't really do any melee combat that would look good.

Also lets i lost hope they even did good RPG part of the game.

Maybe a little bit like in the Dishonored games? That can be quite skill intensive, if you commit some time...

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

in FPP you can't really do any melee combat that would look good.

I’m a bit curious.

What makes melee ”look” good? Pirouettes, somersaults, rolling, combos?

I mean, I’m fine with rudimentary melee looks and controls if the RPG stats behind them work appropriately. I’m not at all a fan of realism and shaky camera in that regard, and similiarly extravagant combos are just silly.

But you can do sidesteps, blocks and ripostes and the like just fine in FPP. It does, of course, require some camera movement that’s been a problem to some, but it is doable nonetheless.

 

[KeldornOfLatria]

I'm pretty sure that CDPR didn't take the decision lightly, so there are realy good reasons for a FPP.
I am actually pretty hyped about that dialogue mechanic where you get some dialogue options depending on what you are/were looking at. That feels like a cool idea to "translate" pen&paper aspects into video game language.

 

[Sild]

It's less cinematic, for one.
It's also more difficult to track opponents you are engaged with if there are more than one, thus positioning matters more in FP than TP. Neither have any bearing on how "good" the combat is or how "RPG" it is.

 

[KeldornOfLatria]

Neither have any bearing on how "good" the combat is or how "RPG" it is.

I'd disagree. Games with prominent melee combat mostly focus on TPP, so there is just more knowledge how to make a good, flowing combat in this perspective (examples are the Souls-Games).
In FPP, melee combat hasn't been developed that much (although there are positive examples like the above mentioned Dishonored). So I don't doubt it's possible to make good FPP-melee, I just don't think that a huge project like CP2077 is the game, that will be mainly known for its great melee combat.
CDPRs combat (in the Witcher series) has – let's be honest – never been great. It just evolved from clunky to "okay".
(Maybe that's why there are half-official combat rework-mods from parts of the developer team.)

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

What makes melee ”look” good? Pirouettes, somersaults, rolling, combos?

First english is not my first language.

Dodge rolling would be so horrible best example for that is ESO, side step ok it would not be so horrible, but any more complex combat maneuvers would not look good from FPP like Pirouette.

Take For Honor combat for example and do Black Prior Bulwark Counter in FPP that would be totall mess, and not so lets say natural and alive, in TPP melee combat look and have more alive feeling, also executions and takedowns in TPP look better they are more viceral.

Also this is not melee related but, taking cover in TPP look normal in most FPP and from CP2077 demo taking cover is just crouching in front of box or table... and thats it.

 

[Sild]

I'd disagree. Games with prominent melee combat mostly focus on TPP, so there is just more knowledge how to make a good, flowing combat in this perspective (examples are the Souls-Games).
In FPP, melee combat hasn't been developed that much (although there are positive examples like the above mentioned Dishonored). So I don't doubt it's possible to make good FPP-melee, I just don't think that a huge project like CP2077 is the game, that will be mainly known for its great melee combat.
CDPRs combat (in the Witcher series) has – let's be honest – never been great. It just evolved from clunky to "okay".
(Maybe that's why there are half-official combat rework-mods from parts of the developer team.)

That's cool, but nothing to do with what you quoted.

I'll put it like this: There are bad melee combat systems in TP as there bad Ranged combat systems in FP and consequently good Ranged combat in TP like Mass Effect or The Division 2 and good melee in FP like Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, Kingdom Come Deliverance etc.

Other things dictate how techincally good combat is and it's type. Not perspective.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Kingdom Come Deliverance FPP combat is to slow and clunky, it work best when you doing 1v1 fight, and even then game is slow fencing type of fight, also moment one more enemy come in combat that systam fall apart.

But they wanted to make really realistic scenario.

 

[Sild]

Kingdom Come Deliverance FPP combat is to slow and clunky

It may be slow, as not every combat system needs to be fast and flashy, but clunky it is not, it's actually a fluid combo based system, heavily reliant on character stats and skills.

 

[Sardukhar]

It may be slow, as not every combat system needs to be fast and flashy, but clunky it is not, it's actually a fluid combo based system, heavily reliant on character stats and skills.

Yep! It's not clunky.

My very longsword-capable son can vouch for it's fluidity - although he will also curse at the Master strikes system, which is, apparently, silly.

