Does it remind you of Midwinter?

[SuperiorSaturn]

Echo is not a bigger problem than defenders. Hell without justice I would argue that echo is fine now. Defenders on the other hand are basically mandatory. Broken combos in just about every faction. Purify is currently a garbage counter due to very limited options. Go look at Northern Realms options for purify as case and point.

I'd agree to disagree if you simply mean that both are broken, which they are to varrying degrees, and I might agree with you about echo as well since the problem is with the actual units ST specials spawn rather than the specials themselves (which I could see being a legitimate design limiting factor).
I hope I understand you right and that you're not on the other hand insinuating that ST isn't a big problem this meta, specifically dwarve since echo is just their best synergy. Dwarves being broken is just a fact. Most of the relevant PTR testers and competitive players have voiced that and the nerf is basically inevitable. It's just a question of when and one in a series of quality assurance shortcomings above all but that's a topic for another thread. My biggest worry is that they'll axe echo and not even touch dwarves but at this point I wouldn't really be surprised.

As for purifies you can literally run a 4/5p neutral tech that turns a defender into a point play against 5/6 factions. And if you're playing NR this month you shouldn't even be teching purify, you should just play Calanthe with the defender and finally play engines that stick throughout the whole round.
I've tried not even running defenders and a single purifier and I have a pretty satisfying win rate. Pretty sure 70% of my losses were to dwarves.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I'd agree to disagree if you simply mean that both are broken, which they are to varrying degrees, and I might agree with you about echo as well since the problem is with the actual units ST specials spawn rather than the specials themselves (which I could see being a legitimate design limiting factor).
I hope I understand you right and that you're not on the other hand insinuating that ST isn't a big problem this meta, specifically dwarve since echo is just their best synergy. Dwarves being broken is just a fact. Most of the relevant PTR testers and competitive players have voiced that and the nerf is basically inevitable. It's just a question of when and one in a series of quality assurance shortcomings above all but that's a topic for another thread. My biggest worry is that they'll axe echo and not even touch dwarves but at this point I wouldn't really be surprised.

As for purifies you can literally run a 4/5p neutral tech that turns a defender into a point play against 5/6 factions. And if you're playing NR this month you shouldn't even be teching purify, you should just play Calanthe with the defender and finally play engines that stick throughout the whole round.
I've tried not even running defenders and a single purifier and I have a pretty satisfying win rate. Pretty sure 70% of my losses were to dwarves.

ST overall is actually really really bad. It's only being talked about because of Echo Dwarves. Try to imagine SC right now without echo and with dwarves being weak. They would be the worst faction in the game by far. Dwarves are definitely overpowered due to echo justice and just a crazy amount of dwarf spam synergies. I expect them to be nerfed but I would still argue that defenders is a bigger problem. Defenders even makes dwarfs a bigger problem. Defenders makes everything a bigger problem.

Yes I do run a NR deck like that but there isn't anything else viable due to what I said. The purify options are awful.

 

[1990BW]

Will there be a patch soon? I don't want to play this garbage meta anymore.
There are to many broken decks and combo's that need to be adressed.

Mystic echo (Francesca):
- Novigradian justice into dwarven mercenary is broken
- Novigradion justice into dwarven berserker is broken
- Double Water of Brokilon is broken
- Figgis Merluzzo all the defenders are max 7 points this one is 8 points, plays into Oak, plays into Munro Bruys, plays into Barclay Els, plays into freaking everthing in the deck
- Oak is broken because of the insane amount of swarming
- Call of the forest gives to much consistency
- Barclay Els is broken he can do 15-20 points easily!
- Mahakam Guard 10 points 4 provisons!

