Why have voiced protagonist?

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Well, devs stated some things that ended not being true either by being changed during development or other reasons (like perceived fun).
And actually yes, V is less defined than Geralt as you can choose how V looks and a little about it's background, but that's it.

You'll still be doing things not because you wants to, but because V wants to. You'll still be spending time with people you don't know nor you care about, because V does.

I personally think as V as just a step in the good direction, but by far not a persona I create and even less my avatar to immerse myself in another world.
You can think about i what you want it’s your character but there are several interviews where the devs said v is an avatar for the player you can find a video too i think the devs name is miles(Nice guy by the way).There are some things in rpgs which are set like jobs,what is your goal etc so limitations are always there but with v you have more or less a blank slate.I think your alias is just there so people can refer you with something or also to hide your true identity. Topic:What would have been cool if your voice would change to more a robotic one if you’re full of implants.
 
Outer Worlds seemed to do quite well.
Outer Worlds is directed at RPG fans ... the folks that bought/liked New Vegas ... not FPS fans or the "MASS MARKET".

All the little "ease of play" features (minimaps, quest markers, etc.) that have become commonplace these days are also one of the reason for voiced characters.
"Play a game" not "play a role".
 

Nefla

Forum regular
I like silent protagonists. However, I don't think it works in this sort of game. I think it works in other types of games, a la Skyrim or Oblivion, which are more sandbox in nature. In fact, if ES 6 has a voiced protagonist, I'm probably not going to play it.
What's different about this type of game vs TES and so on that makes a silent protagonist work there but not here?

:ROFLMAO:
To sum up: Voiced or silent, at the end of the day it makes no real difference when it comes to immersion. Neither does it affect role-playing in any particularly meaningful way; it's perfectly possible to "override" or add to a voiced protagonist in one's mind if one so chooses. I know I often do that with Geralt.
V's going to be voiced, and I've no problem with it, but I would not have a problem with a silent V either. There are much more important aspects -- role-playing and general -- that determine whether a game is enjoyable to me.
I have no problem with a voice protagonist in general. In a fixed protagonist or cinematic game like TW3 or Detroit Become Human or any number of others it works great and enhances the experience. My problem with a voiced protagonist in this case is that it does affect roleplaying in that it limits the number of dialogue options you can have (since text is way cheaper than VO) and thus the number of ways you can shape your character's personality. As far as I'm aware V has some set attributes but is largely a character we're supposed to shape ourselves and the more options to do that through dialogue and choices the better IMO.

I wonder how many of you wanting a silent protagonist were / are PnP players ? You people are used to voicing your characters .
You need friends if you want to play PnP haha :ROFLMAO:............................................:cry:

Except we are making our own V like Mass Effect with Shepard.
Mute characters in games CDPR are trying to make just dont fit and those who want proper RPGs in the first place will go and play something like DOS2, Pathfinder.
CDPR will never go for a mute character because their priority is story and characterization, they want us to feel for the character we play and how he/she creates relationships with others, you can't have that in a convincing way if the player character is mute.
There are pros and cons to both sides, but the way CDPR makes their games i will choose the voiced protagonist every time.
I don't see why we couldn't have characterization and story without VO. It's not like those things were invented before VO and things like text based games, comics, and books have no problem in that aspect. I know we're not supposed to talk about this at all, but you can SEE Shepard. Voice and face go together IMO and that's all I'll say about that. With a silent protagonist they're able to give way more dialogue options including lots of optional ones based on reputation, stats and abilities, past actions, things you're carrying, etc...That just isn't possible with a voiced protagonist because it's so much extra work and cost compared to text only. If you look at games like Dragon Age: Origins going into DA2 or Fallout New Vegas going into Fallout 4 the dialogue became extremely limited as a result of the transition from silent to voiced. For me there is far more characterization (and replay value) in getting to shape your character's personality in as many ways as possible than there is in hearing them speak. If I want to hear a voice I can just read it out loud however I want.

