Yenn - Invocation needs a nerf

[nedders]

I think get your point. I had similar feelings some time ago when ST wasn’t on the top but I had a pretty good Ethiene deck except when matched against the Big W. I wished I could just ban it.

Yes, you get the point completely. Ozzrel, for example, is a good card that can be played for less points but upset a SK deck. That's fine, there's a level of sacrifice involved with Ozzrell which reduces the value from, say, 13 points to just 5, but it's eaten Dagur so it's a payoff. With Invocation, it kills a boosted Dagur, takes it so I can't resurrect, then potentially plays it with its' own defender R3. Hugely unfair. So if the card's "fine" (presumably because those saying so don't play SK-Eist!), then the game match mechanic is broken and I should be able to 'blacklist' anyone playing Usurper, Ardal and Calveit.

Genuinely think you should be able to blacklist 3 leaders from matchups, but that's a whole other conversation.

 

[RyseAurellius]

Genuinely think you should be able to blacklist 3 leaders from matchups, but that's a whole other conversation.

That would not really work. It's one thing to have specific abilities banned in pro tournaments which is fine. But a community wide option to black list abilities you don't wish to play against? Well, may as well just remove all of NG from the game, everyone would ban NG all the time.

 

[nedders]

That would not really work. It's one thing to have specific abilities banned in pro tournaments which is fine. But a community wide option to black list abilities you don't wish to play against? Well, may as well just remove all of NG from the game, everyone would ban NG all the time.

And with good reason, because it's a pathetic faction which recycles the same cards in every deck and leads to absurdly bad gameplay. If nobody with a NG deck could find a game and were therefore forced to build a different deck, what's wrong with that? CDPR could then see the statistics and know what to do about a faction, instead of allowing broken mechanics to fester and spoil the game.

It's either do something, or watch the numbers keep dropping until it's just seize vs seize with the remaining 17 players.

Post automatically merged: Oct 17, 2019

And in terms of the original topic, how is Invocation cheaper than Korathi Heatwave? NG is just garbage.

 

[Anima_13]

And in terms of the original topic, how is Invocation cheaper than Korathi Heatwave? NG is just garbage.

Comparing individual cards in a balance discussion is utter nonsense (but one that is repeated again and again). Balance appears on the level of decks and not on the level of individual cards. Invocation is cheaper because she provides a solution for faction specific issues which aren't present in other factions. IF anything we could rather discuss whether control cards are too tanky or how the existence of a defender within a control faction might create issues.

 

[nedders]

Comparing individual cards in a balance discussion is utter nonsense (but one that is repeated again and again). Balance appears on the level of decks and not on the level of individual cards. Invocation is cheaper because she provides a solution for faction specific issues which aren't present in other factions. IF anything we could rather discuss whether control cards are too tanky or how the existence of a defender within a control faction might create issues.

Fair enough - I think having a defender in a faction with Order cards of such high value is clearly a terrible idea. To think Skellen or Damien can go unanswered wasn't well conceived at all. If it was even considered.

 

[Marginal0]

So if I play a Skellige deck with Eist's ability, where that deck is designed to make the most of that, then play Invocation or in fact any of the NG seize decks, it's annoying.

Sorry but Korathi does the same thing for +1 prov and has been here forever. The amount of cards that would provide full value when your opponent is replaying them instead of playing a card from his deck will be rather low, and you should rather question the power of those cards. And in that case, you're just punishing people for playing OP cards... So it's quite restrictive. Though I rarely play NG I for one have had my share of 6/7-point Invocations against certain decks, where post-match it turns out I might've lost 2 value for holding on to it but not that much difference. If a card can't consistently generate value (especially with defenders around) I can't honestly call it "OP".

Whatever happens you should still get good value from the Eist ability (or you're doing something wrong in deckbuilding). If you somehow face a random deck that hates on graveyard, just shrug and content yourself that they'll probably be losing a lot to other people. If they target your favored Eist card, that's a good read from them. And if you boosted that card to the moon, that's on you man.

I wonder how you're not yet confortable with your leader not working. You should've seen a fair share of "lockdowns" in the past. (though I agree it's not the same thing as those decks are weak)

 

[nedders]

Sorry but Korathi does the same thing for +1 prov and has been here forever. The amount of cards that would provide full value when your opponent is replaying them instead of playing a card from his deck will be rather low, and you should rather question the power of those cards. And in that case, you're just punishing people for playing OP cards... So it's quite restrictive. Though I rarely play NG I for one have had my share of 6/7-point Invocations against certain decks, where post-match it turns out I might've lost 2 value for holding on to it but not that much difference. If a card can't consistently generate value (especially with defenders around) I can't honestly call it "OP".

Whatever happens you should still get good value from the Eist ability (or you're doing something wrong in deckbuilding). If you somehow face a random deck that hates on graveyard, just shrug and content yourself that they'll probably be losing a lot to other people. If they target your favored Eist card, that's a good read from them. And if you boosted that card to the moon, that's on you man.

I wonder how you're not yet confortable with your leader not working. You should've seen a fair share of "lockdowns" in the past. (though I agree it's not the same thing as those decks are weak)

True enough; yep, lockdowns were despicable for a while, particularly played with Usurper!

I tend to be able to work around it, or stop and try something else. I'm relatively chill about it most of the time, I realise having a plan too dependent on certain factors is a very poor way to play Gwent. For instance, really wanted a Deadeye deck to work, but it's so situational you just can't win when everyone's playing NG. Gave up on that - and also on the SK deck that kicked this post into life - and have got back to Rank 7 just by focusing on things I can influence.

