Update 4.1 is a bad joke

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-Nothing changed with defenders. The game will continue to revolve around them because they are that crazy good.

-Leaders need A LOT of balancing. I am even more shocked that leaders got nothing this patch. The community has given lots of ideas regarding invigorate. Leaders that can play two cards in one turn are going to continue being favored over the others. Eredins old ability whatever it's called has seen next to no play for how long now?? Seriously why does CDPR put so little effort into balancing the game? I'll give one more example here. Ethne's four arrow pings. This ability is so obviously underpowered. I can't believe you guys didn't even do a 1 point provision pass on this stuff. Is it really that hard? I guess we are going to see a lot more Enslave again this coming season. We all love that right? RIGHT?????

-The balancing of cards is just disappointing. You made two changes to SC elves and that's supposed to make some kind of difference????

I really like the quality of life stuff you guys are doing but seriously put at least as much effort into the actual cards/decks themselves.
 
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CDPR has always been horrible at balancing Gwent. It's been like this for years and years. Remember they left Greatswords and Alchemy overpowered and unchanged for 10 months after Midwinter with absolutely no changes. I doubt they actually play the game, or else they would see how obviously broken cards like defenders are.
 
-Nothing changed with defenders. The game will continue to revolve around them because they are that crazy good.

-Leaders need A LOT of balancing. I am even more shocked that leaders got nothing this patch. The community has given lots of ideas regarding invigorate. Leaders that can play two cards in one turn are going to continue being favored over the others. Eredins old ability whatever it's called has seen next to no play for how long now?? Seriously why does CDPR put so little effort into balancing the game? I'll give one more example here. Ethne's four arrow pings. This ability is so obviously underpowered. I can't believe you guys didn't even do a 1 point provision pass on this stuff. Is it really that hard? I guess we are going to see a lot more Enslave again this coming season. We all love that right? RIGHT?????

-The balancing of cards is just disappointing. You made two changes to SC elves and that's supposed to make some kind of difference????

I really like the quality of life stuff you guys are doing but seriously put at least just as much effort into the actual cards/decks themselves.
Yet people give me a hard time about suggesting ban a leader game mode. Ranked is miserable to play. I was hoping for some obvious changes this patch.
 
-Nothing changed with defenders. The game will continue to revolve around them because they are that crazy good.

-Leaders need A LOT of balancing. I am even more shocked that leaders got nothing this patch. The community has given lots of ideas regarding invigorate. Leaders that can play two cards in one turn are going to continue being favored over the others. Eredins old ability whatever it's called has seen next to no play for how long now?? Seriously why does CDPR put so little effort into balancing the game? I'll give one more example here. Ethne's four arrow pings. This ability is so obviously underpowered. I can't believe you guys didn't even do a 1 point provision pass on this stuff. Is it really that hard? I guess we are going to see a lot more Enslave again this coming season. We all love that right? RIGHT?????

-The balancing of cards is just disappointing. You made two changes to SC elves and that's supposed to make some kind of difference????

I really like the quality of life stuff you guys are doing but seriously put at least just as much effort into the actual cards/decks themselves.
I agree with all your points... I 'll take a break from gwent...
 
-Nothing changed with defenders. The game will continue to revolve around them because they are that crazy good.

-Leaders need A LOT of balancing. I am even more shocked that leaders got nothing this patch. The community has given lots of ideas regarding invigorate. Leaders that can play two cards in one turn are going to continue being favored over the others. Eredins old ability whatever it's called has seen next to no play for how long now?? Seriously why does CDPR put so little effort into balancing the game? I'll give one more example here. Ethne's four arrow pings. This ability is so obviously underpowered. I can't believe you guys didn't even do a 1 point provision pass on this stuff. Is it really that hard? I guess we are going to see a lot more Enslave again this coming season. We all love that right? RIGHT?????

-The balancing of cards is just disappointing. You made two changes to SC elves and that's supposed to make some kind of difference????