This thread also demonstrates how people's opinions on, well, everything can vary and how challenging it is to try to satisfy even a minority.

I very much enjoyed KCD combat and found Skyrim "okay". Either will be acceptable in 2077 - with KCD-style being preferred.

I'll say this, though, having recently played a fair bit of AC Odyssey and Horizon Zero Dawn - it's a bold, bold idea to render a huge detailed world in FPP only.

I'm a bit intimidated by the idea as a player. Intimidated, but also excited! Aaaaand planning to buy a head-tracking device...

 

[Sild]

I very much enjoyed KCD combat and found Skyrim "okay". Either will be acceptable in 2077 - with KCD-style being preferred.

Personally, i've found skyrim's combat to be serviceable at worst, entertaining at the best of times (like how when you equip the same type of spell in your right and left hand resulting in an empowered version of it)

I'm a bit intimidated by the idea as a player. Intimidated, but also excited! Aaaaand planning to buy a head-tracking device...

Mmm. Aye. Some head misplacement is to be expected when Cp2077 comes out. Better safe than sorry!

 

[Sardukhar]

Mmm. Aye. Some head misplacement is to be expected when Cp2077 comes out.

 

[Draconifors]

Imagine that gif in first person, and that you're the pony.

KInda reminds me of the ripperdoc scene from the 2018 demo. The eye part sure was made really creepy by the first-person view.

 

[casbyness]

The creator arguments I've heard over the past 1-2 years for FFP-only gameplay all stem from forcing the player into a narrow experience that they don't want anyone to break out of. The aim seems to be that there are "moments", like the equivalent of a horror movie jump scare, that the creative team are absolutely hell-bent on making you sit through without deviation, and that's why TPP isn't an option.

For me this comes across as a huge red flag for an RPG, as is the confirmation that a no-implants playthrough isn't possible. I really dislike having to rely on mods to play a game (mostly because it means no console version and a wait until the mods have been created) but for a long time now that's sounded like the only viable option.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

It may be slow, as not every combat system needs to be fast and flashy

I didn't say melee combat need to be fast and flashy like DMC and Bayonetta, combat can be fast or slow in any game, it depends of you and number of enemies.

KInda reminds me of the ripperdoc scene from the 2018 demo. The eye part sure was made really creepy by the first-person view.

And yet that scene would be also cool from TPP for many, you can have cool and creepy scene even in TPP, honestly to watch how he put his fingers in your eye and pulling it out with blood dripping out in TPP would be much more creepy than how is shown in 2018 demo.

In few interview they say how during dialogues you can look around and see some item and point to it and open new options, ok nice but in RPG i want my character to notice things based on his skills, not thanks to me for looking for glowing object during dialoge.

 

[Draconifors]

honestly to watch how he put his fingers in your eye and pulling it out with blood dripping out in TPP would be much more creepy than how is shown in 2018 demo.

That would require the camera to not be behind V; you cannot see her face if you're facing her back.
And, in my opinion, if it were to be more like a cutscene then it would be like watching someone else being operated, whereas in FPP it's you being operated.

That scene is a prime example of why I consider FPP to be far more immersive than TPP could ever be. "Living" it instead of just watching it happen.

 

[KeldornOfLatria]

I also think, Johnny Silverhand being "in your head" works better, when he can pop in and out by coming into view from a corner you weren't looking at. Hard to do this in TPP.

 

[antiPLUR]

I enjoyed FPP is Bethesda's Skyrim and Fallout. I think it will work just fine here.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Well, Johnny Silverhand is a hologram so his showing up in your fov, is good however is done to be honest, it would work ok in TPP/FPP.

They did ruin his part of the game by telling us so early that he is hologram, it would be much more interesting that we don't know that and slowly figure it out how story gose.

That would require the camera to not be behind V; you cannot see her face if you're facing her back.

Camera can rotate to face V, like dock show you new eye and place it on the table, and then you get camera rotate from table and your new eye perspective and you see how he remove your eye with all the creepy details you want.

That scene is a prime example of why I consider FPP to be far more immersive than TPP could ever be. "Living" it instead of just watching it happen.

See and that scene was so meh, like all scene in demo they was dead and devoid from life, i didn't see V face expression, her body language how she react on events, all that add so much immersion for me and make game so much alive, all that don't exist in FPP.