Still think Invocation should be 10 provs, same as Korathi because it's the same card, but more in line with NG's stealing. Aside from that, as has been said elsewhere, NG's whole steal mechanic needs attention and fast, so it's probably that Invocation is a symptom of a wider problem, rather than explicitly the cause.

 

[KayranZ]

At least you need to put the card the deck, RNG card like bribery is more broken. Lost to RNG felt terribly bad.

 

[nedders]

At least you need to put the card the deck, RNG card like bribery is more broken. Lost to RNG felt terribly bad.

I played against double bribery and not a word of a lie, they pulled Iris: Shade (I had Living Armor on the board, so they killed that with 20 point swing), they then spawned Living Armor, then played defender on its' row. I mean, wtf - that's THIRTY SEVEN points in one turn.

If the system wants you to lose, you're going to lose.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Yennifer being one provision less than heatwave makes absolutely no sense. She is MUCH better than heatwave.

 

[IndianaJohns]

Yennifer being one provision less than heatwave makes absolutely no sense. She is MUCH better than heatwave.

Of course she is better, Heatwave is Neutral.

Why do people keep comparing Neutral cards to Faction cards?

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Of course she is better, Heatwave is Neutral.

Why do people keep comparing Neutral cards to Faction cards?

That does not prove that Yennifer is balanced. Heatwave is a very strong card prevalent in the meta. It doesn't make sense that Yennifer is cheaper and MUCH stronger.

It's not a situation where a neutral card does 1 point damage less than a faction card. I get that dynamic. I'm not a new player.

 

[Evangium]

Yenn: Invocation would still be a good card if she just destroyed or exiled a card. Personally, I think that the control feature of removing a card from play alone is why she's auto-include.

I suspect that the second part of the card's ability was intended to try and tie it to NG key-word descriptors. I'm not sure how it actually ties in to the lore of either the books or the games, though. If they wanted to go game lore-friendly, and fill the gap left by Yenn: Necromncer becomming a diviner, then maybe have the card banish a unit from its owner's graveyard then damage an enemy by the banished card's provision cost. At least that would provide NG with some more strategic options.

 

[Iuliandrei]

In a way it was nerfed, prior to the patch you were able to target your own units, now it's restricted to "enemy", i don't know why they changed this but this change alone just lost me a game.

 

[tortugueta]

Man, I have been playing a bit after months away from the game and I can see that Nilfgaard is still the same bullshit it has always been. First time I was on the receiving end of Yennefer’s Invocation and saw it was a 9 provision I could barely believe it. For 5 minutes I kept going back to the description to see if I was missing something but nope, classic Nilfgaard bullshit alright.

 

[Rulegard]

After playing for more than two years this is my very first posting. So I'm quite emothional about this card.
And yes, this card needs to be nerfed or at least renamed "Yen: Instant Forfeit" because this is what I'm doing if I "meet" this card.
I am playing only various ST decks (poison, Schirrue, movement, traps, ST scenario) and a monster Ciri Noca deck - all of them relying on a few key cards (and no, I do not like defenders, normally Yen removes in my games cards like Aglais, Pavko, weeping willow, ST scenrio [for every fraction!], pitfall trap etc...) ). Yen always ends the game instantly. And I think it is much stronger than muzzle, because this has a limit AND can be countered by another muzzle.
=> Provision 14 would be fine if the card should be worling like that. For me it's the strongest (& worst) card in the whole game

 

[ReaperTek]

This is imho currently the most frustrating Card.

They should either return her to the skill she had before (Place a Card on Top of his Owners Deck) her buff but this would probably still be problematic with Scenarios (They should change the Scenarios that after Chapter 3 is Completed the Card gets destroyed and banished) and Tactical Decision or Matta.

Or change the Card in to the Heatwave Skill and make her neutral and change Heatwave in to something weather related again it doesn't have to be another Rag Nar Rok it could be something like Skellige Storm maybe with some special effect like purify the row and deal 1 damage to all units on this row for 2 turns.

 

[Fhrek1986]

The game is plain broken all around.

NG and NR are the most obvious broken factions.

Poison and Pincer Maneuver has drestroyed any game balance.

 

[Salrocka]

To be honest, playing against the current Nilfgaard is one huge problem. There were various overly strong decks in the game, which were used by many, but it never came to such an absurdity as the current common nilfgaard. You meet her about every second game. An infinite amount of poison (why not create a map that removes the poison, by the way?), Vincent, who destroys any card with status and the cherry on the cake Yen, demolishing any of your card and transferring it to the opponent's deck. Are you building a game on a unit? It is destroyed by poison, even if you take 3-4 detachments of purification in your hand. There is no chance of losing at least two cards from the poison. Okay, you saved her from the poison (impossible, but okay) - she will be destroyed by Vincent. Are you left with something else? There Vilgefortz. And even if you are incredibly lucky, you have coped with all the troubles - there is a Yen that will take your main card at any time of the final round. Seriously. I have about 5 times come across opponents with Yen, Vinsent, Vilgefortz, scenario, 4-6 cards I with poison. And this is still enough to add a block, transfer from one row to another, cleaning, and so on. How to play against this? Nilfgaard have always been the most difficult decks to play against them, but at least it was possible in some way to get around. There are no similar episodes with other factions. In a game against Skellige, Scoia'tael, Monsters, Syndicate, NR, you can always win or lose. There are different options for what you will see from the opponent, you always need to think. In a game against Nilfgaard with such a deck, you can not count on something, even if you spend the perfect game on your deck.