I really like the quality of life stuff you guys are doing but seriously put at least just as much effort into the actual cards/decks themselves.
I completely agree. There are so many crappy things and simply broken mechanics. Decoupling leaders, Defenders breaking the Order mechanic, Bribery RNG nonsense, ST spawning 4 engines in one turn (and then adding a Defender) binary and OP Poison crap and many more. Cherry on the cake: my opponent's Affan Hillergrand appearing on the board during the mulligan phase like a beta Wardancer. This game should still be in beta. The devs keep repeating the same mistakes, don't seem to have any system to check, test and manage balance for the stuff they develop, and don't listen. Enough, I'm not going to bother anymore.

Edit, add: Just to add another stupid thing that was obviously not tested (because if intentional it would be completely moronic): Kikimore Worker dueling back when it has no armor and only then destroying itself (Exposed), doing a casual 7 damage back while it should already be dead. The official HC release is fake. This game is still in early beta, but without the beta conditions.
 
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I completely agree. There are so many crappy things and simply broken mechanics. Decoupling leaders, Defenders breaking the Order mechanic, Bribery RNG nonsense, ST spawning 4 engines in one turn (and then adding a Defender) binary and OP Poison crap and many more. Cherry on the cake: my opponent's Affan Hillergrand appearing on the board during the mulligan phase like a beta Wardancer. This game should still be in beta. The devs keep repeating the same mistakes, don't seem to have any system to check, test and manage balance for the stuff they develop, and don't listen. Enough, I'm not going to bother anymore.
Everything you mentioned is what iim having issues with as well.
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I completely agree. There are so many crappy things and simply broken mechanics. Decoupling leaders, Defenders breaking the Order mechanic, Bribery RNG nonsense, ST spawning 4 engines in one turn (and then adding a Defender) binary and OP Poison crap and many more. Cherry on the cake: my opponent's Affan Hillergrand appearing on the board during the mulligan phase like a beta Wardancer. This game should still be in beta. The devs keep repeating the same mistakes, don't seem to have any system to check, test and manage balance for the stuff they develop, and don't listen. Enough, I'm not going to bother anymore.
Even the bronze create for ng is op. Once a protected board is full of assimilate cards the create allows them to play my engines better than me,much like oold slave driver
 

Guest 4368268

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Everything you mentioned is what iim having issues with as well.
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Even the bronze create for ng is op. Once a protected board is full of assimilate cards the create allows them to play my engines better than me,much like oold slave driver
They said they'd fix Nilfgaard many months ago and their way of 'fixing it' was make it play bronzes from any faction that isn't Nilfgaard itself. :think:
 
I had a long post typed up but all I really have to say is the game is really stale right now. We really needed a good balance patch. I have no idea why the devs don't do more balancing. It's really killing the game that they don't.
 
The current hotfix solved the problems of the latest patch. Besides that, as mentioned, the latest patch didn't change much. To me this is a good thing:

Balancing:
As a (longtime) casual player I think that the game is in a pretty balanced state right now. All the factions are playable, there are no oppressive decks like in the past and there are multiple decktypes that you can try. At least this is my impression playing this game on +- Rank 10 maybe it is worse on higher ranks or pro. Of course some cards and leaders could be slightly changed but nothing is really problematic. I'm sorry but I can't take comments about Imperial Diplomacy being OP serious. If your opponent has his board filled with assimilate units and you can't take care of these you have lost. Every card played could be considered OP in this situation.

Defenders:
While I agree that defenders can be hard to deal with I still think that they are perfect as they are and don't need to be changed. Artifacts were criticised a lot because of their binary character. You either had a card to remove the artifact or not and that would very often decide if you could win the game or not. The defender mechanic is different from that because there are so many ways you can deal with them (damage, movement, purify, poision, row effects ...) that I think they are fine. I barely play them myself because they can be really slow and I don't consider them good in every deck. If you take a look at the SK combo with Sukrus and Covenant it sure looks broken at first sight. But you only get like 13 points and their provision cost is much higher. So if my opponent plays this combo I usually just ignore it and play a lot of tempo engines.
The NR defender also looks scary in a heavy engine deck. But usually you already cannot deal with all these engines so it would even be better to put another (high prov) engine in your deck and don't play the defender at all.
In some decks they are useful and strong like in NG soldiers and some monster decks.

So, I think the game is in a good spot right now and doesn't need much balancing or changes. But of course this is just my subjective opinion.
 
