E3 2020 & Gamescom: Third Demo Suggestion

[Draconifors]

Also, Latins said "repetita iuvant".

"Everything in moderation."

There is a point at which repeating the same opinions/critiques/whatever becomes ineffective and even counterproductive.

Too much repetition is not good because it adds nothing new, and never adding anything new leads to nothing ever progressing. In the case of forums it means circular discussions that are just that, circular and never go anywhere except round and round along the exact same tracks. I personally see zero point in that.

(Yes, the same would go for constantly praising the exact same things. That just never happens here.)

In a sense it would be good to get fresh news to digest and discuss, however... I have some doubts.


Ultimately, CDPR are professionals, and therefore what they do or don't show is bound to be a decision with solid reasons behind it -- although (or "even if") said reasons are never revealed. That's part of the reason why I won't care if neither E3 nor Gamescom brings new material; it's not like they owe the community a third demo or anything of the sort. Because they don't.

 

[jt4gov]

Ultimately, CDPR are professionals, and therefore what they do or don't show is bound to be a decision with solid reasons behind it -- although (or "even if") said reasons are never revealed. That's part of the reason why I won't care if neither E3 nor Gamescom brings new material; it's not like they owe the community a third demo or anything of the sort. Because they don't.

Agreed on this, however, I'd also state the opposite as well. With the current state of the gaming industry as a whole, it's reasonable for consumers to be weary. CDPR hasn't given me cause to mistrust them, but that was the same for every other studio at one point, thus I've learned not to trust any of them without seeing the final product.

I'd like to see the way the game has evolved from what we've seen and the lack of showing has made my interest fade, but at the same time, I wouldn't make any purchase decision based on it anyways since it isn't the final released product.

Show a trailer or don't show a trailer won't matter to me much besides some short-lived hype. Studios like Konami, EA and Bethesda taught me to wait a few months after launch to actually purchase.

 

[Snowflakez]

"Everything in moderation."

There is a point at which repeating the same opinions/critiques/whatever becomes ineffective and even counterproductive.

Too much repetition is not good because it adds nothing new, and never adding anything new leads to nothing ever progressing. In the case of forums it means circular discussions that are just that, circular and never go anywhere except round and round along the exact same tracks. I personally see zero point in that.

(Yes, the same would go for constantly praising the exact same things. That just never happens here.)

In a sense it would be good to get fresh news to digest and discuss, however... I have some doubts.


Ultimately, CDPR are professionals, and therefore what they do or don't show is bound to be a decision with solid reasons behind it -- although (or "even if") said reasons are never revealed. That's part of the reason why I won't care if neither E3 nor Gamescom brings new material; it's not like they owe the community a third demo or anything of the sort. Because they don't.

For me and my personal desires to see more content, it's not from a sense of entitlement. I don't think CDPR "owes" me anything. I see that word bandied about far too often in response to criticism of CDPR's marketing strategy, especially on Reddit.

The only thing CDPR owes me is a good game. I've pre-ordered their Collector's Edition, and a normal copy of the game, and have purchased quite a bit of merch as well. I don't regret any of that, because I didn't buy it just to support them (I think all of the posters I got, as well as the jacket and the CE, look awesome). But I have invested myself in the game.

And I'm quite certain they'll deliver. But I'm still going to happily criticize their marketing strategies, and their approach to community management. The 15-minute demo sucked, and I'm tired of seeing Pacifica. Those are opinions. They are free to ignore them. But I want to see more.

I have not seen enough of the game to say whether or not I will personally love it. One more demo would do the job, I think. Honestly, the last demo would have done the job if it wasn't so poorly-edited. But yeah. One more well-edited or uncut demo that shows stuff I actually care about and I'll be happy.

 

[Garrison72]

The wait has officially become painful. I was good for 6 years but now I'm going through Cyberpunk withdrawals like a junkie.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Imho, hiding and secrets are the reason behind conspiracy theory, because what you don't know you need to search for an explanation. That's how human curiosity is.

 

[CyberBobber]

The only thing CDPR owes me is a good game. I've pre-ordered their Collector's Edition, and a normal copy of the game, and have purchased quite a bit of merch as well. I don't regret any of that, because I didn't buy it just to support them (I think all of the posters I got, as well as the jacket and the CE, look awesome). But I have invested myself in the game.

They dont own you anything. If you dont like the game, you get your money back.

