Building a gaming PC

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@eskiMoe switch to Linux and chill with AMD :p

@Garrison72: in performance, Navi is competitive with comparable cards. So I don't agree that they aren't even close. But power consumption is something they are improving in RDNA2.
 
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Switching to Linux the day they can offer the same gaming experience as on Windows + some.

When it comes to OS I'm all about convenience, and Linux as it is rn does not interest me.

For gaming/entertainment usage, I have no issues with W10. None. In order for me to switch to Linux it would need to offer something substantially better in every way to Windows, and that's not gonna happen anytime soon.
 
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Where is AMD competitive with Nvidia?

In any benchmarks. But I don't remember which line of cards Navi models match to. Nvidia got increasingly confusing with having tons of similar performing models, with Ti and Super variations all over.

What I mean is, AMD made regular and XT model, and those are comparable to two Nvidia cards. But Nvidia has a lot more variations lower and higher end due to regular, Ti and Super ones.
 
It's good to remember when it comes to AMD vs Nvidia, that Nvidia is like 5x bigger than AMD. And I mean all of AMD, not just their GPU division. They're trying to do the best they can with the resources they have.

But ultimately, If they can't get their driver issues sorted out, they can't really properly compete with Nvidia.
 
It's good to remember when it comes to AMD vs Nvidia, that Nvidia is like 5x bigger than AMD. And I mean all of AMD, not just their GPU division. They're trying to do the best they can with the resources they have.

5x smaller then Nvidia isn't small though. It's not like AMD is some random startup company. Forgive me if I don't buy into a lack of resources. Developing functioning drivers is part of developing GPU hardware. If a company wishes to hop into that ring it's inexcusable to provide poorly functioning drivers.

Hiccups for a few months is one thing. Minor problems are to be expected. Hell, even issues for half a year following a new architecture release is not exactly unexpected. Recurrent major issues such as crashes, black screens, trippy colors, etc. year after year for extended periods every time a new product hits the market is another thing entirely. If it becomes the status quo then, yeah, people are going to avoid those products.

It's actually sad, if anything. For a company to provide respectable hardware but fail so miserably on the software side of the coin.
 
5x smaller then Nvidia isn't small though. It's not like AMD is some random startup company. Forgive me if I don't buy into a lack of resources. Developing functioning drivers is part of developing GPU hardware. If a company wishes to hop into that ring it's inexcusable to provide poorly functioning drivers.

Not sure about their Windows developers, but their Linux kernel team has just a few active ones, at least those that are visible in the mailing lists and bug reports. Might be less than ten people overall. And it took them half a year to sort things out, that combined with backing from Valve and other Mesa developers who were focused on the userland parts (some like from RedHat and Google).

No idea why they are having Windows issues still after even longer period, may be because no one else is backing the effort.
 
In any benchmarks. But I don't remember which line of cards Navi models match to. Nvidia got increasingly confusing with having tons of similar performing models, with Ti and Super variations all over.

What I mean is, AMD made regular and XT model, and those are comparable to two Nvidia cards. But Nvidia has a lot more variations lower and higher end due to regular, Ti and Super ones.

My experience with AMD is their compatibility is shit, let alone the tech. I mean it's great if they make budget cards but if they don't have good driver support what's the point?
 
My experience with AMD is their compatibility is shit, let alone the tech.

Their hardware is better than Nvidia computing wise. Nvidia until recently were ahead in power efficiency. And that is likely to change this year. At least AMD invested a lot to compete on that. So their tech is OK. But the driver support is surely having some weird issues.
 
Their hardware is better than Nvidia computing wise. Nvidia until recently were ahead in power efficiency. And that is likely to change this year. At least AMD invested a lot to compete on that. So their tech is OK. But the driver support is surely having some weird issues.

The drivers and hardware aren't something you can view in a vacuum though. Both of those pieces need to perform and work properly. If one side of this coin is unable to do this the other means absolutely nothing. One month, two months, six months... How about zero months? It doesn't matter if it's Nvidia or AMD. If they release a card it's expected to work on day one. On all the various platforms they claim to support.
 
The drivers and hardware aren't something you can view in a vacuum though. Both of those pieces need to perform and work properly.

And they can, as Linux situation shows. amdgpu fixed various issues that were causing GPU hangs. radeonsi, radv, llvm and aco fixed theirs.

How about zero months?

