Master Mirror: Most broken cards

[Alexander_Volgin]

In this topic I want to discuss most broken cards of the upcoming expansion, so that these cards will get addional balance pre launch.
The main sinners in my opinion are not those fancy french girls 'coup de grace' or latin exotic 'dies irae', despite their true cost should be 12 provisions. These cards break even during a single play at 10 provisions.

No, the main sinner is Amnesty. It's a hard counter to every engines deck. I would go as far as to say that It's an autowin against any NR decks, which run engines of any sort.
I will name just a few cards, Vysogota, Redanian Archer, Temarian drummer, Anna Strenger, botchling.

With a little bit of setup (1 ping) Amnesty can size the engine. Not only stealing a high provision card but also using it against you.
Control is already in a decent position against engines. Adding such a oppressive card is just beyound me. Atleast lock the unit that you seize. Make the same change to 'Enslave' leader ability. Engines deserve some love. Not even a single engine based NR deck can be said to be competitive in the current environement, where the meta isn't even control oriented.

 

[wonderboy870]

In this topic I want to discuss most broken cards of the upcoming expansion, so that these cards will get addional balance pre launch.
The main sinners in my opinion are not those fancy french girls 'coup de grace' or latin exotic 'dies irae', despite their true cost should be 12 provisions. These cards break even during a single play at 10 provisions.

No, the main sinner is Amnesty. It's a hard counter to every engines deck. I would go as far as to say that It's an autowin against any NR decks, which run engines of any sort.
I will name just a few cards, Vysogota, Redanian Archer, Temarian drummer, Anna Strenger, botchling.

With a little bit of setup (1 ping) Amnesty can size the engine. Not only stealing a high provision card but also using it against you.
Control is already in a decent position against engines. Adding such a oppressive card is just beyound me. Atleast lock the unit that you seize. Make the same change to 'Enslave' leader ability. Engines deserve some love. Not even a single engine based NR deck can be said to be competitive in the current environement, where the meta isn't even control oriented.

Your point about amnesty is well taken, but the possibility of brick is also very real. I would like the provisions to be 9 instead of 6. Still, NG is going to be insanely OP unless the other factions get some serious love in the remaining reveals.

 

[Rawls]

In this topic I want to discuss most broken cards

Double golden trebuchet.

of the upcoming expansion

Oh. Nevermind.

 

[Alexander_Volgin]

Double golden trebuchet.

Bartender, I want the same that guys is having.

 

[Rawls]

Bartender, I want the same that guys is having.

They were a thing in the very first phase of the closed beta. Philippa in the first iteration was also super broken.

 

[Barracuda88]

CDPR is out to make Enslave 6 great again with the Coup and the Amnesty. Personally, I can't decide which I hate more. Amnesty is a 6p Sweers and the Coup will cause double Roderick and double Jochim with Echo all over the place. The whole thing is ridiculous. It doesn't even matter what the other factions get, because I guarantee you it won't be this toxic.

 

[Draconifors]

Why is this in Community? Moving.

 

[cardgame-respecter]

I will name just a few cards, Vysogota

In all honesty that card deserves to get seized, its too juicy not to.

As some have pointed out, Sweers will sometimes brick it's not always a guarenteed value, and being greedy about it is not always the right play. Imagine ending up with one such card in short round 3 with no good target. Thats a loss. I like that card because it allows for more value on my tourney shaelmar.

 

[Sj8407]

In all honesty that card deserves to get seized, its too juicy not to.

As some have pointed out, Sweers will sometimes brick it's not always a guarenteed value, and being greedy about it is not always the right play. Imagine ending up with one such card in short round 3 with no good target. Thats a loss. I like that card because it allows for more value on my tourney shaelmar.