 

[Draconifors]

With the current state of the gaming industry as a whole, it's reasonable for consumers to be weary. CDPR hasn't given me cause to mistrust them, but that was the same for every other studio at one point, thus I've learned not to trust any of them without seeing the final product.

I see this comment a lot, and I'm not gonna deny it's a fair one.

I have never been burned; as far as gaming goes the only releases I've truly looked forward to have been Blood and Wine and Thronebreaker, both of which exceeded my expectations by more than a little. So, I suppose it's very easy for me to be confident that the same trend will continue when no dev/studio has ever disappointed me.

because what you don't know you need to search for an explanation.

Or simply wait for an explanation to come. You can't say everyone is like that because people are different.

Some are happy to wait, some will search for an explanation, some will come up with hypotheses and theories.
But, at the end of the day, none of that changes or affects what the true explanation is.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

"Everything in moderation."

I saw this coming before posting. Point is, not necessarily the receipients are devs since there's no way they'll listen to 1 single guy.

it's not like they owe the community a third demo or anything of the sort.

Never said or even thought anything like that.

 

[Draconifors]

Never said or even thought anything like that.

And I never said you did. The reason I put two empty lines before the last paragraph (where the quote is from) is that it wasn't in response your post. Could've done the ------ separator, I guess.

 

[Tangsta]

What I've seen is it can come down to the last day of production before a title goes gold. Even hours before the final version needs to be delivered, devs may be racing to get a feature working, or it can be decided that something just isn't ready and needs to be removed.

Not to mention we live in an era where games are constantly modified post launch as well, via numerous patches and DLC that changes everything from the UI, to combat balance, to narrative endings. Nothing is truly set in stone anymore.

 

[Snowflakez]

They dont own you anything. If you dont like the game, you get your money back.

You can't get your money back unless you buy on Steam. GOG does not have a refund policy unless the game doesn't function.

And yes, of course they owe me a good game. A well-functioning game that performs well on the systems it's supposed to perform well on, and is generally considered a good experience.

If they deliver less than that, that's on them. But I'm not worried here.

 

[SigilFey]

Not to mention we live in an era where games are constantly modified post launch as well, via numerous patches and DLC that changes everything from the UI, to combat balance, to narrative endings. Nothing is truly set in stone anymore.

While I'd say this is a good thing, overall...it definitely cuts both ways. I'm very happy that it's possible to fix problems after the fact, but I'm very tired of games being knowingly released with extremely problematic, if not game-breaking, issues.

I mean, if I know that I'm releasing a game that suffers from FPS drops of >30, crashing on startup across numerous configs, features that have been completely disabled, or advertised content that's simply non-functional or absent...

Tell me so. Just come right out and say it at release: "We're releasing, but we're still hard at work! The following issues are known in v1.0, and will be addressed in the very near future: ..."

Spoiler: Anecdote:

I just recently played around with Mechwarrior 5 on my buddy's system. Was dying to try it, and I'm not disappointed! Very, very cool. Love the slower pace.

So, when he told me that he couldn't get his joystick to work, I was like -- no sweat! I'll figure it out when I come over. It was a Logitech 3D Pro. I have one, too. Stock-standard, basic joystick that works out-of-the-box, UPnP, has been around for years. Great stick for $20-$30. I tried for almost 2 hours to get this thing working. I was following guides for manually entering the configurations and routing the stick via 3rd-party software...

Nope.

They released the first, official Mechwarrior sequel in 20 years...and the studio didn't include joystick support...!? It's the same studio that produced Mechwarrior Online, for crying out loud. And joysticks work perfectly fine there. Been playing MWO for years without issue. It's like a first-person shooter that doesn't offer mouse support by default...

You can't get your money back unless you buy on Steam. GOG does not have a refund policy unless the game doesn't function.

And yes, of course they owe me a good game. A well-functioning game that performs well on the systems it's supposed to perform well on, and is generally considered a good experience.

If they deliver less than that, that's on them. But I'm not worried here.

You can get a refund, as long as the game isn't released yet.

GOG.COM SUPPORT CENTER

support.gog.com

11. WHAT ABOUT PRE-ORDERS?

You can cancel pre-orders at any time before the game's release, and get the money back.

Afterwards, you can get a refund if there are significant technical issues that GOG's Support Team can't rectify. Gifts can be either exchanged for products of equal value, or refunded to the buyer in full.