Yeah, it would. The voice alone brings in a boatload of predefinement. It's much easier to feel an ownership over the character and tolerate the possible "narrowness" of options, if I can interpret the lines as per how the dialog situation feels to me instead of having those lines read to me by a voice that might not match my idea of the character or his stance on the situation at all.
That's true, there are so many ways one could interpret most lines with different motivations or emotions behind it. There's also the problem of the "summary" dialogue options where you only get a short description of what your character says and half the time that snippet doesn't describe it well at all and you end up saying something you never intended to say. @_@

As to voiced character, I don't care one way or the other. But it's become the norm for AAA titles, and so there's no way that they could do a silent character even if they wanted to. It wouldn't sell to the masses.
I feel like "the masses" are the reason we can't have nice things anymore T_T "the masses" are the ones buying lootboxes and microtransactions on a huge scale prompting the game companies to keep slapping them on.

In regards to a voiced protagonist somehow infringing on the ability of the player to express the character as they see fit... I just don't see it. That viewpoint certainly isn't wrong. I just don't understand why it's a huge downside to getting some type of feedback from the character. The player can choose to pretend how their character feels or thinks whether there is a voice behind this feedback or not. More importantly, those feelings and thoughts have zero game play implications unless the 1's and 0's behind the game say they do.
My problem with a voiced protagonist isn't that the voice itself prohibits expression, it's that voicing lines of dialogue is much more expensive and time consuming than simple text options which invariably results in fewer dialogue options.

Anyone who doesn't want a voiced protagonist needs to go through all the gameplay footage and imagines every dialogue section without VA, it's awkward as fuck and doesn't work with how CDPR wants to do the dialogue system and interactive cutscenes.
You can't have a cinematic game and a mute character, it just ends up looking dumb, Destiny 2 is a great example, every cutscene in that game looks ridiculous because the player character just stares like a moron to everything happening around him because that's supposed to be "us" and has no voice, but it just doesn't work.
For this to work CDPR would need a whole new way to go about this, but creating cinematic experiences with RPG elements is their strength and they will stick to it, its also what sells more and what more people prefer so there's that.
It's not awkward to me and I don't see how it would affect the interactive cutscenes. What makes you say this will be a cinematic game? Nothing I've seen leads me to believe that and even in your example you note that you can SEE your Destiny character staring like a moron. There's none of that here since we can't see our character they could be making any face we imagine.

Outer Worlds is directed at RPG fans ... the folks that bought/liked New Vegas ... not FPS fans or the "MASS MARKET".

All the little "ease of play" features (minimaps, quest markers, etc.) that have become commonplace these days are also one of the reason for voiced characters.
"Play a game" not "play a role".
I'm told that Cyberpunk 2077 IS an RPG, is that wrong? From what we've seen so far it does seem more like an action game/FPS but I'm expecting or at least hoping that there will be more to it that we just haven't been shown yet right?
 
The problem of a voiced character is that he has a predetermined role to play by the speaker.
For me as a role player, it is so impossible to play an arrogant or shy character, when the spoken friendly comes across.
A bad decision for an RPG.
 
I'll reserve judgment for this particular feature until after I've played the game. A voiced protagonist can either be an enormous asset or hindrance to a game, but without knowing the extent of how defined V is or how the writing is handled, I can't really say how this will turn out.

CDPR has, at the very least, shown they're capable of writing well enough that a voiced protagonist can work in an open world RPG. If they were as bad at writing and other areas as Bethesda, then I'd say the voiced protagonist is a massive mistake.

That being said, it certainly changes the type of game this will be. A voiced protagonist is excellent for a predefined character like Joel from the Last of Us or John-117 from Halo. In these cases the voice embodies the character and it becomes almost legendary. It's also better suited to more linear narratives.

A voiced protagonist doesn't change whether or not the game is an RPG though, so I don't know why that's being incessantly discussed despite the multitude of warnings from the moderating team. It only changes the way the RPG is presented and the player/character role.

I will say this though: If it's their desire to have a highly replayable game, then the voice is a mistake. If it's their goal to have a number of different character types or different kinds of choices, then it's a big mistake. If it's their goal to allow us to create our own characters, to roleplay those characters, their emotions, how they react to the world and to be truly open, then it's a big mistake.

The voice will absolutely destroy the game in that case. The player will always find themselves fighting the voice, being continually hindered in their RP ability and it will not allow for deviance from the pre-defined (even if not the intent) character.

