The road from rank 10 to 0. Takeaways.

+
Alright, so I've finally hit rank 0, starting back from rank 10 this season and since I believe I'm pretty much done with this game for good, I'd share my thoughts on the gameplay I've encountered. I realise getting to 0 is not that big of a deal since the 0 rank has a 'inner ranking' on it's own, but I think I've seen enough if not all that gwent can offer.
I managed to climb the ranks using only 2 SK decks - mostly Arnj and very briefly an Eist deck. The last few ranks were especially hard as the clustering of Ardals and Frans is over the top with their meta OPness.

Let's face it - this game will never be even moderately balanced, every season there will be 1-2 over the top decks (or factions) that the majority play in ranked and if you don't go with the flow, there is no point to play except if you enjoy losing most of the time. I've played gwent over 1,5 years ago and I can honestly say nothing has changed in a good directing or showing any signs of changing in a good direction regarding balancing. I've come back after 2 expansions were introduced, with dozens of other new cards, new faction etc, to see the old problem of ppl playing no more than 100 cards over and over ad nauseum. What is even worse - the change of the mulligan system and the introduction of very efficient thinning options reduced the variety and variance of decks even more so.
Without a doubt about half of the neutral cards see no play anywhere, without a doubt there are dozens of faction cards that rot in the cellar the same way. I think at this point CDPR can simply cut them out to make the newjoiners experience a bit better, as the variety of cards is a lie and a trap.

Another factor that drives my opinion on balance is the fact that the developers had the intent to decrease the 'control' of low value cards in order to balance 'removal' on a more decent level. You can see the total failure of this effort as almost all meta decks still have very efficient low value bronze removal options - NG tactics, portal dwarves/scorpions, bounty, poison as few examples of such.

The most important factor for any game - the fun factor is very lacking. You will hardly get it from deck building with all the restrictions and low variety of interesting cards, and it's even more lacking in the ladder, which instead of being fun friendly skirmishes, it is nothing more than pure grind and the same 2-3 strategies every single match.

What really killed it for me this time are cards like Portal, Vigo, Novigradian Justice, Water of Brokilon -which are all essencially the same thing - ways to play every single match in the same way, drawing most of your cards from your deck thus reducing the risk of not drawing your high value cards. It will always be an efficient stragety no matter how they want to balance it.

The trend of simplifying stuff in order to fit in the future mobile version is also horrible PC experience - gutting of interesting cards, 3D leaders instead of the beautiful card drawings, the whole de-coupling of leaders and losing leader identity are all things I have no desire to experience in the future.

After all this time, playing about 5 full seasons in total, reading the forums and watching streamers/developer videos my conclusion is that the game is simply too low budget for what they wanted to achieve and is running in a vicious circle biting its tail every single month due to lack of people or funding. It if had the Hearthstone budget, I believe it could have been one of the best games in the decade, but untortunately this is not the reality.
 
Last edited:
I've always played this game 2 hours each day during the last 10 months, except for july. I've always picked a net-deck to play, and never chose to experiment as I don't have time for both aspects of the game. I've had fun because I was able to win most of the time.

The speed-gwent during the seasonal mode actually made me create my own deck. As always, I was focused on winning, thus I auto-conceed when I was matched with another leader I was weak against.

I didn't play ranked at all once I reached rank 0, as the quick match-ups and fast-phased game play during the seasonal-mode allowed me to play a customized deck, while having a less negative feeling towards losses, due to fast phased nature of the game. It didn't feel like a time robbery compared to what we see in ranked, where you feel cheated of your time whenever you spend 10 minutes on a game that you eventually loose. This feeling is more distinct whenever you have 'bad-matchups'.

As the meta always seems to be skewed to favour 1-2 tier 1 decks, and 5 tier 2. Those who bother to play anything else, will have a better experience if the matches become much faster, as the described aspect of 'time robbery' will be less prominent.

There are other aspects that contribute to balance such as race to the top, for those unfortunate enough not to remain in the top 500. However, I want to focus on what I consider the most relevant aspect of this game, which is its phase. I was actually excited about logging on each day in order to play speed gwent. This wasn't the case at all, in all those other months I played, where it felt more like an obligation, as I have a goal to compleate all the seasonal reward trees.
 
Weird time to complain, meta this month is actually pretty good. Yes portal and hyperthin NG are problematic, but unfortunately that's the only thing NG has right now, so we have to wait for some changes, also it's not something you can't counter well. Thinning overall is probably a little bit too cheap right now, but guess what, they changed that because people were complaining about game being too draw dependant and that hurr durr they can't play their combos, so looks like you just can't please everyone.