Defenders:
While I agree that defenders can be hard to deal with I still think that they are perfect as they are and don't need to be changed. Artifacts were criticised a lot because of their binary character. You either had a card to remove the artifact or not and that would very often decide if you could win the game or not. The defender mechanic is different from that because there are so many ways you can deal with them (damage, movement, purify, poision, row effects ...) that I think they are fine. I barely play them myself because they can be really slow and I don't consider them good in every deck. If you take a look at the SK combo with Sukrus and Covenant it sure looks broken at first sight. But you only get like 13 points and their provision cost is much higher. So if my opponent plays this combo I usually just ignore it and play a lot of tempo engines.
The NR defender also looks scary in a heavy engine deck. But usually you already cannot deal with all these engines so it would even be better to put another (high prov) engine in your deck and don't play the defender at all.
In some decks they are useful and strong like in NG soldiers and some monster decks.

So, I think the game is in a good spot right now and doesn't need much balancing or changes. But of course this is just my subjective opinion.

In order to play competitively at the higher tiers you are required to either play defenders or tech against them. That just screams that they are over powered. Teching against them is absolutely not easy unless of course you are playing a full on control/removal deck. The game does not offer good purify cards for every deck, movement is really only accesible to maybe two factions, poison takes two turns and again is not accessible to all factions, row effects does not stop a defender from doing it's job.

They wouldn't be as big of a deal if they didn't defend an entire row. I don't see how anyone can say that them defending a whole row is balanced. Also the game needs a TON of balancing. Not just some OP cards but also with leaders and under powered or badly designed cards. Leaders are a total joke. Go count how many leader abilities are in the game right now and then see how many of them actually get played. There are a ton of cards that aren't just a little underturned, they are downright unplayable. Cards that sit for months and obviously need their abilities changed. Balance is not good. Having more decks to play than in the past meta's does not mean the game is well balanced. Not even close.
 
Overall, I'm dissapointed. Last month, I played a lot of Gwent. That said, I barely touched classic; only playing that mode if it was part of a reward quest. Seasonal mode was actually fun for once without being easily solved by a meta-deck or a mechanic that the warped ruleset overly favoured. It helped too that MTGA had a rather bad meta, with wall-to-wall Golos/Field of the Dead in all modes that allowed it. For most of Season of the Cat, I was able to play without getting too tilted by Gwent's issues, some of which are part of its DNA, and others that are really down to the design team taking the easy route to pump out an expansion.

In the DNA department, we have immunity that renders cards uninteractable. Defenders have just taken that mechanic to the extreme. Thinking back to Beta days, immunity was always a problem that seemed to lead to a board wipe for the person not able to protect his cards from removal mechanics. So we've moved away from triple-scorch and janky Kambi-combos to a game of engines that either ping or boost played in any combination on an immune row. This denies effecient use of targetted removal, something that's very bad design in a game that has a fixed hand size, small deck and restricts number of copies to one or two of a card. The size restriction forces more strategic use of limited resources as it is, without having to dedicate 2 cards to kill one defender, since they either have armour, or enter out of removal range. Again, we have the old Gwent issue of heavily investing in tech losing overall point value in the deck.

The other DNA issue is of course leader abilities. Outside of Axemen and Greatswords, I can't think of any other oppressive decks that their wincon was some combo involving their leader ability. And always it's either been a card advantage combo or a point slam one. Anything else just doesn't consistently translate to an endstate with more points on the board than your opponent.

Recently, we have seen Mystic Echo's interaction with Novigradian Justice as one such example of one card being able to play two cards to give card and point advantage with tempo. It's sad to see that, despite how unpopular a similar interaction between Brouver+Cleaver/Dwarven Mercenary from the midwinter era was, CDPR don't seem to have taken the lesson to heart. Repacking a busted interaction doesn't balance it. Even changing the problem card is only addressing half the problem. The other half will always be the impact leader ability should have on the design space. It troubles me to see that something as obvious as a special card that tutors and clones any bronze dwarf and can be replayed by a leader in a faction that dwarves are native to isn't flagged for review before it leaves the drawing board.

