E3 2020 & Gamescom: Third Demo Suggestion

[Nikola_Nesic]

Witcher 3 by march 2016 sold 10 million copies, by june 2019 they sold 40 million copies half of that Witcher 3, and that is 3rd game in trilogy where people already know what to expect, and few of those "Cyberpunk 2077 analyst sales" talk how they are not sure if game will sale so much since it is Cyberpunk theme subgenre of Sci-fi that many don't like it.

Expectations don't always come out how you hope they would be, Warcraft 3 Reforged was expected to be great game to but it turn to be big crap, also, to say that celebrity actors need to pay game company to be in their game so they can get some fame, is so stupid and unreal.

They didn't talk about CP2077 for almost 6 years, we got one demo in 2018 that at this point is to old, and things change so much from then, in 2019 we got one short and bad edited demo, gameplay demo where someone explore some part of the city maybe do some side quest, show talent tree in deep, skills how they work, how atributes affect gear, your talents and skills, to show different options to get from point A to point B.

And no narrator, show me gameplay and then let dev say more about skill/talents/attributes when that part of video came, but no narrator to tell me what is going on when you can perfectly see all that.

 

[CyberBobber]

Witcher 3 by march 2016 sold 10 million copies, by june 2019 they sold 40 million copies half of that Witcher 3, and that is 3rd game in trilogy where people already know what to expect, and few of those "Cyberpunk 2077 analyst sales" talk how they are not sure if game will sale so much since it is Cyberpunk theme subgenre of Sci-fi that many don't like it.

Expectations don't always come out how you hope they would be, Warcraft 3 Reforged was expected to be great game to but it turn to be big crap, also, to say that celebrity actors need to pay game company to be in their game so they can get some fame, is so stupid and unreal.

They didn't talk about CP2077 for almost 6 years, we got one demo in 2018 that at this point is to old, and things change so much from then, in 2019 we got one short and bad edited demo, gameplay demo where someone explore some part of the city maybe do some side quest, show talent tree in deep, skills how they work, how atributes affect gear, your talents and skills, to show different options to get from point A to point B.

And no narrator, show me gameplay and then let dev say more about skill/talents/attributes when that part of video came, but no narrator to tell me what is going on when you can perfectly see all that.

Alright, I let you win. My whole point was no dont need to pre-order, just wait couple days and read some reviews to see if you like the game or no. If you want to give suggestions, theres own sub-forum for that kind of stuff.

Still fun to see how stats, talents, skills, gears, vehicles etc gets people excited. Im long time MMORPG gamer so I might have gotten enough of those. Played ESO a few year, theres stats, skills, gears you name it as much you want, character progression on top of character progression etc.

My next online game is gonna be Diablo 4, hopefully Blizzard delivers.

 

[sinister.sinner]

I wasn't sure where to put this, hope it's ok here.

So I was watching the 2018 gameplay walkthrough again yesterday. Haven't done so in a few month.
Few things I'm curious about:

- in the beginning as V signals the laday in the door to stay in with a hand gesture and immidiatly after that checking on her gun. so that's probs no longer in the game?

- when they demonstrate the takedown with network hacking. this amazing submenu with all the network clusters. is this gone and got completely replaced by the numbers game?

- the only thing that bothered me this time (wasn't so aware before) that ALL NPCs have the same height and 95% of males and females have the same body. very very rarely you see a bigger person. be it muscular or fat. talking just about pedestrians here.

Any of you choombas know about comments on these topics made by CDPR that I'm not aware of or have missed?
Any thoughts?

 

[MayenabDysheebudo]

First, whatever they show, I hope it is UNCUT, no random cuts, just let us see the game, even if it's like 5 minutes

I'd like to see something more about other characters, have you guys seen the announced Funkos? I'm sure there must be more plot relevant characters than those? They keep showing the same characters in the marketing and I'm not sure if they are plot heavy characters or not? Are V's friends just Johnny in his/her head and Jackie? Surely not, so it'd be really nice to have mini character personality presentations.

I know they don't want to spoiler stuff, but how about showing something that is guaranteed great from CDPR? Extremely well written stories and characters, a fun dialogue exchange for example.

Gameplay wise, it'd be nice to see some techie action (if that's still a thing). Character creation/customization.
How about what else you can do in Night City when you're not shooting people/sneaking around? Maybe a mission more focused on dialogue, like inside a club or something, or not even a mission, just a stroll around the city at night.