TL;DR: The voiced protagonist will either make or break this game. It's very easy for a voiced protagonist to absolutely ruin a particular type of RPG.
 
What's different about this type of game vs TES and so on that makes a silent protagonist work there but not here?


I have no problem with a voice protagonist in general. In a fixed protagonist or cinematic game like TW3 or Detroit Become Human or any number of others it works great and enhances the experience. My problem with a voiced protagonist in this case is that it does affect roleplaying in that it limits the number of dialogue options you can have (since text is way cheaper than VO) and thus the number of ways you can shape your character's personality. As far as I'm aware V has some set attributes but is largely a character we're supposed to shape ourselves and the more options to do that through dialogue and choices the better IMO.


You need friends if you want to play PnP haha :ROFLMAO:............................................:cry:


I don't see why we couldn't have characterization and story without VO. It's not like those things were invented before VO and things like text based games, comics, and books have no problem in that aspect. I know we're not supposed to talk about this at all, but you can SEE Shepard. Voice and face go together IMO and that's all I'll say about that. With a silent protagonist they're able to give way more dialogue options including lots of optional ones based on reputation, stats and abilities, past actions, things you're carrying, etc...That just isn't possible with a voiced protagonist because it's so much extra work and cost compared to text only. If you look at games like Dragon Age: Origins going into DA2 or Fallout New Vegas going into Fallout 4 the dialogue became extremely limited as a result of the transition from silent to voiced. For me there is far more characterization (and replay value) in getting to shape your character's personality in as many ways as possible than there is in hearing them speak. If I want to hear a voice I can just read it out loud however I want.


That's true, there are so many ways one could interpret most lines with different motivations or emotions behind it. There's also the problem of the "summary" dialogue options where you only get a short description of what your character says and half the time that snippet doesn't describe it well at all and you end up saying something you never intended to say. @_@


I feel like "the masses" are the reason we can't have nice things anymore T_T "the masses" are the ones buying lootboxes and microtransactions on a huge scale prompting the game companies to keep slapping them on.


My problem with a voiced protagonist isn't that the voice itself prohibits expression, it's that voicing lines of dialogue is much more expensive and time consuming than simple text options which invariably results in fewer dialogue options.


It's not awkward to me and I don't see how it would affect the interactive cutscenes. What makes you say this will be a cinematic game? Nothing I've seen leads me to believe that and even in your example you note that you can SEE your Destiny character staring like a moron. There's none of that here since we can't see our character they could be making any face we imagine.


I'm told that Cyberpunk 2077 IS an RPG, is that wrong? From what we've seen so far it does seem more like an action game/FPS but I'm expecting or at least hoping that there will be more to it that we just haven't been shown yet right?
I thought I already explained this, but I'll give it another shot in case I was a bit vague (As I often am): It's the nature of the games.

Elder Scrolls games are built around you doing whatever you want, playing whoever you want, killing whoever you want, and basically just having sandbox mayhem and fun.

CDPR games are the exact opposite in just about every conceivable way. Yes, this game lets you "create your own character," but only to a certain degree, and it its by no means a sandbox game.

Sandbox RPG games do not (IMO) need voiced protagonists, nor do I think they benefit from them. Quite the opposite, actually. Blank slates are beneficial in that specific context. Not in this context, IMO. What if Geralt were silent? It'd be weird. I wouldn't like it. V is, to me, still Geralt, just a slightly more freeform version.

Where cinematic storytelling is a focus, and indeed story itself is a focus, a voiced protagonist can work wonders. It does not always work wonders, and you can have an excellent story without voice acted protagonists, but context matters.
 
I thought I already explained this, but I'll give it another shot in case I was a bit vague (As I often am): It's the nature of the games.

Elder Scrolls games are built around you doing whatever you want, playing whoever you want, killing whoever you want, and basically just having sandbox mayhem and fun.

CDPR games are the exact opposite in just about every conceivable way. Yes, this game lets you "create your own character," but only to a certain degree, and it its by no means a sandbox game.