Other than that, you yourself said that you played Arnj and Eist, so with Sval that's 3 playable SK leaders. ST have Fran, Eith and Dana. Monsters have Dett and AQ. NR have Folt, Cala, Meve. SY was bugged so noone came with new polished decks so it's hard to tell.
 
Lot of viable decks this month, I'm really enjoying it. For sure the last climb to rank 0 is never the most enjoyable thing, but it would be an error to stop now that you've reached the best Gwent part.

Maybe your feelings come from the fact that you mainly played 2 decks from the same faction. Every faction is playable right now, and even if some leaders are a little over the top I'm really enjoying the current meta.

I'm playing since Homecoming and I've never seen the diversity we have right now. Yes there are problems, you've mentionned over thinning, but nothing as severe as we had in the past.

Have fun !
 
Hey, I remember a match with you a few days ago. My Fran vs your Arnjolf. I drew perfectly... Congrats with reaching pro! I'm still on rank 1. I wonder how many matches / wins did it take you to reach pro rank?

I agree with you on thinning, I would prefer when the game requires players to adapt more to their actual hand. Thinning chains such as tutor+tutor should be prohibited (Menno into Marching orders, Fauve into Call of the Forest), and it's also very easy to implement by introducing a respective tag. And indeed, the trust in the ability of the current dev team has been eroded. But the game is still good for me to play for a week each month after season's start and meta refresh.
 
Hey, I remember a match with you a few days ago. My Fran vs your Arnjolf. I drew perfectly... Congrats with reaching pro! I'm still on rank 1. I wonder how many matches / wins did it take you to reach pro rank?

Thinning chains such as tutor+tutor should be prohibited (Menno into Marching orders, Fauve into Call of the Forest)

Prohibited ? No. Tuned down ? Only in the particular case where thinning is a superior option compared to other viable alternatives. Viable in terms of competitiveness vs other factions.
Play with the hand you have? There are split opinions on this matter as well. This is the bad type of RNG. You wouldn't really like having a bad had against someone who has the best hand and can 2.0 you in the particular case where you play a combo deck and didnt draw your cards. This is limiting on the design space.
 
Prohibited ? No. Tuned down ? Only in the particular case where thinning is a superior option compared to other viable alternatives. Viable in terms of competitiveness vs other factions.
Ideally, just balanced, yes. But balance is hard. I like to have viable tutors, don't get me wrong. I liked decreased provisions on tutors like Menno or Marching orders. But tutor into tutor is unfun since Closed Beta (King of beggars into Priscilla....).

Once upon a time, a resurrect into a ressurect was viable, but later it was toned down very significantly, with all medics becoming doomed. I guess most people agreed at the time it was a healthy change.
In late Open Beta, only Restore into Captain into Corsair into Longship remained, and it was rightfully complained about. Absent HC, it would have been probably nerfed.

So what I am proposing here is the same treatment for tutors, nothing more.

Play with the hand you have? There are split opinions on this matter as well. This is the bad type of RNG. You wouldn't really like having a bad had against someone who has the best hand and can 2.0 you in the particular case where you play a combo deck and didnt draw your cards. This is limiting on the design space.
Opinions are split here indeed. I only voiced mine.
 
We are talking about a mechanic that you only can use once during the game. I dont understand why it bothers players. The mechanic is a tempo play like any other that also thins at the same time. Witcher trio used to do just that, and now some people actually want them back. You still pay a premium for the thinning, which makes the rest of your deck weaker in later rounds. I mean, in principle every faction can play this combo: marching orders, into Meno/John Natalis/Ermion/Fauvre. Not every faction does this because of the mentioned premium as the case with SK, which doesen't play this combo. Or ST, that also uses agitators. This underlines the weakness of NG, as it lack of viable alternatives.
Other mechanics that share similarities is diplomacy into diplomacy into Experimental Remedy. Pure RNG based, which can provide exceptional amount of value in assimilate decks.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
First of all, congrats to OP for reaching Pro Rank. Even though i've never did the same, i can relate to most of his feelings and opinions expressed in his post.

-Usually its on the months i've done the longest grinds on ranked that i hate Gwent the most, even if i achieved better results than before. Long ago i've decided to not even bother trying to go Pro Rank in HC when i liked Gwent Beta more, this version just simply isnt worth that much time.

-Seems a lot of players are happy with this month's meta, regarding it as balanced, but i think it's just a lack of perspective: last couple of month's have been hell in terms of balance and meta, so if there's an improvement they see the current state as good, even if it's still pretty bad and following the same cycles.

