Yenn - Invocation needs a nerf

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I see this card every time I play against NG. It's an auto-include in the deck and it's so OP it's ridiculous. Destroying any card you want costs 10 provs with Korathi, but for 1 less provision you get to destroy AND steal any card (meaning Skellige can't resurrect, or Monsters can't consume) and then play it the following round, or even the same round if you've got Cantarella!
 
Card is fine. Way more broken stuff out there.

Just because there's more broken stuff doesn't make the card "fine"!

The game constantly makes me regret trying combinations and always reverts the player back to only playing cards with deploy. When you're able to run, via NG, Vilgefortz, several locks, muzzle, Sweers, Ardal, Invocation, plus neutrals like Korathi, it renders the enjoyment you're supposed to get from builds or combo's irrelevant. Hence why I think there's a lot of ill-feeling towards the game.

Perhaps singling out Invocation is unfair, but that one in particular doesn't just blitz a card in play, it then removes it from TWO factions archetypes. Philipa is similarly OP. I don't think any particular card or faction archetype set up should specifically work against one particular faction.
 
Just because there's more broken stuff doesn't make the card "fine"!
Yes but honestly, the card is fine.
First it deals with only one unit and second, you can play around it. Since you know that a lot of NG player runs it, just don't buff a single unit more than necessary and make your play thinking about what your opponent could get as an advantage if they get one of your card on the next round. It's really not that bad.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Lately i mostly use Yen Invocation to deal with Defenders on R3, or steal nice golds for later rounds.
 
Yes but honestly, the card is fine.
First it deals with only one unit and second, you can play around it. Since you know that a lot of NG player runs it, just don't buff a single unit more than necessary and make your play thinking about what your opponent could get as an advantage if they get one of your card on the next round. It's really not that bad.

We will just agree to disagree. When you have Skellige/Eist, its unfair that one card is as punitive as Invocation. Not only does it remove a good unit, it steals it, and you can't resurrect it. Same with Monsters, if you're running a consume; Invocation could be used with Old Speartip, or Yrgen, with no playaround apart from "hmm, maybe I won't put this card down". Invocation doesn't brick at all, there is no situation where it isn't useful. It's either very good or excellent!
 
We will just agree to disagree. When you have Skellige/Eist, its unfair that one card is as punitive as Invocation. Not only does it remove a good unit, it steals it, and you can't resurrect it. Same with Monsters, if you're running a consume; Invocation could be used with Old Speartip, or Yrgen, with no playaround apart from "hmm, maybe I won't put this card down". Invocation doesn't brick at all, there is no situation where it isn't useful. It's either very good or excellent!
It's true but the same can be said for litterally every control card in this game and any others, for that matter.
Some cards are better against some decks and worst against others, I understand your frustration but it doesn't mean the card is necessarily a problem for the game.

And usually I'm the first to be against hard counters that shut down an entire strategy but Yen invocation isn't even that bad.
Sure, if you play a big fatty on R1, they can replay it on R2 or R3 but at the same time they can also fail to find that card on R1 and only use it on your big unit on R3, in which case it's not nearly as bad.

What I mean is that, not only Invocation counters specific cards but it's really easy to manipulate its value by making plays that you wouldn't do otherwise. For example, if you expect your opponent to have the card, you can just keep your big units for R2/3 or even mulligan them away. I don't see how it can be that big of a deal, it's not like your deck is solely made of good targets for Invocation...And if it is, well your deck has a bad match up against NG, you can either live with this idea in mind or simply rework your deck so it's less exposed to it.
 
I think this card was fine when it put a card back on top of the owner's deck. It's a double now, eliminating and stealing.

Phew, so I'm not going mad; that's what I always thought it did! That makes sense, if played as a one-two with Cantarella, but on its' own kill/steal/play a card of your choice? For 9 provs?! Madness!

When did it change??
 

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I think this card was fine when it put a card back on top of the owner's deck. It's a double now, eliminating and stealing.
Which can also be a big con. Sometimes you have to use it R1 against a good long round bronze engine that's been given tactical advantage and you by no means would really want it at the top of your deck. It's obviously nuts if you use it against a Seltkirk/Speartip kind of card but that rarely happens. Most of the time it's just gonna be saved to get rid of a defender in R3.
 
Phew, so I'm not going mad; that's what I always thought it did! That makes sense, if played as a one-two with Cantarella, but on its' own kill/steal/play a card of your choice? For 9 provs?! Madness!

When did it change??
They changed it right before the last patch (I mean, the patch before the last patch, if I'm not mistaken).

The thing is, even provision wise this card doesn't strike me as being specifically OP (it's a very good card, don't get me wrong but we need good cards, nobody like playing with trash, obviously).

It's 9 provisions, sure, but it's not as simple as you put it.
I agree with the removal aspect but the stealing one is really conditional. It's far from being "play the card, steal a unit"

You could indeed combo it with Cantarella but Canta is a terrible card on its own so, you absolutely need the combo for it to work, in which case we're not in "9 provisions for removal +stealing" anymore, we're way beyond that in fact.

Also, I feel like Yen invocation is typically the type of card that loses value the more players use it. Yes, it's a very popular card among NG players, I even play it myself in my NG deck but it's exactly what makes it less effective because everybody know it's coming and therefore play around it.

Honestly, I'm not gonna go as far as saying I'm underwhelmed by the card but most of the time, it doesn't provide nearly as much value as I would hope, simply because peoples know that NG players love this card and therefore are playing around it.