But, no, I'm not worried about CP2077 at all, either. For a game this huge to be released without any issues at all would be virtually impossible. But, like TW3, I'm fully expecting to get totally sucked in by the experience, regardless of a few performance dips or bugs.

On the marketing end, I can understand why people are feeling a little jaded with seeing similar things over time. But that may also be why they're not releasing further demos. If that's all they can reveal for whatever reasons, less may be more.

 

[Mebrilia]

Just dropping this over here. The moment someone want to propose you a sale you are "Entitled" to demand more information about the product.

Since the game was already delayed and all we know is basic stuff or infos that comes in two demos that were not "Representative of the final product" i don't think is too much if someone at this point wants and asks to know more.

Cd projekt red don't do games for charity they do games to sell them.

Said that i would like to see those roleplay elements we were told about instead to have another celebrity on the podium but with the rumors we are having about the upcoming E3 i won't count on that.

 

[SigilFey]

Just dropping this over here. The moment someone want to propose you a sale you are "Entitled" to demand more information about the product.

Since the game was already delayed and all we know is basic stuff or infos that comes in two demos that were not "Representative of the final product" i don't think is too much if someone at this point wants and asks to know more.

Cd projekt red don't do games for charity they do games to sell them.

Said that i would like to see those roleplay elements we were told about instead to have another celebrity on the podium but with the rumors we are having about the upcoming E3 i won't count on that.

I would say, yes, players are entitled to ask. Absolutely no problem there -- that's part of making an educated purchase.

But the seller is not required to answer that question. Nor are they required to provide answers in any specific time-frame. It is perfectly fine for the seller to say: "We don't have anything available at this point." No issue there, either.

Ultimately, it is the buyer's responsibility to decide whether they want to take a risk, wait, or walk. Nothing about any product is finalized until the product is actually released on the market. It is then and only then when people will know exactly what the game will entail, how it will work, etc.

 

[Mebrilia]

I would say, yes, players are entitled to ask. Absolutely no problem there -- that's part of making an educated purchase.

But the seller is not required to answer that question. Nor are they required to provide answers in any specific time-frame. It is perfectly fine for the seller to say: "We don't have anything available at this point." No issue there, either.

Ultimately, it is the buyer's responsibility to decide whether they want to take a risk, wait, or walk. Nothing about any product is finalized until the product is actually released on the market. It is then and only then when people will know exactly what the game will entail, how it will work, etc.

Of course i could agree completely with you if this was the case of a game in development with a release date to be defined. But since we are already in the Preorder phase and all we seen is just demos subject to change i think is very much understandable if some people at this point demand to see things. After all the game will be released in a few months and again Preorders are already there.

I do hope we will get more gameplay that shows the open world and shows also those roleplay elements we discussed so much about.

 

[SigilFey]

Of course i could agree completely with you if this was the case of a game in development with a release date to be defined. But since we are already in the Preorder phase and all we seen is just demos subject to change i think is very much understandable if some people at this point demand to see things. After all the game will be released in a few months and again Preorders are already there.

I do hope we will get more gameplay that shows the open world and shows also those roleplay elements we discussed so much about.

It is up to the buyer if they want to pre-order based on the information they have. If they pre-order, and then they decide later that they don't care for the way the development went, or they aren't comfortable with the lack of info, they can return the order. If that's not possible, then it's a life lesson in buying things sight unseen.

Nothing -- absolutely nothing -- gives anyone the right to "demand" anything from anyone. It's perfectly fine to ask, but if the answer is "no", then that's the way it goes. The choice is exactly the same with or without additional information: whether to buy the product now, later, or not at all.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Nothing -- absolutely nothing -- gives anyone the right to "demand" anything from anyone. It's perfectly fine to ask, but if the answer is "no", then that's the way it goes.

Actually it depends on the product and on the country you are in.
For example if I buy an egg: in some country I have the right to know how the hens are kept, and if the seller doesn't want to tell me he can be sued for that.

 

[Draconifors]

Actually it depends on the product

It's clear he was talking about preordering games. You can't just pick a small part of a post and then quote it out of context to make a counter argument that has nothing to do with the context of the quoted post.

And he's right, too.

 

[Sardukhar]

and if the seller doesn't want to tell me he can be sued for that.

In what country?! Sued for not telling you? For a product you don't own yet? Good luck on that!

 

[Snowflakez]