With all due respect but the saying about sweers as a brick is a bull. In hundreds of games with NR aginst NG there was only one time when opponent gets sweers to last 3 cards short round, I belive just by accident. In all other cases sweers is 9 for 8 + often engine. Definitely sieze mechanics is OP in compare to every other mechanics - boosts, pointslam, engines, lock or dmg - and or should be accessible to all factions or nerfed - maybe solution is a random unit sieze (like in MO succub with sieze) instead of siezing choosen unit - it will be a little more rng and more chances to protect units from it

 

[Alexander_Volgin]

With all due respect but the saying about sweers as a brick is a bull. In hundreds of games with NR aginst NG there was only one time when opponent gets sweets to last 3 cards short round, I belive just by accident. In all other cases sweets is 9 for 8 + often engine. Definitely sieze mechanics is OP in compare to every other mechanics - boosts, pointslam, engines, lock or dmg - and or should be accessible to all factions or nerfed - maybe solution is a random unit sieze (like in MO succub with sieze) instead of siezing choosen unit - it will be a little more rng and more chances to protect units from it

Please no more seize, dont make it more accessible to all factions .It's better just to rework seize so that it also locks the unit, requiring a purify from the opponent. Right now, its too cheap against any engine decks.

 

[Sj8407]

Please no more seize, dont make it more accessible to all factions .It's better just to rework seize so that it also locks the unit, requiring a purify from the opponent. Right now, its too cheap against any engine decks.

As I've said sieze is clearly OP to all other mechanics and it's rework could be very healthy for the game. Hoever the sieze exist for the long time in spite of many controversies around it, and it seems that it eI'll be even more supported with next expansion. Therefore I assume that it's pointless to argue for sieze rework any longer, and I am trying at least find ways to made it no as broken ability as is is now in NG and Syndycate.
BTW i think that the mechanics of sieze that is in vigo's muzzle (sieze+lock) even could be golden middle and good balance

Post automatically merged: Jun 14, 2020

I have another interesting observation about sieze. Mentioned vigos muzzle is for 12 provinsion soecial card to sieze of unit of 5 and lock, and in the meantime alzurs bolt is 5 provinsion for 5 points special removal of the same unit (both cards were introduced long before armor into the game (and shield? I guess but no sure) so it don't have anything to do with ability of muzzle to take armored unit). But these provisions clearly indicated that devs are aware of power of sieze mechanics (even with lock!) In compare to removal mechanic. But still in spite of that they are introdicing something as broken as amnesty. Why? I have no ide

 

[Y_A_M_A]

Unfortunately additional sieze probably will drop NR to the bottom of viable factions ( for me even at this moment NR engine decks fells slow and outdated In comparison to other factions ) I'm realy interested how devs. plan to revive NR with new cards.

 

[Pacifixer]

I don't think Amnesty will be a problem. It's just 6 for 6, 8 for 6 with Devotion, and it's matchup dependant. Seize is super strong mechanic and as every Gwent player ever already suggested - SEIZE SHOULD LOCK!, but IMO Amnesty will not be as broken as you think.

On the other hand, what concerns me is Echo, especially on red coin - huge burst with 0 commitment. Both 10prov Echo cards shoud get some serious nerfs, and i'm not talking about simple prov nerfs, but rather nerfs to the effects.

Another potentialy broken card is Ethereal - unstopable 3 point engine. I think he should transform only once, so that you can stop the combo if you kill the new one.

 

[Tyr117]

I don't think Amnesty will be a problem. It's just 6 for 6, 8 for 6 with Devotion, and it's matchup dependant. Seize is super strong mechanic and as every Gwent player ever already suggested - SEIZE SHOULD LOCK!, but IMO Amnesty will not be as broken as you think.

On the other hand, what concerns me is Echo, especially on red coin - huge burst with 0 commitment. Both 10prov Echo cards shoud get some serious nerfs, and i'm not talking about simple prov nerfs, but rather nerfs to the effects.

Another potentialy broken card is Ethereal - unstopable 3 point engine. I think he should transform only once, so that you can stop the combo if you kill the new one.