How to fix them:
- Novigradian justice: turn it into Syndicate Faction only
- Water of brokilon: set Dryad fledging basestrength to 3
- Figgis Merlezuzzo: either higher provision costs (10-11) or spwan just one dwarf and slightly better basestrength
- Oak: either more provisions (15) or let it only count boosting or damaging for the amount of dryads on a row or something
- Call of the forest: let it be playable only on dwarves, elves and dryads
- Barclay Els: turn him into a engine boost by 1 for every dwarf played rather than point slam
- Mahakam Guard: set to 5 provions at least



Pincer Manouver (Calanthe)
- Hen Gaidth Sword to play double Vernon Roche is broken
- Donimir of Troy is broken not only because he has a shield AND armor but also because defender mechanism is game breaking in a engine heavy faction
- Vissegerd + Dandelion boosting for the amount of charges is stupid

Ways to fix them:
- Hen Gaidth Sword: change to destroy a unit with armor
- Donimir of Troy: change ability like give a unit x amount armor.
Defender mechanic should only be in factions that have a small/poor selection of engines
- Vissegerd shouldn't get al the boosts from bloody Dandelion



Miscellaneous
- [MO] Caranthir Ar Feinil into Living armor is broken it lets you play 2x full Living armor!

 

[SuperiorSaturn]

ST overall is actually really really bad. It's only being talked about because of Echo Dwarves. Try to imagine SC right now without echo and with dwarves being weak. They would be the worst faction in the game by far. Dwarves are definitely overpowered due to echo justice and just a crazy amount of dwarf spam synergies. I expect them to be nerfed but I would still argue that defenders is a bigger problem. Defenders even makes dwarfs a bigger problem. Defenders makes everything a bigger problem.

Yes I do run a NR deck like that but there isn't anything else viable due to what I said. The purify options are awful.

I totally agree, all the other ST archetypes are basically piles now. Same problem MO has but on a much smaller scale since MO has basically been a pile faction since Novigrad.

Dwarves only needed a single card from the expansion to push it to tier 1 without tipping it over to 0, and it's not even the defender. They never needed token synergy and I really hope whoever came up with that has a change of career soon. A card for each dwarves, elves, harmony and a trap or two would have been ideal.

I'd say defenders are bad for the meta too because you retroactively obsolesce a ton of interactions and threaten to remove most of the interactivity in at least one of three rounds. I can't say I see them removing it or nerfing the mechanic to where it's unplayable though. I see your point but can't help but think we might be asking too much of CDPR at this point considering it takes them this long just to release an update this utterly disappointing in more ways than one. Lots of missed potential and redundant design choices.

 

[Celadyl]

honestly the card that needs a nerf most now in ST dwarves is the mahakam guard. it's an easy 10p in most rounds and it's a 4 provision card. even if it was 5 provisions and had 1 base strength it would still have a ceiling of 9 (?) which is very good.
I know it is extremely frustrating to face all the fotm dwarf players but CDPR shouldnt overnerf them.
berserkers are also very overtuned. 7 for 4 with 5 of those points being removal. kind of contradicts the whole "only special cards should do 4+ damage" sentiment. 3 strength 3 shield would be okay imo.
hopefully they will make changes to the other ST archetypes very soon. remember cards like elven neophyte (4 for 4) still exist in this meta lol

Ways to fix them:
- Hen Gaidth Sword: change to destroy a unit with armor

wtf, why change a nice card because one combo? just make roche spy immune and there you go.

 

[Alexander_Volgin]

Arachas venom is your solution to Dorfs, if that doesent work, try Manticore-Venom. Will Organic monsters be a thing this season ? If Not we will know for sure which faction will need a buff, rather than which faction needs a nerf, since Organic monsters is basically your hypothetical solution to Echo-Mercenary.

As alternative. CDPR needs to create cheap tech-up cards, and let players sort it out by themselves. Adapt or Perish, but make the former easier.
Remember Big-Monster meta? Well, the large amount of tech-ups that existed in the meta made the deck rather OK than OP.

 

[Evangium]

Well, now that I've seen a few people playing the latest mill deck... Yes, yes it does remind me of mid-winter 2018. CDPR seems to have decided the lessons learned from HC need no longer apply as they look to draw in players from other RNG-heavy CCGs. As someone who also plays MTGA, I feel some of the things they are borrowing from for Gwent cannot be balanced in Gwent. Simply, provisions will never have the same balancing effect on a mechanism designed for a game that has varience built in with its mana system.

That said, this month I have played the most amount of Gwent and seasonal mode I have played since HC. IJ has been a fairly solid expansion, that doesn't seem to have amplified any of the inherent problems in Gwent's dna.