Sandbox RPG games do not (IMO) need voiced protagonists, nor do I think they benefit from them. Quite the opposite, actually. Blank slates are beneficial in that specific context. Not in this context, IMO. What if Geralt were silent? It'd be weird. I wouldn't like it. V is, to me, still Geralt, just a slightly more freeform version.

Where cinematic storytelling is a focus, and indeed story itself is a focus, a voiced protagonist can work wonders. It does not always work wonders, and you can have an excellent story without voice acted protagonists, but context matters.
DOESN'T this game let you do whatever you want, kill whoever you want, etc..? Maybe that's just my assumption and we need to see more but so far to me the only thing that's separating V from the Dragonborn or similar is that they have a voiceover. If they didn't, it doesn't seem like they'd be very different (aside from genre and writing quality obviously).
 
EDIT: I don't want the forum locked, so I took out the first part. I'm sorry about talking about visuals.

As for a silent protagonist, I think it could go either way in Cyberpunk 2077. At first I thought that with the setting, the only way is to have your character vocal. But the character Adol in the Ys series doesn't and the story of the Lacrimosa of Dana didn't lose the impact on your main character not speaking. I think it just depends on having a silent protagonist done in a certain way that can make it just as an impact as a voiced one.

Pokemon goes a neutral route as it doesn't matter either way if they speak, The Zelda series does it well, even after they added voiced characters of everyone else. It could work, might be cool to have it as an option to just kinda.. mute your character to see how that does. Could even be an implant? You give up your voice to have something better? Or even a character design to have a character that doesn't talk much? Same dialogue as more talkative characters, but just shorter sentences or grunts? It would be cool to possibly have.
 
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This isn't to cause any arguments, but those that are having major issues with FPP(I personally like TPP better, but it's what it is) because you can't see your characters or the details you do to them, or for whatever reason it takes you out of immersion: People are in FPP. We can't see ourselves until we look in a mirror or window no matter how much work we put into ourselves. And only seeing a character in TPP in some cutscenes is just like seeing yourself in a video.

I can see the argument, people have their tastes for perspective in games. I like Third Person a lot more as well. Just the longer the topic is talked about, the more worn out the topic gets as it's the same thing over and over. The motion-sickness part was talked about, I think. But the angle of, 'I can't see my characters face' feels close to, 'I can't see my own face'.

As for a silent protagonist, I think it could go either way in Cyberpunk 2077. At first I thought that with the setting, the only way is to have your character vocal. But the character Adol in the Ys series doesn't and the story of the Lacrimosa of Dana didn't lose the impact on your main character not speaking. I think it just depends on having a silent protagonist done in a certain way that can make it just as an impact as a voiced one.

Pokemon goes a neutral route as it doesn't matter either way if they speak, The Zelda series does it well, even after they added voiced characters of everyone else. It could work, might be cool to have it as an option to just kinda.. mute your character to see how that does. Could even be an implant? You give up your voice to have something better? Or even a character design to have a character that doesn't talk much? Same dialogue as more talkative characters, but just shorter sentences or grunts? It would be cool to possibly have.
We're not allowed to talk about perspective, it could get the thread locked. :(

Now you make me want to have a character who yells in guttural gibberish lol
 
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To me, I like voice acting as much as text only, but certainly both have different pros and cons, and I'd prefer if everyone together either "do", or "do not" talk, since I don't believe much in the concept that a mute character can be a conduit for the player's emotions and expressions (EDIT: when he's around people who do speak but not him), but I won't develop this point unless asked.

Regarding voice custom, I'm still hoping that they'll include an option for voice pitching ; still in my wish list for this game :p

The voiced protagonist will either make or break this game.

My main concern with voiced characters (aside from bad acting, lol) relies on the repetition of sentences. The way the developers balance this repetition and provide a good amount of speeches for unimportant NPCs. I guess it's a tedious task to record dozens of sentences just for a feature that the player won't notice if the work is well done... but will be point out as a bad thing if the player notice the same punchline every 5 minutes over and over. But that are things I consider important for an immersive RPG. If for an action-adventure game, or something more "arcade-y", I wouldn't care much.