-Control and removal is one of the biggest problems, i wrote about it on a recent thread specifically about it. It's just one of those things that no matter how hard the devs try to minimize, the meta will always find ways to circumvent it. Nerf one thing, another one that already existed starts to shine...

-Blitz Gwent really was a great addition and i hope it's added as a permanent mode. All of the frustrating things about Gwent dont feel so bad when the matches go quick and you dont feel like its a huge waste of time. I'd rather lose on a tight, quick match against another veteran than winning by a lot on a long match vs an amateur.
 
I fear CDPR are trying to please everyone and if the forums are anything to go by, this simply never ever ends well. I just wish people would wait for all the factions to get their overhauls. Once that happens surely it will be easier for them to manage balance issues?? Problem is like what was said above, nerf one thing, another rises, hence one of the problems I have with nerfing.

But I also agree that deck restrictions probably help create these crazy meta decks that people become obsessed with and cling to, I admit I did use DJ last season mainly as said above so I could compete simply because of the amount of NR and SY that was around, but I certainly have seen a little more variety this season. However that is starting to change as it becomes abundantly clear that ST and NG are the new OP meta decks.

I agree that probably the budget and size of the development team is too small for what they are trying to achieve for the game but unfortunately with Cyberpunk on the way they probably won't/can't spare any other resources.

I am always biased in my judgement of CDPR because I'm not crazy good at the game and I'll probably never reach rank 10 let alone 0 so I don't take the game too serious, I enjoy using my own decks even if I only win 40%-50% of the time, as long I keep enjoying decks and win enough for me to not loose that enjoyment then I will keep playing. That said, hopefully CDPR can find a solid direction they want this game to go in and maybe open up deck building to allow people to go crazy? I don't know what the answer is.
 
I fear CDPR are trying to please everyone and if the forums are anything to go by, this simply never ever ends well. I just wish people would wait for all the factions to get their overhauls. Once that happens surely it will be easier for them to manage balance issues?? Problem is like what was said above, nerf one thing, another rises, hence one of the problems I have with nerfing.

But I also agree that deck restrictions probably help create these crazy meta decks that people become obsessed with and cling to, I admit I did use DJ last season mainly as said above so I could compete simply because of the amount of NR and SY that was around, but I certainly have seen a little more variety this season. However that is starting to change as it becomes abundantly clear that ST and NG are the new OP meta decks.

I agree that probably the budget and size of the development team is too small for what they are trying to achieve for the game but unfortunately with Cyberpunk on the way they probably won't/can't spare any other resources.

I am always biased in my judgement of CDPR because I'm not crazy good at the game and I'll probably never reach rank 10 let alone 0 so I don't take the game too serious, I enjoy using my own decks even if I only win 40%-50% of the time, as long I keep enjoying decks and win enough for me to not loose that enjoyment then I will keep playing. That said, hopefully CDPR can find a solid direction they want this game to go in and maybe open up deck building to allow people to go crazy? I don't know what the answer is.

You will be shocked at how far you can get in ranked if you just play a lot with a decent deck. I promise.
 
Weird time to complain, meta this month is actually pretty good. Yes portal and hyperthin NG are problematic, but unfortunately that's the only thing NG has right now, so we have to wait for some changes, also it's not something you can't counter well. Thinning overall is probably a little bit too cheap right now, but guess what, they changed that because people were complaining about game being too draw dependant and that hurr durr they can't play their combos, so looks like you just can't please everyone.

Other than that, you yourself said that you played Arnj and Eist, so with Sval that's 3 playable SK leaders. ST have Fran, Eith and Dana. Monsters have Dett and AQ. NR have Folt, Cala, Meve. SY was bugged so noone came with new polished decks so it's hard to tell.
Unfortunately the 'rich meta' and 'a lot of viable decks' are the lie I'm talking about.
Both my Eist and Arnj used the self wound Sk package, almost the same one that Sval uses. Crateswords are underwhelming and Bloodthirst/Crach control are quite dead. I won't even go how bad is bran and the discard package SK have is laughable.
You won't find a single ST deck that does not use Waters/Justice/Call of the forest. They are auto include no brainers, even Eithne decks use them now
Monsters really have only Detlaff, and even he is a T2 deck at best.
NG decks are all the same. Everything is hyperthin, because guess what - it's abusive and ppl like to abuse.
Every T1 deck uses Portal, every T1 deck uses insane thinning or decks full of tutors(which btw also thin) at the moment. Just wait for the Aretuza/Leviathan snapshots I bet they will confirm this.