Well, this is just wishful thinking of course, but regardless of what they show, I repeat, I really hope it's uncut. I didn't really appreciate the Deep Dive Video that much.

 

[Bloodartist]

I'd like CDPR to convince me that this game is actually gonna launch, and show us something that ISN'T liable to change. No matter how small a clip. This "work in progress" excuse is really starting to get old. I just cannot believe that EVERYthing is up in the air still? Sure things are not yet optimized, but seriously. Small gameplay clip of travelling through the city, character creator, something.

Something to convince us that CP2077 isn't gonna turn out another warcraft 3 reforged, a buggy mess with missing textures and stuff. If I didn't have such a big dream of CP2077 and strong faith in CDPR (from all the propaganda), I wouldn't believe the hype. Theres been so little to justify the hype. I don't want the naysayers to be right.

I burned to a crisp when world of darkness online was canceled after 8 years of development. I don't want that to happen again.

 

[Tangsta]

I'd like CDPR to convince me that this game is actually gonna launch

They have never failed us before, so I would rest assured. Warcraft 3 Reforged and the cancellation of an MMO are absolutely unfair comparisons, and I don't think they apply here at all.

 

[CyberBobber]

Something to convince us that CP2077 isn't gonna turn out another warcraft 3 reforged, a buggy mess with missing textures and stuff. If I didn't have such a big dream of CP2077 and strong faith in CDPR (from all the propaganda), I wouldn't believe the hype. Theres been so little to justify the hype. I don't want the naysayers to be right.

Really? Cyberpunk world isnt enough? You want more sci-fi or fantasy right or how about more zombies. Cyberpunk's world and lore is massive to build multiple games, even movies, we know Cyberpunk music has already started, go to Youtube and put "Cyberpunk Music" it has exploded, quick count and 4 mixes from last week. Cyberpunk could even breed more game series, Cyberpunk's Corp Stuff could be enough to make one small game already etc.

Ive this strange feeling this might have somethign to do with Cyberpunk.. Its new sci-fi RPG from Bioware Vets.

Archetype Entertainment

Archetype Entertainment is a video game studio located in Austin, TX. We build epic story-driven roleplaying games.

www.archetype-entertainment.com

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Really? Cyberpunk world isnt enough? You want more sci-fi or fantasy right or how about more zombies. Cyberpunk's world and lore is massive to build multiple games, even movies, we know Cyberpunk music has already started, go to Youtube and put "Cyberpunk Music" it has exploded, quick count and 4 mixes from last week. Cyberpunk could even breed more game series, Cyberpunk's Corp Stuff could be enough to make one small game already etc.

I do not believe it was speaking in terms of the CP world. The amount of content one is able to create from source material isn't very relevant if said content turns out poorly . This is not to say it will turn out poorly.

CDPR is pretty good at dangling the lure. They're good at drawing interest, to put it differently. They could be much better at the reeling in part. A delay followed by another showing of an existing demo to special snowflakes isn't a great way to ease concerns or erase doubt.

 

[CyberBobber]

I do not believe it was speaking in terms of the CP world. The amount of content one is able to create from source material isn't very relevant if said content turns out poorly . This is not to say it will turn out poorly.

CDPR is pretty good at dangling the lure. They're good at drawing interest, to put it differently. They could be much better at the reeling in part. A delay followed by another showing of an existing demo to special snowflakes isn't a great way to ease concerns or erase doubt.

Yeah, bad launch can most definitely bring this down. CPDR just needs to be prepared, there needs to be cool stuff to sell the sequel, sometimes you dont even need that if you release new game every 5 year or so, you can just keep repeating the same stuff, game indusrtry has gotten enough new people to get excited about the game.

 

[Bloodartist]

Really? Cyberpunk world isnt enough? You want more sci-fi or fantasy right or how about more zombies. Cyberpunk's world and lore is massive to build multiple games, even movies, we know Cyberpunk music has already started, go to Youtube and put "Cyberpunk Music" it has exploded, quick count and 4 mixes from last week. Cyberpunk could even breed more game series, Cyberpunk's Corp Stuff could be enough to make one small game already etc.

Ive this strange feeling this might have somethign to do with Cyberpunk.. Its new sci-fi RPG from Bioware Vets.