The thing is, CP77 seems to be that game in which you'll be able to catch parts of conversation around every corner of the streets ; in order to make that right, I guess that either 90% of the sentences are written so they can be shared through every NPC because the subjects are mundane (That's a common thing in many many RPGs : "It was rainy yesterday / I lost my cat again / etc.") ; Another (more complex) method could be to cut the subjects, locations, people apart from the sentences and distributes them at the right occasion (ex : "I lost my [dog / car / dad] again...), but I doubt that it will be the case since it would be a hell for voicing the translated versions then...

So I bet on the first option, or maybe they bruteforced the problem by recording hundreds of people.
 
DOESN'T this game let you do whatever you want, kill whoever you want, etc..? Maybe that's just my assumption and we need to see more but so far to me the only thing that's separating V from the Dragonborn or similar is that they have a voiceover. If they didn't, it doesn't seem like they'd be very different (aside from genre and writing quality obviously).
Nope, definitely not. This is not an open world sandbox, it's a story-driven RPG that happens to be set in an open world.

Many NPCs will be essential, you won't be able to pickpocket people or mess around with physics, you can't enter most of the buildings (And the ones you can will have some sort of purpose versus just being a sandbox for you to mess with), the NPCs are all randomly generated (except for a few quest-related ones) without any sense of persistence or consistency...

Basically, in 2077, the world is just a vehicle for the story to travel on. This is not a bad thing, just a statement of fact.

In Skyrim, the world is a playground for players to do as they wish.

Hopefully that makes more sense. If not, I honestly don't know how else to explain it. Also, we are quite off topic here, so my bad.
 
We're not allowed to talk about perspective, it could get the thread locked. :(

Now you make me want to have a character who yells in guttural gibberish lol
Oh, I'm sorry! I'm still not super sure how forums work, can I cut all the perspective talk out so it doesn't get locked? EDIT: Oh! I can edit it. I took down the first part!

I also just imagined an Iron Bull like character running around Night City.
 
What's different about this type of game vs TES and so on that makes a silent protagonist work there but not here?

I think major difference is whether devs intend to make the game that is similar real world or not. In real world, people interact one another, exchanging their opinions, shaking their hands, and so on.

In this case, adding silent protagonist is not to go. Because it's unnatural. If you want to make the game believable, everything of the game should be believable. Story should make sense, characters should act like real human, environment should be realistic. I think it's the CDPR's main goal. They don't want you to think you are playing just video game. They wanna give you most believable, immersive experiences. Well, at least it seems they don't want to show you oblivion-ish world :shrug:


 
Outer Worlds is directed at RPG fans ... the folks that bought/liked New Vegas ... not FPS fans or the "MASS MARKET".

Well, you can be a lot of minds about the FPS part. The gamesounds to be pretty straightforward about it, and devs also said: ”The game is in first person, so it kinda has to work like an FPS” (which, of course, is a ludicrous claim). But it handles the player character and narrative the right way in that... no voice (with the elaboration that it’s not really ”your” character anymore once the developer starts dictating how s/he sounds”) and no essential NPC’s.

For a sidenote, it’s been kinda funny to note in the past year and half, that if you call CP an FPS, the response you get, is ”no, it’s rpg pure and simple”, and when you talk about RPG elements and mechanics that you think should exist, you get: ”no it’s not a proper RPG, go play DOS or PoE”. :)
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In this case, adding silent protagonist is not to go. Because it's unnatural. If you want to make the game believable, everything of the game should be believable. Story should make sense, characters should act like real human, environment should be realistic. I think it's the CDPR's main goal. They don't want you to think you are playing just video game. They wanna give you most believable, immersive experiences.

I don’t think it’s really all that unnatural. It’s kind of the point of roleplaying to step in anothers shoes and act out from there (within the confines of the game); silent protagonist allows you to absorb the role and make your own decisions about it (it requires some tolerance of abstraction, since you are not simply aiding a premade bot in his premade journey, but nevertheless). And don’t you think it is just as... ”gamey” when you are constantly reminded that you are indeed controlling, not your character, but someone elses complete idea of a narrative protagonist? Essentially just a bot like Gordon Freeman (yeah, Gordon never says anything, but you get the point).
 