The value of Amnesty is okay, but it's removal and that is the problem, a removal card is supposed to have less value, Sieze on the other hand, not only removes, but also banishes, and takes that card for you, so if it's an engine, that is a lot of value loss for opponent, And, added to you which is the problem, so any Sieze card that plays according to it's provision, is extremely Overpowered, because even Damage Dealing Cards Don't and shouldn't play for their Prov because of the Removal Aspect of them. Sieze should lock in my opinion, even then, it would still be more valuable than other forms of Removal because it also banishes the card for the opponent, also sets a card for you that can be purified and used as an engine.

 

[Philido]

I don't think Amnesty will be a problem. It's just 6 for 6, 8 for 6 with Devotion, and it's matchup dependant. Seize is super strong mechanic and as every Gwent player ever already suggested - SEIZE SHOULD LOCK!, but IMO Amnesty will not be as broken as you think.

On the other hand, what concerns me is Echo, especially on red coin - huge burst with 0 commitment. Both 10prov Echo cards shoud get some serious nerfs, and i'm not talking about simple prov nerfs, but rather nerfs to the effects.

Another potentialy broken card is Ethereal - unstopable 3 point engine. I think he should transform only once, so that you can stop the combo if you kill the new one.

Yeah, making it like Kiki Warrior would be best.

Post automatically merged: Jun 14, 2020

I'm very scared of Devotion for Scoia'tael. They already have a tutor and don't need Decree, therefore this keyword will just be auto-include in the already strongest deck atm.

 

[Tyr117]

Yeah, making it like Kiki Warrior would be best.

Post automatically merged: Jun 14, 2020

I'm very scared of Devotion for Scoia'tael. They already have a tutor and don't need Decree, therefore this keyword will just be auto-include in the already strongest deck atm.

True, ST has devotion by default, and it's already op.

 

[Payus]

The value of Amnesty is okay, but it's removal and that is the problem, a removal card is supposed to have less value, Sieze on the other hand, not only removes, but also banishes, and takes that card for you, so if it's an engine, that is a lot of value loss for opponent, And, added to you which is the problem, so any Sieze card that plays according to it's provision, is extremely Overpowered, because even Damage Dealing Cards Don't and shouldn't play for their Prov because of the Removal Aspect of them. Sieze should lock in my opinion, even then, it would still be more valuable than other forms of Removal because it also banishes the card for the opponent, also sets a card for you that can be purified and used as an engine.

You forgot they can also Assire the Stolen unit(imagine Wild boar of the sea) or in bronze cases resurrect them with the new Offering card(killing a 1 that will most likely be a spy) or necromancy.

 

[quintivarium]

My concern with the expansion is not so much any single card but a general tendency that strongly favors broad rather than tall strategies. With an increase in seize, with rupture (which is really useful only on tall and engine units), with limitations with veil (very limited availability, inability to receive positive status), with symbiosis, with firesworn swarms, etc. I see a lot supporting spam, and with the echo cards so far, there is more support for broad strategy. Given tall and engine strategies are already weak, I think this is the opposite of how the game should move.

Why no status like loyal that prevents seize? Why no cards that counter or punish spawn? Why no “revenge” opportunities for unit destruction? We are very close to every meta deck, regardless of faction, using the same general strategy — create and augment mass quantities of individually low value units.

 

[Alexander_Volgin]

You forgot they can also Assire the Stolen unit(imagine Wild boar of the sea) or in bronze cases resurrect them with the new Offering card(killing a 1 that will most likely be a spy) or necromancy.

Offering card is neutral, with no devotion Amnesty can only sieze a spy. But yeah, it opens up for a pretty naughty play with Assire. That's atually a cool and strategic design perspective nonetheless.

 

[DRK3]

Another potentialy broken card is Ethereal - unstopable 3 point engine. I think he should transform only once, so that you can stop the combo if you kill the new one.

How exactly is Ethereal "unstoppable"? I had to check the card on playgwent to be sure, but its a 4pt unit, with no armor, shield or veil, how does that qualify as unstoppable?
Yes its a 3pt engine, but its not the first - at the top of my mind, SY's Saul with Max Hoard effect, immediately boosts to 7pt out of removal range... that is way more unstoppable.