And with that, we get to the easy route. Probably the most disapointing thing for me has been the realization that the design team have distilled the factions down to a few descriptive keywords and seem to use that to frame card design. This, to me at least, has made faction archetypes seem more homogenised, since many of the new cards just repeat abilities other faction cards already have. To use a car analogy, it's a bit like looking at an Opel Insignia and a Buick Regal - same thing, just with a different badge on the grill. So to for the cards - different art and text, but very similar abilities. And that is to the detriment of other archetypes, since they lose their unique abilities or don't get more specific cards to support them.

Yes, I get that, for CDPR, keeping it simple is more likely to keep them on track. After all, anyone that remembers Thronebreaker's long development can attest to the fact that when CDPR allow themselves to go beyond simple, it leads to long delays and an entirely different product than a simple expansion pack for the basic game. However, Gwent is a game that's full of unfinished archtypes. So rather than pumping out more-of-the-same card types that encapsulate faction keyword descriptives (e.g. NG - enslave, absorb, assimilate), maybe review the archetypes, settle on a few and make support cards that support them without being a spare engine or copy of a key bronze ability. This could even begin to bridge the high tradeoff in points for tech with decent utility body cards that could use the row mechanic to have dual tech effects built into them.
 
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Guest 4336264

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Defenders are balanced as they are!

They need to defend the whole row!

There are plenty of ways to remove a defender - PURIFYING the Defender is pretty damned easy!

Seems to me that those complaining are unhappy because they can't mop the floor so easily with their opponents anymore.

Spawning loads of dwarves, or monsters , or stealing player cards, has suddenly become slightly more difficult a means to win with the arrival of defenders.

If CDPR make Defenders easier to defeat, then they'd just be pointless. I've seen ridiculous suggestions that LOCKING a Defender should block the defend ability (just stupid). And it should continue to defend the ENTIRE row.

Basically, these people don't like it because they can't spawn lots of Commandos or whatever and turn them into revenants that provide a 1 power attack to destroy weaker units.

Meanwhile, spawning rowdy dwarves - loads of em - still allows for random attacks on various units despite having a defender.

There are bigger problems in the game than defenders. Is it really so much to have to include a purify unit, or something else? Sorry if your precious spawn or steal card you'd like to use is taken up by a purify card...
 
I agree with the balancing issue and it's a massive shame because it's extremely important.
The thing is, 2o years ago, card games didn't needed any balance because communication were not as developped, so peoples were just buying boosters, trying to build the best possible deck with their own knowledge of the game and the advice they could get in the process.

The skill were not only about playing your deck but also being able to identify the good cards, the right strategy and establish a functional deck.

Now this aspect changed drastically. Peoples just check on the internet and get the best list of the moment. For this reason, the skill required to win a game is minimal if the balance is poor (even the best of players will lose if they're playing with strictly worst cards/archetype).

While they can't do much about RNG (because CCG will always have a decent part of it), they can, however do something about balance and this is crucial if you want your game to make sense.

That's something very few game developpers understand, btw but it would be really nice if CDPR could be among the first to figure that out because it used to be a time where you could see they made their best and the balance issues were mostly due to the lack of experience but now it straight up feels like they don't care anymore. I mean, some of the cards they design are so obviously broken, it shocks me when I read them before they're even available.
 
Defenders are balanced as they are!

They need to defend the whole row!

There are plenty of ways to remove a defender - PURIFYING the Defender is pretty damned easy!

Seems to me that those complaining are unhappy because they can't mop the floor so easily with their opponents anymore.

Wrong. I am doing great right now. Currently at rank 2 and on my way to rank 1. How am I doing that? Of course by abusing defenders as much as possible. The game revolves around them either get on the train or get left behind. Is your only argument that you can purify defenders? Ok I'll just shoehorn purify into every one of my decks because defenders are totally not overpowered. That makes sense.

Spawning loads of dwarves, or monsters , or stealing player cards, has suddenly become slightly more difficult a means to win with the arrival of defenders.

I guess you missed how all of those things are now easier because of defenders? Have you not seen NG everywhere replaying enslave because they have a row protected by a defender? Dwarf decks totally don't protect engines with a defender right?