What the heck are you even answering to? I was not talking about "cyberpunk world", I was talking about CDPR's ability to do what they promise. What they have actually shown so far. It all SOUNDS great, if all there is are developer interviews about how they are gonna do things, what they wanna do, blah blah. But showing that they have actually achieved those promises? That is on thin ice. Talk is cheap.

CP2077 is one of the most ambitious game projects of this decade. They have shown us barely nothing OF it. And what they HAVE shown, comes with the "this is work in progress, it can change"-tag. This does not instill me with confidence on the end product.

 

[CyberBobber]

What the heck are you even answering to? I was not talking about "cyberpunk world", I was talking about CDPR's ability to do what they promise. What they have actually shown so far. It all SOUNDS great, if all there is are developer interviews about how they are gonna do things, what they wanna do, blah blah. But showing that they have actually achieved those promises? That is on thin ice. Talk is cheap.

CP2077 is one of the most ambitious game projects of this decade. They have shown us barely nothing OF it. And what they HAVE shown, comes with the "this is work in progress, it can change"-tag. This does not instill me with confidence on the end product.

Of course they arent gonna tell us if they arent doing well. But you can choose to pre-order or no. For me Cyberpunk World itself is enough to get excited.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Cyberpunk World itself

Do you mean Cyberpunk world of 2020 TT or Cyberpunk genre in general?
Shadowrun games are good cyberpunk games, also Cyberpunk 2020 and Shadowrun are same setting just in one you have magic add, but concept is same powerfull corporations rule the world and use shdaowrunners(not sure what is official term for players in Cyberpunk 2020) to wage a proxy wars against each other.

But yeah, "this is work in progress, it can change" is really old and at this point little stupid, it was ok in 2018 demo, but by now they really need to have everything in place and to know how things going to work.

 

[SigilFey]

But yeah, "this is work in progress, it can change" is really old and at this point little stupid, it was ok in 2018 demo, but by now they really need to have everything in place and to know how things going to work.

Not at all. What I've seen is it can come down to the last day of production before a title goes gold. Even hours before the final version needs to be delivered, devs may be racing to get a feature working, or it can be decided that something just isn't ready and needs to be removed. (Obviously, that's not the way things are planned, nor is it ideal, but if I'm on a team that just spent 16 months trying to get unarmed combat working well...you can bet I'll stay late on the last day to get it in there...and I'll definitely grind my teeth if I hear it's being cut at the last minute.)

 

[Restlessdingo32]

CP2077 is one of the most ambitious game projects of this decade. They have shown us barely nothing OF it. And what they HAVE shown, comes with the "this is work in progress, it can change"-tag. This does not instill me with confidence on the end product.

I don't know if it's fair to say they've shown barely anything about of the game. There has been what, two demos and various tidbits here or there? Granted, a lot of the information has been second hand I believe. This is by design, presumably. It's probably why the "special snowflakes" have been the recipient of specific information instead of... everyone. No need to generate your own hype when you can toss info to the hype professionals and allow them to run with it.

This is what I meant by saying they have always been good at setting the lure but less so at the reeling in phase. They have a tendency to provide just enough information to create the buzz and anticipation. Diving into the details and really nailing it home is another matter. Sure, this may be because things aren't fully, set in stone complete. I can't help but think there is more to it than that though. It's as if information is available but intentionally withheld for some reason.

Obviously, there are pros to playing cards close to your chest. There are also cons. Say, people feeling uneasy, ending up with doubt and raising concerns because they do not feel they've been shown enough. At a certain point statements like work in progress, no comment or trust us begin to lose value.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Not at all. What I've seen is it can come down to the last day of production before a title goes gold. Even hours before the final version needs to be delivered, devs may be racing to get a feature working, or it can be decided that something just isn't ready and needs to be removed.

Some small things can be removed or change in last moment, but not full combat system or how talents and attributes work with each other, and how they effect your character in game events or dialogue, and if you still work on lets say unarmed combat and is still is not good and you are month before game come out, then that is probably some bigger problem and something was not good about it from the start.

 

[Sardukhar]

I don't know if it's fair to say they've shown barely anything about of the game. There has been what, two demos and various tidbits here or there?

Fair bit actually. Not a crazy Full On Hype Press, but lots of evidence of gameplay. More than an hour in fact.