They also keep buffing control which is mind boggling. (cheaper scorch/yen's invocation/korathi hw etc)

This underlines the weakness of NG, as it lack of viable alternatives.
This statement is simply not true, ppl use NG hyperthin because it's quite strong and dependant, I'd say it's a T1 deck at the moment. There are plenty of more balanced and less fun killing alternatives - assimilate, witcher trio, double muzzle, Emhyr soldiers, cheap tall removals, shupe options, NG has plenty of great cards, but with the existence of the disgusting thinning, everybody simply plays only that. All of the Ardal/Usurper/Calveit decks are the same.
 
Last edited:
This statement is simply not true, ppl use NG hyperthin because it's quite strong and dependant, I'd say it's a T1 deck at the moment. There are plenty of more balanced and less fun killing alternatives - assimilate, witcher trio, double muzzle, Emhyr soldiers, cheap tall removals, shupe options, NG has plenty of great cards, but with the existence of the disgusting thinning, everybody simply plays only that. All of the Ardal/Usurper/Calveit decks are the same.

The reason it's tier 1, is because we dont see as many NR decks that have a very strong counter to hyperthin with Baron. Hyperthin as an archtype isn't that strong, considering how easy it is to tech up againt it, thus it's unlikely that it will be a tier 1 or high tier 2 deck for long. For a high risk deck, I think its fairly balanced.
I cant really think of other NG decks that can benefit from Marching orders + Vigo, except for assimilate, which again only runs Vigo. As for NG-control, the extra thinning deprives you from more powerful control option as trade-off for more consistency.

Some ST decks plays 'dwarven mercenary' with justice. As the decks usually run other low power level dwarves such as skirmishers and agitators, 'Portal' becomes a redundant choice for ST decks.
NG doesent have any faction specific way to play two engines at once, which is quite good, when playing control, as it allows you to set up a kill/sieze using pings. Hence a portal becomes the optimal choice, as control NG lacks proactive plays, and can quickly get out-phased during first round when going first. Portal is the standard pick, as it also provides the necessary tempo.
Portal is also good in NR engines decks, or AQ decks, hence I dont like the idea of it being nerfed as NR inderectly will be hit by the nerf (you can still paly Roche, but he is more RNG based, which sucks, when you want to set up two engines). And obviously, you still need to build a deck around the portal, thus when better alternatives become available, portal may not entirely be a standard pick for either NR or NG, with introduction of new expansions/cards. Either way, I like the idea of playing two bronzes during a single turn, which creates an interactive element in the game-play, as the opponent has to consider what to do with removal options he has to counter your play, as engines can typically spin out of control pun intended.
 
Last edited:
The reason it's tier 1, is because we dont see as many NR decks that have a very strong counter to hyperthin with Baron. Hyperthin as an archtype isn't that strong, considering how easy it is to tech up againt it, thus it's unlikely that it will be a tier 1 or high tier 2 deck for long. For a high risk deck, I think its fairly balanced.
I cant really think of other NG decks that can benefit from Marching orders + Vigo, except for assimilate, which again only runs Vigo. As for NG-control, the extra thinning deprives you from more powerful control option as trade-off for more consistency.

Some ST decks plays 'dwarven mercenary' with justice. As the decks usually run other low power level dwarves such as skirmishers and agitators, 'Portal' becomes a redundant choice for ST decks.
NG doesent have any faction specific way to play two engines at once, which is quite good, when playing control, as it allows you to set up a kill/sieze using pings. Hence a portal becomes the optimal choice, as control NG lacks proactive plays, and can quickly get out-phased during first round when going first. Portal is the standard pick, as it also provides the necessary tempo.
Portal is also good in NR engines decks, or AQ decks, hence I dont like the idea of it being nerfed as NR inderectly will be hit by the nerf (you can still paly Roche, but he is more RNG based, which sucks, when you want to set up two engines). And obviously, you still need to build a deck around the portal, thus when better alternatives become available, portal may not entirely be a standard pick for either NR or NG, with introduction of new expansions/cards. Either way, I like the idea of playing two bronzes during a single turn, which creates an interactive element in the game-play, as the opponent has to consider what to do with removal options he has to counter your play, as engines can typically spin out of control pun intended.
Can you please explain how exactly is hyperthin 'high risk'. I can't even remember ever seeing this deck to brick, you also can't really bleed it due to the high tempo it has and even if you go for a long round 2, you are still playing way less cards than the NG deck. How exactly do you tech to counter it?
Also. no 'more powerful control option'? Are you for real? This deck usually has the portal/helga ; yen's invocation, vigeforz and the card that throws tibor at you + all of the tactics removals. How much more control you want to stuff in 1 deck? Hyperthin screams control+high temto this is the issue, when you combine these 2 things you end up being OP.
 