Unlikely. Even Nvidia can't pull that off. But making that period shorter should be for sure doable.
 
And they can, as Linux situation shows. amdgpu fixed various issues that were causing GPU hangs. radeonsi, radv, llvm and aco fixed theirs.

They can is different from they do work. Your earlier posts indicated the Linux drivers are fine. Various issues causing GPU hangs doesn't sound fine :). Granted, I'm not sure the Windows drivers are directly comparable to the Linux drivers in this context anyway.

Unlikely. Even Nvidia can't pull that off. But making that period shorter should be for sure doable.

Pull it off all of the time, maybe not. Again, when I say work I'm meaning the system functions. I'm still using a 980 TI in a system and I honestly cannot recall a time where it's ever given me a major problem.

Part of the issue I have with this particular topic is it's hard to say where the problem falls. A lot of people tend to violate one of the rules of troubleshooting, or suspect thyself (aka, PEBKAC). They don't tend to do the grunt work to ensure compatibility with the rest of their hardware. Simple tasks like, "Remove driver, reboot, install new driver, reboot.", get reduced to, "Slap in new card, install new driver.". They don't think about installing an update to anything before actually doing it (since, you know, updates can fix things but can also break stuff).

When you make comments like, "Switch to Linux.", it throws a big fat wrench into determining where the problem is because your typical, run of the mill Linux user probably does think about those angles.

Regardless, based on the number and type of horror stories I've seen/heard about I'm led to believe people are considering all of this stuff, doing things "right" and still having critical problems with AMD cards on the driver front. It's not a new thing either. If that is the reality it's hard to defend it.
 
Switching to Linux the day they can offer the same gaming experience as on Windows + some.

When it comes to OS I'm all about convenience, and Linux as it is rn does not interest me.

For gaming/entertainment usage, I have no issues with W10. None. In order for me to switch to Linux it would need to offer something substantially better in every way to Windows, and that's not gonna happen anytime soon.
They can is different from they do work. Your earlier posts indicated the Linux drivers are fine. Various issues causing GPU hangs doesn't sound fine :). Granted, I'm not sure the Windows drivers are directly comparable to the Linux drivers in this context anyway.

For a gamer, Linux absolutely have the potential to be a way better platform and way more convenient than Windows.
The main problem is the selection of games, they need to be ported to GNU/Linux.

What could trigger that is the second problem. Proprietary drivers. This is holding back Linux from being a superior platform to play on compared to Windows. 1. The proprietary drivers are pretty trash on their own 2. Their performance is worse than on Windows
On the other hand, you have open drivers on Linux for both Nvidia and AMD, and these perform better for what they can do than their proprietary counterparts and their Windows counterparts.
IF Amd and Nvidia released their Linux driver under open licence, within 6 months Linux would be a far superior gaming platform to Windows, and it would be the proper incentive for game companies to port their game to Linux as well.

The suggestion to swap to Linux is not absurd, even for a gamer. The inferior quality of the drivers is outweighted by the superior performance of all other hardware AND the operating system under Linux vis'a'vis Windows. Even with worse graphical drivers, general performance for a game should and will be better under GNU/Linux than on Windows.

Will Amd and Nvidia release their drivers for the open market? Highly unlikely. But is there a middle ground? Perhaps.. Open but not free drivers is a possbility. Vulcan replacing OpenGL and/or DirectX is another possibility. A combination of these might end up solving the ultimate problem and make it worthwhile for companies to port their games to GNU/Linux and for gamers to switch to a platform with generally better performance.

Because, ultimately, gamers do care about performance.

The end result would be a GNU/Linux where all hardware works out of the box, and installation which is much faster and easier than Windows, a generally better functional operating system with way better performance across the board and less wasted time on not gaming. I guess alot of gamers have the experience with Windows of having to install, update, reboot, update, reboot etc etc, and it being VERY slow and inconvenient, just to have to complete that and start installing CDs with various drivers. In Linux, no CD's needed, all hardware automatically have drivers and work out of box, updates are efficient and fast, max one reboot (if even 1). If you choose an appropriate and new distro, you don't even have to make any updates.

I can only imagine what community drivers could do for gaming, it could be absolutely amazing, increasing performance over any other drivers ALOT.
 
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You know, Lada also "has a potential" to beat Mercedes in sales...