Contrast with Last of Us 2, another very hotly anticipated game this year. Not even 15 minutes. Doom Eternal? What, 10 plus some trailers?

CDPR has shown plenty about the game - people a) simply want more more always more and b) don't like that it's all subject to change. Tough. That's how development goes. It's a work of art, not a lasagna. Which, by the way, can also be delicious works of art.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Fair bit actually. Not a crazy Full On Hype Press, but lots of evidence of gameplay. More than an hour in fact.

Hmm, my wording could have been better. I was attempting to say they have shown a decent amount. I was also attempting to say it's a wide amount of information but didn't go in depth much.

An example would be the first demo where they talked about character customization and progression. It didn't go into much detail. Then when it got to nailing home the available options from the customization and progression it was a, "V can bounce bullets off walls.", and "V can shoot through walls.", type of deal. You can see how a diehard RPG player interested almost exclusively in the RPG side of the coin might view this as typical action RPG mechanics. Sure, you can progress your character in different ways. All those ways just so happen to be providing different ways to kill, main, injure or otherwise destroy hordes of bad guys. Yet, it was vehemently stated, "This game is an RPG.".

In CDPR's defense, this is kind of what was done with The Witcher. In TW3 the progression system consists of different improvements to further your ability to destroy things. About the lone exception would have been Axii. Even that had a lot to do with furthering your ability to destroy things. Where TW3 differed from other run of the mill ARPG's is the narrative, character development and related areas were so good and screamed "RPG" so loudly this was overlooked. CP2077 looks very much like an extension of this formula.

Clearly, this demo synopsis isn't fair because it was an early demo. It's not unreasonable to slap work on progress on this type of stuff because it's probably not ironed out. It may not have even been fully realized what they were attempting to achieve. I believe the second demo went a bit more into the character progression. It elaborated on the system. Again, this is fine.

Yet, here we are now and it appears the information well dried up. I'd expect game development to be like many other things. You start with X, refine it, end up with Y, refine it more, end up with Z. All the while showing off those refinements to further and maintain interest. A delay followed by those showings ceasing to occur is going to create doubt. It's supposedly all polishing. If it were all polishing it would be expected for further information from those refinements to release.

None of this is to say the sky is falling. It's to say people questioning the product after recent developments is understandable and expected.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Fair bit actually. Not a crazy Full On Hype Press, but lots of evidence of gameplay. More than an hour in fact.

Contrast with Last of Us 2, another very hotly anticipated game this year. Not even 15 minutes. Doom Eternal? What, 10 plus some trailers?

I had the exact conversation the other day, the fact is doom and TLOU2 are "more of the same", we already know what to expect and those 10ish minutes were enough to confirm and express "what's new" (better level design, graphics and animations for TLOU; more verticality, flamethrower and the new shotgun for DOOM). And both games come from companies who have 20+ years of established pedigree.

CP77 is a completely new IP with its own complex mechanics, what has been shown is "work in progress" and went through substantial changes from 2018, many doubts in terms of gunplay and driving (increased by "tricky" deep dive demo) and what people who saw the closed door demo is not encouraging. Also, some of the few flaws TW3 had not been addressed in any video and we don't know if they've been addressed at all or not. Furthermore, aRPG is the more inflated genre of the last 5 years, we had tons of them. What has CP77 that lacks everywhere else? What is it adding/improving/revolutionize to the genre? It can't be just good narrative and setting to make it a masterpiece compared to all the ubisoft junk.
In terms of pedigree, CDPR is very young and need to confirm its now established role of AAA studio. CDPR has made 2 excellent games, only one of those is a real AAA game, so I think it's too early to put them in the same group of naughty dog, id software or rockstar. Techland can be a good comparison, probably Remedy too.

Now, I personally think I understood the vast majority of what the game will offer (not that different from TW3), the unanswered question is: what's the quality of it? Why did they hide it behind the deep dive video's editing? And if that was not "hiding", then why don't they just released the uncut video?

 

[Garrison72]

As much as I hate to say it, maybe they shouldn't have shown any gameplay till this year since now they might have to deal with the WIP dilemma. Since this is all new territory for them people are more cautious and expect more in depth info to get a grasp on their cyberpunk take. I still find it odd that for marketing they attended so many trade shows with the same outdated demo. Was it strictly to get a form of private feedback? It certainly did little to market the actual game.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

WIP dilemma

what is it?