Can you please explain how exactly is hyperthin 'high risk'. I can't even remember ever seeing this deck to brick, you also can't really bleed it due to the high tempo it has and even if you go for a long round 2, you are still playing way less cards than the NG deck. How exactly do you tech to counter it?
Also. no 'more powerful control option'? Are you for real? This deck usually has the portal/helga ; yen's invocation, vigeforz and the card that throws tibor at you + all of the tactics removals. How much more control you want to stuff in 1 deck? Hyperthin screams control+high temto this is the issue, when you combine these 2 things you end up being OP.

I wouldnt call it control because you can go much further and include the witcher package. Hyperthin is focused on winning the round through the mentioned control options (tactics) by stopping engines and hence preventing being bled.

In terms of high risk; If NR was a bit stronger this season and stood a better chance of winning round 1 against hyper-thin, Baron would be obvious tech choice, and in a longer round Hyperthin would pale in comparison. Tall removal is also a thing, as Eithne is actually playable this season due to Usurper being less prevalent in the meta. And the fact that the deck gets countered by a single card: Traheaern var Vdyffir. A card that cost you 8 provisions, while still providing a decent option against any other faction, is also something to consider. Without Tibor/golem its game over, hence the high risk. You can try shuffle it back with Assire, thus i'm a bit uncertain concerning viability of that option. Emhyr could technically Traheaern into arbelist, but who plays Emhyr, right ?
 
Last edited:
I wouldnt call it control because you can go much further and include the witcher package. Hyperthin is focused on winning the round through the mentioned control options (tactics) by stopping engines and hence preventing being bled.

In terms of high risk; If NR was a bit stronger this season and stood a better chance of winning round 1 against hyper-thin, Baron would be obvious tech choice, and in a longer round Hyperthin would pale in comparison. Tall removal is also a thing, as Eithne is actually playable this season due to Usurper being less prevalent in the meta. And the fact that the deck gets countered by a single card: Traheaern var Vdyffir. A card that cost you 8 provisions, while still providing a decent option against any other faction, is also something to consider. Without Tibor/golem its game over, hence the high risk. You can try shuffle it back with Assire, thus i'm a bit uncertain concerning viability of that option. Emhyr could technically Traheaern into arbelist, but who plays Emhyr, right ?
baron resets 1 card and if played last, you lose the bleed value. It's as much a counter of hyperthin as Spore is. The NG card you listed is not played by anyone because guess what - NG plays only hypethin and it's not in the deck. And eithne will probably lose 2:0 to hyperthin most of the time, or waste her control options R2. These are all very situational 'counters' that are not available to all factions. And seriously this deck is as much control as it gets - when you have 10-12 cards that are control based of 25 you can't really NOT classify it as a heavy control deck, especially when you know that you will play all of them in 90% of the games
 
TREASON: 7 point card. Destroy card A next to card B. That's 10 points of removal, minimum. Horrid!
 
baron resets 1 card and if played last, you lose the bleed value. It's as much a counter of hyperthin as Spore is. The NG card you listed is not played by anyone because guess what - NG plays only hypethin and it's not in the deck. And eithne will probably lose 2:0 to hyperthin most of the time, or waste her control options R2. These are all very situational 'counters' that are not available to all factions. And seriously this deck is as much control as it gets - when you have 10-12 cards that are control based of 25 you can't really NOT classify it as a heavy control deck, especially when you know that you will play all of them in 90% of the games

Thanks for mentioning. I think you should try the deck yourself, did so today, and had 5x loosing streak. Also, you might be quite found of trying Calanthe-double portal. The deck is a NR version of ulltrathin, maybe a better version, as it isn't susceptible to tall/buff removal, while row effects is a hard counter to that deck.
 
I'm not suprised that this season some people are mad at devs for failing to balance the game. Everyone who read the patch notes saw it for miles away - ST was prety strong last season and got buffed, NG was very strong last season and got basicly no nerfs. I'm starting to lose fate in CDPR.

Btw for those that are either low rank or permanently rank 0 - climbing from rank 5 to 0 is absolute nightmare!!!!! There is no deck variety, ST and NG have only 1 playable deck and at least over 40% play-rate each. It is "beat them or join them" situation and beating them (especialy ST) is no easy task.

I belive devs should outright force people to play diferent factions (only on high ranks).
 
Top Bottom