Gamers do care about performance. But they care more about convenience. They want to just start they computer / console and play. Linux was never able to do that. And it never will be, because for 99,9% of Linux contributors "convenience" and "usability" are two words they don't have in their vocabulary.

Also, the inane argument about Windows updates. Do you even have a modern PC with a Windows 10? First, the updates are happening on monthly basis. So one update day in a month. And since forever there is an option in Windows to just "shut down and install", which costs you zero of your gaming time. So please stop. Linux people are bringing the "but Windows updates" argument are mentally in Windows 98 times.
 
You know, Lada also "has a potential" to beat Mercedes in sales...

Gamers do care about performance. But they care more about convenience. They want to just start they computer / console and play. Linux was never able to do that. And it never will be, because for 99,9% of Linux contributors "convenience" and "usability" are two words they don't have in their vocabulary.

Also, the inane argument about Windows updates. Do you even have a modern PC with a Windows 10? First, the updates are happening on monthly basis. So one update day in a month. And since forever there is an option in Windows to just "shut down and install", which costs you zero of your gaming time. So please stop. Linux people are bringing the "but Windows updates" argument are mentally in Windows 98 times.

Well, problem is that only Lada is selling. Clearly you have no clue about modern GNU/Linux. It's WAY more convenient than Windows, way more stable, way better performance.

You're talking about OEM where all the drivers have been installed for you. What kind of gamer buys OEM? In GNU/Linux everything just works out of box, with non-OEM windows you have to spend tons of time installing drivers and dealing with idiotic things, just to have a system that hogs your resources and is perfectly shabby to use.

Modern GNU/Linux is not even just a Mercedez, it's an electric Bentley. If AMD and Nvidia weren't such holes, GNU/Linux would be the flying car of gaming.

Meanwhile, you're defending what? A system that forces to you to buy a Lada and pay for it every time you buy bread?
 
Well, problem is that only Lada is selling. Clearly you have no clue about modern GNU/Linux. It's WAY more convenient than Windows, way more stable, way better performance.

You're talking about OEM where all the drivers have been installed for you. What kind of gamer buys OEM? In GNU/Linux everything just works out of box, with non-OEM windows you have to spend tons of time installing drivers and dealing with idiotic things, just to have a system that hogs your resources and is perfectly shabby to use.

Modern GNU/Linux is not even just a Mercedez, it's an electric Bentley. If AMD and Nvidia weren't such holes, GNU/Linux would be the flying car of gaming.

Meanwhile, you're defending what? A system that forces to you to buy a Lada and pay for it every time you buy bread?

Every time I hear the same from Linux people: if only NVIDIA this, If only AMD that. If only Linux people came out of their happy bubble and face reality. That when you install a Windows 10 then it will automatically install all the necessary drivers for you. That "resource hog" meme died with Windows XP. That this "electric Bentley" won't run 95% of PC games at all, and 4% will run as an emulation, with worse performance than Windows. That I don't have to defend anything, because you don't have to do that against ONE percent of PC gamers. But please, be my guest: show me how amazing Linux as a gaming platform will be, if only "something something".
 
The suggestion to swap to Linux is not absurd, even for a gamer. The inferior quality of the drivers is outweighted by the superior performance of all other hardware AND the operating system under Linux vis'a'vis Windows. Even with worse graphical drivers, general performance for a game should and will be better under GNU/Linux than on Windows.

It may not be absurd but it's not without considerations. For as far as Linux has come on the gaming front it still lacks native compatibility with every game out there. The reality is in a great number of cases to use games on a Linux distro you have to use workarounds (Wine, not sure on performance impacts from possibly running VMs where necessary, I'd say dual boot but that isn't really "running Linux" completely). Those workarounds don't function equally well for anything you may consider running.

Bear in mind you're speaking to the choir :). I'd say every couple months the back of my mind thinks about dropping Windows completely, going full steam ahead with Linux and flat out avoiding anything unable to function well enough on it to be meet my arbitrary standards for acceptable performance.

I'd rather leave it at that because whenever this topic is brought up it ends up dominating the conversation.
 
I agree, it's not worth discussing further.

In fact, I'm struggling to set up Windows on a desktop computer myself, to move my Gwent activity from console to the PC. Not a top rig, a bit old, gtx770.

Not sure I will use it, but at least I will move over. I kindof liked the sit back with the controller and play Gwent style. Not sure the face in the screen style will fit me well.

Anyone tried playing Gwent on PC with a controller?
 
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