It's not like, I don't know, old Sabbath for example, that required a very specific card/effect to add in your deck in order to be beaten (THAT was a very problematic card) here, you can keep your deck the way it is and be perfectly fine as long as you're cautious when you see a NG leader.

I realize I have a different opinion about this card and don't get me wrong, I understand what you mean and respect your point but I think it's more a matter of getting used to the card rather than its effect being too strong.
 
Er, yes it is. Target, destroy and then steal a card of your choice.

The recommended play-arounds above include "don't play a good card 'til R3", "don't build a deck that has a good card in it" and "hope your opponent didn't draw the card at any point".

While Yen is an exceedingly good card you are exaggerating a bit here. Much of the time I try to use Yen I end up with no big targets and it's R3 and I have no way to replay the card I take. Without a big target or an important engine Yen turns into a mediocre to bad play.
 
Actually the argument that R3 the card steal is wasted is not really working as an argument. We have many tutoring units using the top card like:

Dandelion: Poet,
Ciri:Dash,
Iris Companions,
Stregobor (well ok it puts it to 1 hp but hey :D its still back if you stole it for a deploy effect),
Doadrick: Leumarts,
Vicovardo Novice,
Traveling Merchant

Sure on its own Yenn cant do that..

I am sort of surprised about this discussion. Most NG units are, like usual in a control faction, very card inefficient. Other factions cards can dish out huge damage, or generate insane amounts of points on their own for which I would need several turns and support. They can put out units with base points which would make an NG player without such cards automatically give up. You need removals, mill, damage, increased deck efficience ect. to keep up with that and create a card/played card advantage and transfer it into an advantage of points. Thats the natural answer to this issue. And its not like those factions don't have access to removals/removal like solutions and control. How is that fair at all?

Ultimatively the issue I see with this card is, that it doesn't contribute to my field presence. If I have any synergy in my deck this card wont contribute to it. If I rely on a combo the extra card dilutes the chances to get it. If there is nothing worth to steal because my opponent spreads the points well its a wasted card. If my opponent buffs doomed units or use only immunes its a waste. It only punishes players who are overly reliant on a few units and generates a card advantage on field of 1. And maybe if certain standalone cards get too dominant it works well as a punishment in overall meta. Like for defenders. And to spice up NG mirrors....

All the geralts, Leo bonhart are much better because they increase my point value and dont just set back a turn. My experiments with Vilgefortz just started but it seems he requires mill or some infiltration to support which is sort of a punisment for his lack of conditions. I have mixed feelings because the first card he ever summoned from the opponent was a Damien. but at least he increases my field presence.
Right now, in my eyes, Vanhemar is the best removal NG has much better then Yennefer. With strategic withdrawal you can use him even twice. Thats a card advantage of 3 on field.
 
Stop complaining about absolutely everything, just because you've decided to eat 50 points with Slyzard and got burned.Stop complaining about absolutely everything, just because you've decided to eat 50 points with Slyzard and got burned.

The card.

Is.

Fine.

I did liked her better in Beta (replay a Spell from your GY), but right now if it crushes you - it's on you. Just like lining up stuff for Igni or Scorch.
 
Er, yes it is. Target, destroy and then steal a card of your choice.

The recommended play-arounds above include "don't play a good card 'til R3", "don't build a deck that has a good card in it" and "hope your opponent didn't draw the card at any point".
Yen + Calveit can be a strong play if well timed in some match-ups but try it against dwarves or NR engine overload and you will find out it’s not going to save you. I like the card a lot still and would be very upset if it was changed. But I respect you have a different view.
 
Yen + Calveit can be a strong play if well timed in some match-ups but try it against dwarves or NR engine overload and you will find out it’s not going to save you. I like the card a lot still and would be very upset if it was changed. But I respect you have a different view.

Style of play, I guess; the thing that I never understand is when people suggest using a different deck, i.e. Mystic dwarves. I have zero control over what matchmaking throws at me - there's a whole thread, VERY long, on the topic of broken matchmaking and the lack of real randomness therein. So if I play a Skellige deck with Eist's ability, where that deck is designed to make the most of that, then play Invocation or in fact any of the NG seize decks, it's annoying. It's like Arachas vs Usurper, it's such a hard counter it's a stupid matchup. Invocation is too hard a counter for a Skellige resurrection deck to be justifiably a good card; perhaps it's wrong to single out Invocation, but I think CDPR should have a thought about any card or ability that's specifically better/worse for a particular situation and temper it down a bit. Unless they want to bring in an opponent blacklist, so I can specifically block NG decks in matchups.
 
Style of play, I guess; the thing that I never understand is when people suggest using a different deck, i.e. Mystic dwarves. I have zero control over what matchmaking throws at me - there's a whole thread, VERY long, on the topic of broken matchmaking and the lack of real randomness therein. So if I play a Skellige deck with Eist's ability, where that deck is designed to make the most of that, then play Invocation or in fact any of the NG seize decks, it's annoying. It's like Arachas vs Usurper, it's such a hard counter it's a stupid matchup. Invocation is too hard a counter for a Skellige resurrection deck to be justifiably a good card; perhaps it's wrong to single out Invocation, but I think CDPR should have a thought about any card or ability that's specifically better/worse for a particular situation and temper it down a bit. Unless they want to bring in an opponent blacklist, so I can specifically block NG decks in matchups.
I think get your point. I had similar feelings some time ago when ST wasn’t on the top but I had a pretty good Ethiene deck except when matched against the Big W. I wished I could just ban it.
 
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