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I don’t think it’s really all that unnatural. It’s kind of the point of roleplaying to step in anothers shoes and act out from there

Well, I didn't mean it in that point of view. Instead I meant silent protagonist doesn't 'look' natural.

Seeing that NPCs say to me blah blah but my character remains silent is just awkward. Yeah, voice would be heard in my head but still it 'LOOKS' unnatural. And silent protagonist practically restrains the scene system. Just imagine Stout's bodyguard hit V's head but his/her voice is gone. Maybe some dedicated RPG fans would consciously imagine V's voice that expresses his/her hardships in that moment, but rest of players would feel something is gone. People expect video game would look realistic and cinematic. So that they don't need to rack their brain for dynamic and intense feeling like when reading novel. Silent character doesn't erase all of that feeling though, but at least it doesn't help this.

CDPR wanna give you this kind of experiences. So they chose voiced protagonist. That's it.
 
Question to those, who want to play mute character. How exactly are you "roleplaying" a silent protagonist? Are you reading out loud? Are you imagining how the character would sound in your head? What happen when you are a male but you are playing a female? Will you read out loud in high-pitched voice? Not want to be disrespectful, I'm really curious.

My suggestion will be to turn off all the dialogue sound off - this way you can roleplay not only your character, but all the other ones. Hell, do a stream play with your friends and they can read out other character lines loud for you.

There, "problem" solved.
 
Are you reading out loud?
Sometimes.
Are you imagining how the character would sound in your head?
Very rarely.
What happen when you are a male but you are playing a female? Will you read out loud in high-pitched voice?
I can only talk about the other way around, but to me it makes no difference when my character is a male. I very rarely give my characters voices; I just use my own. I'm not quite that dedicated.
 
I'm told that Cyberpunk 2077 IS an RPG, is that wrong? From what we've seen so far it does seem more like an action game/FPS but I'm expecting or at least hoping that there will be more to it that we just haven't been shown yet right?
If you think a story-line, limited character customization (you're ALWAYS 'V'), a limited character skill set (pretty much all geared toward making you more effective with combat [usually with specific weaponry] OR allow you to pick/bypass locks), FPS gameplay, character stats/skills being pretty irrelevent other then determining what weaponry you can use and adding 'perks' (i.e. specialized combat actions), some (probably branching) dialog, quests, character (and NPC) levels, and such make a game an RPG then it's an RPG.

What we've seen so far leads me classify it an an FPS/Action Game with some RPG elements.

As to voiced/non-voiced generally voiced games have far fewer dialog options because you have to record everything and pay the voice actors. Every play the original "Torment"? The game would be at least double the size (if not more) and due to voice actor pay double the cost were it voice acted.

For a sidenote, it’s been kinda funny to note in the past year and half, that if you call CP an FPS, the response you get, is ”no, it’s rpg pure and simple”, and when you talk about RPG elements and mechanics that you think should exist, you get: ”no it’s not a proper RPG, go play DOS or PoE”. :)
As I said above, if you think adding a few RPG elements to an FPS makes it an RPG (and many apparently do) then it's an RPG. I disagree.
 
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As to voiced/non-voiced generally voiced games have far fewer dialog options because you have to record everything and pay the voice actors. Every play the original "Torment"? The game would be at least double the size (if not more) and due to voice actor pay double the cost were it voice acted.

Do they though? I've seen this comment several times. The idea a voiced protagonist somehow reduces the dialogue. I wouldn't say TW3 had limited dialogue. Compared to other games referred to as "RPG's". TES titles could fit for the silent protagonist side of the coin. I'm trying to think of all the games I've played and, based on memory, do not believe there is any clear consistency between the quality or scope of dialogue with respect to voiced vs silent protagonists.

Also, do the writers or designers of the dialogue even do the work going into the voice-overs for the protagonist? I ask because I really don't know.
 
In this case, adding silent protagonist is not to go. Because it's unnatural. If you want to make the game believable, everything of the game should be believable. Story should make sense, characters should act like real human, environment should be realistic. I think it's the CDPR's main goal.

Then the game will be VR, isn't it?
Because naturally humans doesn't always wears a cervical collar nor horse blinders.:smart:
 
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