If CDPR make Defenders easier to defeat, then they'd just be pointless. I've seen ridiculous suggestions that LOCKING a Defender should block the defend ability (just stupid). And it should continue to defend the ENTIRE row.

They don't have to be weaker but they either should not be defending the whole row OR they need to have a much higher provision cost. It's silly that every deck in the game can easily slap one of these in it and it's basically always better (if there is anything to protect of course).

Basically, these people don't like it because they can't spawn lots of Commandos or whatever and turn them into revenants that provide a 1 power attack to destroy weaker units.

That's silly. Those decks can most likely benefit from defenders as well.


There are bigger problems in the game than defenders. Is it really so much to have to include a purify unit, or something else? Sorry if your precious spawn or steal card you'd like to use is taken up by a purify card...

There are plenty of issues with the game. Defenders is a big one that makes some of the other ones worse. Bribery for example might not be so bad if defenders didn't make it so much easier to play it a second time.
 

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Wrong. I am doing great right now. Currently at rank 2 and on my way to rank 1. How am I doing that? Of course by abusing defenders as much as possible. The game revolves around them either get on the train or get left behind. Is your only argument that you can purify defenders? Ok I'll just shoehorn purify into every one of my decks because defenders are totally not overpowered. That makes sense.



I guess you missed how all of those things are now easier because of defenders? Have you not seen NG everywhere replaying enslave because they have a row protected by a defender? Dwarf decks totally don't protect engines with a defender right?



They don't have to be weaker but they either should not be defending the whole row OR they need to have a much higher provision cost. It's silly that every deck in the game can easily slap one of these in it and it's basically always better (if there is anything to protect of course).



That's silly. Those decks can most likely benefit from defenders as well.




There are plenty of issues with the game. Defenders is a big one that makes some of the other ones worse. Bribery for example might not be so bad if defenders didn't make it so much easier to play it a second time.
Well, sound like you know what you're talking about so I'll quietly slink away... :oops::giveup:
 
Defenders are balanced as they are!

They need to defend the whole row!

There are plenty of ways to remove a defender - PURIFYING the Defender is pretty damned easy!

Seems to me that those complaining are unhappy because they can't mop the floor so easily with their opponents anymore.

Spawning loads of dwarves, or monsters , or stealing player cards, has suddenly become slightly more difficult a means to win with the arrival of defenders.

If CDPR make Defenders easier to defeat, then they'd just be pointless. I've seen ridiculous suggestions that LOCKING a Defender should block the defend ability (just stupid). And it should continue to defend the ENTIRE row.

Basically, these people don't like it because they can't spawn lots of Commandos or whatever and turn them into revenants that provide a 1 power attack to destroy weaker units.

Meanwhile, spawning rowdy dwarves - loads of em - still allows for random attacks on various units despite having a defender.

There are bigger problems in the game than defenders. Is it really so much to have to include a purify unit, or something else? Sorry if your precious spawn or steal card you'd like to use is taken up by a purify card...
I actually disagree with your whole point.
First of all, why does everyone seems to only think about balance to establish whether or not a card is a problem? Balance is important but it's not everything.

The problem of Defenders isn't balance but design. The reason why CDPR put them in the game is because Gwent's control is too aggressive...So instead of redesigning the game to make it more playable they went for the lazy option: Make a card type that kills control.

Here's the thing though, Gwent (and every card game, for that matter) is about playing with another player, interraction is everything, this is where the fun of the game comes.

Damaging this unit so I can work towards removing it, locking that one to slows down your value, boosting this ally to put it out of range of a specific removal....That's what the game is about. If you remove that aspect, the game become boring as hell.

And that's specifically the problem with defenders, they basically read "Draw your purify or stop playing the game" which is an incredibly poor choice of effect if you ask me.

Like, good lord, Gwent already lacks of interraction between players (compared to a lot of other CCG) but now they straight up make a card type that removes it altogether, what a brilliant idea.

Also, it's funny how CDPR clearly realized that overusing immune was a bad idea (which ended up by redesigning multiple card, Eredin's effect, Avallach ect) just to make a card type that virtually give immune to an entire row until it leaves the board...
 
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